Can you explain meatless Friday?

[planehopr]

My household is Catholic, I am not. However I am a defender of Catholics when I can because my feeling is that Catholics just want to follow their beliefs without interfering with or judging the beliefs of others.

My sister is a (non-denominational) Christian. While I love her, she says some of the most judgmental things. Her and other Christians seem to spend more of their time judging Catholics and others than they do actually following Jesus. This hypocracy drives me crazy. I know many many good Catholics and it never comes up where they walk around feeling they have to compare themselves to others, nor do they act as if other’s beliefs are threatening to them.

While I do not consider myself Christian, I like to find out from a biblical perspective answers to questions so that I can defend my family against rude and judgemental people, including other Christians.

Something that has come up is Meatless Friday. My household does not eat meat on Friday and on Tuesday as a promise to Saint Anthony our family saint. My sister thinks its silly that we don’t eat chicken or pork, but we’ll eat fish–which is actually a luxury in this economy. From a dietary and food pyramid standpoint there is zero difference between a chicken, a lobster, and tuna fish. My sister says if you aren’t going to eat meat, why eat fish? It breaths, it thinks, it walks, it eats.

Folks, I don’t know how to answer that. I tried looking it up and it would seem that part of the deal had to do with leveling the playing field from the rich and the poor and abstaining from beef and poultry because it was a luxury and sea food being poor people food was ok…kind of a way of giving up or fasting from luxury as a group of people…now beef is cheap, chicken is cheaper, and I can’t even afford nice seafood on regular days, yet for Friday meat fast its ok???

I would like to be able to defend what looks hypocritical to others. Can you straighten this up in my head?

 

[jmcrae]

I would like to be able to defend what looks hypocritical to others. Can you straighten this up in my head?

What we are to abstain from on Fridays is meat that contains (or normally would contain) blood - that is to say, in Latin, “Carne” - or warm-blooded meat. Since fish are cold-blooded, their meat is not “carne” and therefore, it is permitted on days of abstinence from “carne” (which is translated “meat” in English, usually).

It’s also important to point out that eating fish is not required on Fridays. A person would be observing Fridays very well simply by eating vegetables and pasta, as long as there were no warm-blooded meat added to them.

It is also permitted to eat meat products that don’t actually look or taste like meat (ask a three year old child, if you’re not sure - “Is this meat?” “No, it’s Jello.”) So even though Jello is a meat product, you can eat it on Fridays because it doesn’t look like meat.

It is also a myth that “fish on Fridays” was instituted to promote the fishing industry, since the rule is to abstain from warm-blooded meat, with no comment whatsoever about fish. I don’t know how the custom of eating fish on Fridays came about, but it is just that - a custom. No one is required to eat fish on Fridays.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Gracious, where do you live where 'beef is cheap and chicken cheaper?" I want to move there.

Here in central VA, beef is anywhere from $4 a pound for 73% ground beef to over $12 a pound for the nice Angus filet mignon. Chicken? Lucky if it’s under $2 a pound EVER. As for ground turkey, it’s more expensive than ground beef at $4.50 a pound. Meanwhile, most days you can find tuna fish on the 10 for $10 (meaning a dollar a can) and sardines similarly priced.

Yes, in ‘the olden days’ when kings ruled and peasants couldn’t even hunt ‘the king’s venison’ without being killed as poachers, it was cheaper to eat fish if one lived, as in England on an ISLAND where there were plenty of seas --or fresh water–available.

And there are still plenty of places where meat is more expensive than ‘meatless’ whether it means fish, eggs, cheese, tofu, or beans and rice.

And if you’re already a vegetarian or you really LIKE fish or, I suppose, if you live in some paradise where meat IS ‘much cheaper than seafood’, then since you aren’t already eating meat (vegetarian) or to satisfiy the requirement of penance (loving seafood) EAT SOMETHING ELSE THAT ISN"T MEAT.

