Can you help me refute this?

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6glargento

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i encountered some anti-catholic on a different forum post this and i know it isnt true,can anyone help me refute this?
Alright. You tell me: If I have a glass of milk, can I drink it? You probably would say; sure. But if I put a few dropps of poison, will it be still good for me to drink? Of course not.
The Catholic Church put lots of ‘poison’ into Bible doctrine.
According to the Catholic church, – church tradition has the same authority, as the Bible. This is why they hold so many strange doctirnes that are not supported by the Bible.
But the Bible teaches that we must test everything by Scriputere, and not by church tradition.
The problem with the Catholic tradition is not only that it adds to the Bible’s teaching; it also directly contradicts the Bible.
Those who exalt their traditions to the level of Scripture, are condemned by the Word of God. (Mark 7:6-13)
One of the most important errors of the Catholic Church is, that salvation is not by faith alone and by God’s grace alone, but their so called salvation centers in the church, the pope and the sacraments. They say that the Lord Jesus purchased redemption and He delivered it to the Catholic Chruch to be distributed to men. This is not true.
I don’t know in what depth you know Bible doctrine, but this is plain abomination. Salvation is free for everybody who repents and asks Christ to save Him. But the Catholic plan of salvatioun is faith in Christ plus baptism plus continuing in the sacraments.
Then, if we look at the papacy, it is a total abomination. Biblically, the vicar of Christ is the Holy Spirit and not the pope.
Then the Catholic priesthood is a great error. Men go directly to God through the Lord Jesus, Who is the One (and only) Mediator between God and men." (1 Tim. 2:5)
The intrusion of a special priesthood between Christ and the believer is an unbiblical abomination.
The Lord Jesus is the only Priest, after the order of Melchizedek. (Hebrews 6:20) and the believer has all blessings in Christ.
Then look at the error of the sacraments.
But biblical salvation is received directly from God through faith in the Lord Jesus. (John 1:12), and many other Scriptures say the same thing.)
The church has no biblical authority to distribute salvation to men.
The Catholic Church has no biblical authority for adding to the ordinances Chrsit gave the church. (Matthew 15:9)
Then the error of the Mass.
Basically it means that Catholics do not put their faith in the once and for all finished sacrifice of the Lord Jesus, but they re-sacrifice Him over and over a few million times each day. It is written that without faith there cannot be salvation; we are saved by faith.
So, the Mass shows that they don’t believe that Christ’s substitutional death was once and for all, and that gives the Catholic church away.
There are many other errors, like Mariolatry, they worship her and pray to her, and they call her co-redemptis and co-intercessor, – by which they take away from Christ’s merit, and it is totally against that what the Bible teaches.
Their rosary, their purgatory, their confession of sins to a priest, and the idea that infants can be born again by the ceremony of baptism, etc… etc… are all unbiblical teachings of men, and not of God.
thanks for your help. btw im new around here, nice to meet all of you!

God Bless
 
That’s quite a handful. These are old, tired anti-catholic arguments we have heard over and over again, based 99% on misunderstanding and bias (or worse). I would suggest you look at the Library section of Catholic Answers for well documented and well argued counters for each of these, and pray for the conversion of this person and softening of his heart. Peace,

Matt
 
I’d refute it by handing him a copy of the Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I’d say “Read this five times. If it sinks in by then, come back to me with modified questions or accusations. Until you know what the Church teaches, you’re not qualified to criticize it. In fact, you clearly don’t understand the Bible, either. And by the way, I know for a fact your parents were related.”

Okay, maybe not that last bit, but you get the picture.

Basically, you’ve got to make up your mind if you want to try to reason with a guy who thinks he can criticize something he knows nothing about. It’d be like me going to NASA and telling them they’re doing it all wrong. If he wants to know what Catholics REALLY believe, great. If not, taunt him mercilessly about his revulsion to reason.
 
