O
Ophoe
Guest
I’m not Catholic, but I attend a Catholic college (Franciscan University). I’m not closed to Catholicism, but I also feel I need to let the Lord, and not the opinions of people, be my guide. I’m pretty sure that’s the best way to go 
. I also struggle from anxiety–it hasn’t been diagnosed, but I have suspected both OCD and scrupulosity at times. Just as a background
One of my stumbling blocks running into Catholicism, both as a Christian trying to understand God’s truth, and as an anxious person, is the question of suffering–particularly redemptive suffering. The Catholic position on it has always troubled me, and I’m trying to figure out if maybe I’m misunderstanding it.
Every time a Catholic starts talking about “offering it up” or “redemptive suffering” or the suffering of one saint or another, I begin to feel anxious. It implies to me that as Christians, we are supposed to suffer, and that we are supposed to desire suffering, or at least see it as good. I keep getting this vibe (or apprehension?) that, if I seek to be happy and do not wish to suffer more than is natural, I am avoiding the truth and hence God’s will. Basically, I feel that I shouldn’t desire not to suffer.
I used to be afraid it was because I was afraid to suffer or to face the reality of suffering. I realize now that this isn’t the case at all. I most certainly can bear, with God’s help, the sufferings that come my way. I might fear them as such, but I don’t fear God and his love and I know that he will only send me what I can bear. I also trust that he will always bring about what is best for me, even in suffering. I certainly am aware of the reality of suffering, and though it may make me anxious sometimes, I do not seek to deny its reality.
I think I am realizing that what is bothering me is something different than all that. I have been raised to believe in (of course) a good, loving, omnipotent God who is compassionate and a refuge to us in trouble. I have always seen him as the antithesis to suffering—but not in an escapist way. It has helped me to trust and love him–to see him as a fortress and shield. I also believe he redeems suffering and that, sometimes, suffering is necessary to attain love’s purposes (as in Christ’s passion or a Christian’s martyrdom). But in my mind suffering and God’s will have remained distinct, no matter how powerfully he uses it to accomplish his will.
And yet the Catholics I have talked to almost seem to see suffering as good…or to believe that, basically, what seems unnatural to us (loving excessive suffering, in my mind–I think of the worst, such as being cut off from everything you love but God) is natural to God and the result of his supernatural work in us. But I simply can’t reconcile myself to the idea. Something feels dark about it. To accept suffering while patiently awaiting deliverance or redemption, I can do. To not fear suffering and to be thankful for God’s work even through it, I can do. Even to accept that sometimes suffering is simply part of our struggle toward God I can do. But to desire suffering, to see it as good or as defining to our Christian lives, I have a great deal of trouble with. If I were to believe that, my whole life’s focus would be different…I would no longer seek to be happy or to do what I love, because to me all of that would be a human desire and not a Godly one. In my interpretation, I would need to have no trouble giving up everything I love…not if it were necessary, but as a matter of course. That is, my basic desire not to lose/give up all the things I love (people especially) would be human and therefore false. I should readily do it with no regard to anything but sacrificial love.
But shouldn’t obeying God’s will, even if it’s hard, actually make us more human (in the good sense), more reasonable, more joyful, more stable, more alive, more integrated into life…and so on? I don’t say it will always mean happy circumstances–but if we were made to do God’s will, won’t it actually be more–not less–natural? If we say that because something is supernatural it can feel unnatural and yet be right, then how can we judge what is healthy and life-giving and what is dangerous? I have never yet run into something that gave me a “weird” sense like this that I have come to believe is actually right. Usually it has been my cue to know that I was going down the wrong path (usually led by anxiety)–not an infallible test of fact or falsehood, but a pretty reliable test as to the healthy or unhealthy spirit of an idea.
I’m not trying to suggest Catholic teaching is wrong–rather, I’m hoping that in my anxiety I have misinterpreted it. When I read back over this post, I do seem to be taking it much farther than anyone would need to, but I can’t seem to help it. My theology prof just told us that what looks like total self-donation in God looks like death in humans, and that therefore (as I understood him) Christians are called to something that seems unnatural but actually isn’t. I take that to mean suffering even to an apparently unnatural extent, and therefore also desire of suffering to an apparently unnatural extent. He mentioned that some very loving saints had terrible lives. I feel like he’s telling me that if I want to love like God (which presumably I should as a Christian) my whole life has to be defined by suffering. But common sense tells me that’s unhealthy. Isn’t there a place for a healthy desire to be happy and at peace? And can’t we appropriately face suffering without going to what seems to me to be extremes?