I happen to detest fish so I do choke down the tuna. If I loved fish, I would not eat fish on Friday, I would limit myself to eggs (which I don’t like all that much and can get down only if they are scrambled, now and then) or to rice and beans, so I’d be abiding by the rule. The rule is NO MEAT. Fish IS allowed (the old rules go back to things being ‘warm blooded’ which was considered MEAT or cold blooded (fish is cold blooded, therefore not considered meat.) There is no law that you MUST eat fish INSTEAD of meat.

So you can reassure your sister that the big bad Catholic Church is not trying to force its people into eating expensive seafood instead of ‘cheap’ meat.

 

[planehopr]

Awesome replies…that makes a heck of a lot of sense to me. I like the idea that meat is something that has blood or warm blooded.

I can find chicken for .89 cents a pound. I can find nice roasts for 2.39 a pound…even tri tip and new york steaks for under $4 a pound on sale. Ground beef about $2-3 a pounds…this all seems cheap. I agree canned tuna is cheap, but Salmon here is like $12 a pound, Shrimp also expensive, lobster, halibut…I just can’t eat nice fish everyday.

We eat a lot of eggs, cheese, beans, veggies, pasta, cheese pizza…its never a problem to go meatless…but I see what you mean how people glom onto fish…and that was never even the point despite what some articles say.

Thank you for helping me. I will be looking forward to any other ideas or opinions that are offered.

Brian…

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

My household is Catholic, I am not. However I am a defender of Catholics when I can because my feeling is that Catholics just want to follow their beliefs without interfering with or judging the beliefs of others.

My sister is a (non-denominational) Christian. While I love her, she says some of the most judgmental things. Her and other Christians seem to spend more of their time judging Catholics and others than they do actually following Jesus. This hypocracy drives me crazy. I know many many good Catholics and it never comes up where they walk around feeling they have to compare themselves to others, nor do they act as if other’s beliefs are threatening to them.

While I do not consider myself Christian, I like to find out from a biblical perspective answers to questions so that I can defend my family against rude and judgemental people, including other Christians.

Something that has come up is Meatless Friday. My household does not eat meat on Friday and on Tuesday as a promise to Saint Anthony our family saint. My sister thinks its silly that we don’t eat chicken or pork, but we’ll eat fish–which is actually a luxury in this economy. From a dietary and food pyramid standpoint there is zero difference between a chicken, a lobster, and tuna fish. My sister says if you aren’t going to eat meat, why eat fish? It breaths, it thinks, it walks, it eats.

Folks, I don’t know how to answer that. I tried looking it up and it would seem that part of the deal had to do with leveling the playing field from the rich and the poor and abstaining from beef and poultry because it was a luxury and sea food being poor people food was ok…kind of a way of giving up or fasting from luxury as a group of people…now beef is cheap, chicken is cheaper, and I can’t even afford nice seafood on regular days, yet for Friday meat fast its ok???

I would like to be able to defend what looks hypocritical to others. Can you straighten this up in my head?

Old, very old tradition which is dying.
Most priests exhange it for not doing something that is bad for you or others, not smoking, doing good to others.
No big fuss about it. It is not the most important thing. Sdont start from there.

 

[saveusfromhell]

just one question, not sure what you mean, could you elaborate.

While I do not consider myself Christian, I like to find out from a biblical perspective answers to questions so that I can defend my family against rude and judgemental people, including other Christians

why do you not consider yourself christian

 

[saveusfromhell]

just one question, not sure what you mean, could you elaborate.

While I do not consider myself Christian, I like to find out from a biblical perspective answers to questions so that I can defend my family against rude and judgemental people, including other Christians

why do you not consider yourself Christian

 

[George_F]

Pfaffenhoffen,I have a question regarding this subject.
Wouldn’t this topic be in the category of the commandments of the Church
and also be applicable to the first commandment.

• Adoration of GOD -
  Sacrifice and Mortification of the body?

 

[IrishRush]

I think a very important aspect of meatless Fridays has been left out of the explanations I’ve seen here - my understanding is that as a Catholic I do this as a sort of penance and also as observation of Friday as the day Jesus was crucified and died for us. At least that’s the reason I choose to observe meatless Fridays.
There are also many people who stop what they’re doing to pray at 3 PM on Fridays.

 

[jmcrae]

I think a very important aspect of meatless Fridays has been left out of the explanations I’ve seen here - my understanding is that as a Catholic I do this as a sort of penance and also as observation of Friday as the day Jesus was crucified and died for us. At least that’s the reason I choose to observe meatless Fridays.
There are also many people who stop what they’re doing to pray at 3 PM on Fridays.

Yes, good points!

 

[planehopr]

just one question, not sure what you mean, could you elaborate.
why do you not consider yourself Christian

I do not believe Jesus died on the cross for our sins. I consider myself a christian sympathetic agnostic. Some days I even lean toward atheism.

I try to be a good person through. I try to be generous and compassionate. I try to do the right thing. The qualities attributed to Jesus I think everyone should strive toward whether they believe or not…certainly a great hero and role model.

 

[saveusfromhell]

I do not believe Jesus died on the cross for our sins. I consider myself a christian sympathetic agnostic. Some days I even lean toward atheism.

I try to be a good person through. I try to be generous and compassionate. I try to do the right thing. The qualities attributed to Jesus I think everyone should strive toward whether they believe or not…certainly a great hero and role model.

okay, to be honest i thought you were saying in you original post you were catholic but did not consider yourself christian.

God bless you on your road

 

[TimothyH]

I do not believe Jesus died on the cross for our sins. I consider myself a christian sympathetic agnostic. Some days I even lean toward atheism.

I try to be a good person through. I try to be generous and compassionate. I try to do the right thing. The qualities attributed to Jesus I think everyone should strive toward whether they believe or not…certainly a great hero and role model.

At some point however, you may be called to the question of who Jesus was.

He was a human being who claimed to be the promised Messiah of the Jews. He claimed to be God. He claimed that he could rise from the dead. He said that he had been and would be king of all creation for all eternity. He demanded that his followers give up everying, including their lives if asked, as a prerequisite to following him. Megalomania?

Jesus caused such a commotion in his day that in 70 AD, the Roman army marched into Jerusalem and leveled the place and killed 1.2 million people. Countless followers of Jesus, to this very day, have willingly and unwillingly given up their lives for his teaching. much of society, many governmental systems, and principals of right and wrong in the western world are based on the teachings of Jesus and these teachings have been used to justify wars which have cost millions of lives.

There is no room for Jesus the hero. There is no room for Jesus the role model. There is no room for Jesus the teacher, rabbi, or any other title you want to give him with the exception of two… Jesus is either the most evil megalomaniac who has ever walked the face of the earth, or he is God.

Once when Jesus was praying in solitude, and the disciples were with him, he asked them, “Who do the crowds say that I am?” They said in reply, “John the Baptist; others, Elijah; still others, ‘One of the ancient prophets has arisen.’” Then he said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” (Luke 9:18-20)

It is a question every human being is asked. Who is Jesus? Some say Jesus is God. Some say Jesus was a megalomaniac who is responsible for millions of deaths and the supression of human freedom and liberty. Some ignore the question. But there is no room for Jesus the teacher-hero-rabbi-good guy. It’s one or the other. Evil megalomaniac or God. There is no inbetween.

-Tim-

 

[Todd_Easton]

The article on “Abstinence (Food)” in the Catholic Encyclopedia describes the Biblical roots of the Catholic discipline of meatless Fridays.

Early Christians observed Wednesdays and Fridays as fast days. (Didache 8) The practice in the Catholic Latin rite has eased some through the centuries so that now most Fridays are just days of abstinence from meat, except Ash Wednesday and Good Friday which remain fast days and days of abstinence from meat.

 

[Crumpy]

I skimmed over the encyclopedia article and it overwhelmingly depicts pervasive legalism about the subject of abstinence.

That seems to me to largely miss the whole point of abstinence from meat being an action of the corporate body of the Church. If it has any purpose at all, it has to be to develop people’s self-control, whose obvious focus is to teach us how to avoid sinning.