I’m sorry for how long and confusing this probably is. But that’s only because things that make me anxious are usually very complex and confused in my mind and I have a hard time sorting them out myself. I still am not sure I’ve completely explained it, but this will have to be good enough. Thanks for your patience…
. I also struggle from anxiety–it hasn’t been diagnosed, but I have suspected both OCD and scrupulosity at times. Just as a background One of my stumbling blocks running into Catholicism, both as a Christian trying to understand God’s truth, and as an anxious person, is the question of suffering–particularly redemptive suffering. The Catholic position on it has always troubled me, and I’m trying to figure out if maybe I’m misunderstanding it.
Every time a Catholic starts talking about “offering it up” or “redemptive suffering” or the suffering of one saint or another, I begin to feel anxious. It implies to me that as Christians, we are supposed to suffer, and that we are supposed to desire suffering, or at least see it as good. I keep getting this vibe (or apprehension?) that, if I seek to be happy and do not wish to suffer more than is natural, I am avoiding the truth and hence God’s will. Basically, I feel that I shouldn’t desire not to suffer.
I used to be afraid it was because I was afraid to suffer or to face the reality of suffering. I realize now that this isn’t the case at all. I most certainly can bear, with God’s help, the sufferings that come my way. I might fear them as such, but I don’t fear God and his love and I know that he will only send me what I can bear. I also trust that he will always bring about what is best for me, even in suffering. I certainly am aware of the reality of suffering, and though it may make me anxious sometimes, I do not seek to deny its reality.
I think I am realizing that what is bothering me is something different than all that. I have been raised to believe in (of course) a good, loving, omnipotent God who is compassionate and a refuge to us in trouble. I have always seen him as the antithesis to suffering—but not in an escapist way. It has helped me to trust and love him–to see him as a fortress and shield. I also believe he redeems suffering and that, sometimes, suffering is necessary to attain love’s purposes (as in Christ’s passion or a Christian’s martyrdom). But in my mind suffering and God’s will have remained distinct, no matter how powerfully he uses it to accomplish his will.
And yet the Catholics I have talked to almost seem to see suffering as good…or to believe that, basically, what seems unnatural to us (loving excessive suffering, in my mind–I think of the worst, such as being cut off from everything you love but God) is natural to God and the result of his supernatural work in us. But I simply can’t reconcile myself to the idea. Something feels dark about it. To accept suffering while patiently awaiting deliverance or redemption, I can do. To not fear suffering and to be thankful for God’s work even through it, I can do. Even to accept that sometimes suffering is simply part of our struggle toward God I can do. But to desire suffering, to see it as good or as defining to our Christian lives, I have a great deal of trouble with. If I were to believe that, my whole life’s focus would be different…I would no longer seek to be happy or to do what I love, because to me all of that would be a human desire and not a Godly one. In my interpretation, I would need to have no trouble giving up everything I love…not if it were necessary, but as a matter of course. That is, my basic desire not to lose/give up all the things I love (people especially) would be human and therefore false. I should readily do it with no regard to anything but sacrificial love.
But shouldn’t obeying God’s will, even if it’s hard, actually make us more human (in the good sense), more reasonable, more joyful, more stable, more alive, more integrated into life…and so on? I don’t say it will always mean happy circumstances–but if we were made to do God’s will, won’t it actually be more–not less–natural? If we say that because something is supernatural it can feel unnatural and yet be right, then how can we judge what is healthy and life-giving and what is dangerous? I have never yet run into something that gave me a “weird” sense like this that I have come to believe is actually right. Usually it has been my cue to know that I was going down the wrong path (usually led by anxiety)–not an infallible test of fact or falsehood, but a pretty reliable test as to the healthy or unhealthy spirit of an idea.
I’m not trying to suggest Catholic teaching is wrong–rather, I’m hoping that in my anxiety I have misinterpreted it. When I read back over this post, I do seem to be taking it much farther than anyone would need to, but I can’t seem to help it. My theology prof just told us that what looks like total self-donation in God looks like death in humans, and that therefore (as I understood him) Christians are called to something that seems unnatural but actually isn’t. I take that to mean suffering even to an apparently unnatural extent, and therefore also desire of suffering to an apparently unnatural extent. He mentioned that some very loving saints had terrible lives. I feel like he’s telling me that if I want to love like God (which presumably I should as a Christian) my whole life has to be defined by suffering. But common sense tells me that’s unhealthy. Isn’t there a place for a healthy desire to be happy and at peace? And can’t we appropriately face suffering without going to what seems to me to be extremes?
I’m sorry for how long and confusing this probably is. But that’s only because things that make me anxious are usually very complex and confused in my mind and I have a hard time sorting them out myself. I still am not sure I’ve completely explained it, but this will have to be good enough. Thanks for your patience…