It also focuses us on a spiritual law. If there’s any question about it, to me, it ought to focus on whether we need **one more ** law to govern our lives? But, again, the legalism is obvious not the focus of the practice. I suspect that is because it is such an easy rule or “law” to follow, that it helps us to practice discipline, especially toward improving the spirituality of our lives – doing good and avoiding evil. It gives us a 'kick start" for exercising self-control for obeying other of God’s laws.

As the Bible teaches, legalism and laws are for those who need them. When motivated by love, such a rule becomes an “easy yoke” to bear.

Obviously, the practice of abstinence from types of meat on Friday is also somewhat a public exercise of faith and gives us some practice for doing other, more substantial duties of our faith.

If there is any suffering involved in following this Church rule, it should also focus us on uniting our suffering to Christ’s, as scripture direct us – to make up in ourselves what is lacking in the suffering of Christ – which is an entirely separate subject.

It’s also curious that meatless days have been recommended for entirely secular “green” reasons.

There are also medical recommendations to eliminate meat (fish, “meat”, any animal product) from our diets – to adopt healthy lifestyles and reduce the incidence of heart disease. (reference: recent program on CNN by Dr. S. Gupta “the Last Heart Attack” where he touts the Esseltyne diet).

 

[Crumpy]

even if you already abstained from meat every day of the week, Friday would still be a special day to meditate on the Lord and the spiritual significance of abstinence.

 

[wicasa]

As was explained to me many years ago by a priest in an open discussion about the history of the church and its added expectations.

Historically there was a time when the Vatican was financially strapped. Do not remember the name of the Pope. What the Vatican had at the time was the largest fishing fleet in the area of Rome. A decision was made to institute a “meatless” Friday in order to stimulate income. At the same time it did provide the service of self-sacrifice. This decision ended up serving two purposes, one personlly religious and the second financial. A good catholic would buy their fish from the Vatican fishermen.

On several occasions I have run this by area priests and have never run into disagreement.

 

[jmcrae]

As was explained to me many years ago by a priest in an open discussion about the history of the church and its added expectations.

Of what religion was this priest?

Historically there was a time when the Vatican was financially strapped. Do not remember the name of the Pope. What the Vatican had at the time was the largest fishing fleet in the area of Rome. A decision was made to institute a “meatless” Friday in order to stimulate income. At the same time it did provide the service of self-sacrifice. This decision ended up serving two purposes, one personlly religious and the second financial. A good catholic would buy their fish from the Vatican fishermen.

On several occasions I have run this by area priests and have never run into disagreement.

Probably because not only is it not true, it doesn’t even make any sense.

First “meatless Friday” is, to go without meat. There is nothing about eating fish in the requirements. You can eat vegetables and bread all day long; nobody will bother you.

Since the word for “meat” in Latin (carne) refers only to warm-blooded meat, fish and other cold-blooded meat is permitted, but certainly not required.

Second, when the Vatican is strapped for cash, they don’t bother going into business of any kind - they just raise the taxes on the Dioceses, which in turn raise the taxes on the parishes. Parishes then do fundraisers of various kinds, but even in that case, they don’t go into business of any kind - they just send in the required amounts of money, and pray for rich parishioners.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

As was explained to me many years ago by a priest in an open discussion about the history of the church and its added expectations.

Historically there was a time when the Vatican was financially strapped. Do not remember the name of the Pope. What the Vatican had at the time was the largest fishing fleet in the area of Rome. A decision was made to institute a “meatless” Friday in order to stimulate income. At the same time it did provide the service of self-sacrifice. This decision ended up serving two purposes, one personlly religious and the second financial. A good catholic would buy their fish from the Vatican fishermen.

On several occasions I have run this by area priests and have never run into disagreement.

Maybe they were too busy laughing or they thought you were joking. Butseriously. . .

Even the smartest people sometimes get hold of wrong information and pass it on as ‘correct’, because they trust the person who told them. But this is a case where you were handed incorrect information. Now that you know, you can search for the correct information (believe me, it’s out there, but it’s better for you that you find it and not simply accept my word).

 

[LilyM]

Abstaining from meat has a real symbolic significance too.

Friday is the day Christ died, giving up his flesh and (warm) blood for us. So on Fridays we give up warm-blooded flesh for Him. Nice symmetry in doing so.