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6glargento:
According to the Catholic church, – church tradition has the same authority, as the Bible. This is why they hold so many strange doctirnes that are not supported by the Bible.
If you’re going to make statements like “According to the Catholic church”… please cite the reference to Church teaching. Normally an anti-Catholic does not know the actual Church teaching and is generally wrong when they state what the Church teaching is. Getting back to the Sole Bible debate, Scripture is fairly plain about what is and what isn’t written in the Bible.
drbo.org:
John 21, 25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written.
It says NOT everything is written.
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6glargento:
But the Bible teaches that we must test everything by Scriputere, and not by church tradition.
Absolutely incorrect. The Bible teachers the exact opposite. The Bible teaches that it is the Church which is the pillar of truth, not the Bible.
drbo.org:
1 Timothy 3 ,15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
 
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6glargento:
The problem with the Catholic tradition is not only that it adds to the Bible’s teaching; it also directly contradicts the Bible. Those who exalt their traditions to the level of Scripture, are condemned by the Word of God. (Mark 7:6-13)
Satan is the author of lies. This is a lie, let’s expose it and its author. Specifically what teaching directly contradicts the Bible?
drbo.org:
Mark 7,1 And there assembled together unto him the Pharisees and some of the scribes, coming from Jerusalem. 2 And when they had seen some of his disciples eat bread with common, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault. 3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews eat not without often washing their hands, holding the tradition of the ancients: 4 And when they come from the market, unless they be washed, they eat not: and many other things there are that have been delivered to them to observe, the washings of cups and of pots, and of brazen vessels, and of beds. 5 And the Pharisees and scribes asked him: Why do not thy disciples walk according to the tradition of the ancients, but they eat bread with common hands?
6 But he answering, said to them: Well did Isaias prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7 And in vain to they worship me, teaching doctrines and precepts of men. 8 For leaving the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men, the washing of pots and of cups: and many other things you do like to these. 9 And he said to them: Well do you make void the commandment of God, that you may keep your own tradition. 10 For Moses said: Honour thy father and thy mother; and He that shall curse father or mother, dying let him die.
drbo.org:
“Commandments of men”… The doctrines and commandments here reprehended are such as are either contrary to the law of God, (as that of neglecting parents, under pretence of giving to God,) or at least are frivolous, unprofitable, and no ways conducing to true piety, as that of often washing hands, etc., without regard to the purity of the heart. But as to the rules and ordinances of the holy church, touching fasts, festivals, etc., these are no ways repugnant to, but highly agreeable to God’s holy word, and all Christian piety: neither are they to be counted among the doctrines and commandments of men; because they proceed not from mere human authority; but from that which Christ has established in his church; whose pastors he has commanded us to hear and obey, even as himself. St. Luke 10. 16; St. Matt. 18. 17.
 
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6glargento:
i encountered some anti-catholic on a different forum post this and i know it isnt true,can anyone help me refute this?

thanks for your help. btw im new around here, nice to meet all of you!

God Bless
The first thing you need to do is get your opponent to debate one issue at a time. He is using the shotgun tactic whereby he throws out a vast array of accusations in hopes that you won’t have the stamina (or time/post length) to go after them all, and so the damage will be done.

If this guy cares about truth, he should have no problem debating one topic at a time. When you get to that point, search Catholic.com, the Catholic Answers Forums, and the Catechism for what the Church really teaches and how to counter his claims.

Some other resources:
vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm
scripturecatholic.com/
geocities.com/thecatholicconvert/biblecheatsheet.html
geocities.com/thecatholicconvert/solascriptura21.html
 
I think you should start with his first point:
According to the Catholic church, – church tradition has the same authority, as the Bible. This is why they hold so many strange doctirnes that are not supported by the Bible.
But the Bible teaches that we must test everything by Scriputere, and not by church tradition.
So, ask him to begin with this point. IF the bible says that we must test by scripture then ask him to test the Bible itself with scripture. Then ask him to test the Book of Mormon with itself and the Koran with itself. See if the results are any different. Or is the only difference his willingness to believe one over the other.

Then, follow the links that everyone else has posted here especially the post by montanaman. 👍
 
Easy. 1 Timothy 3:15.

" I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in (A)the household of God, which is the (**(“http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Timothy 3:15;&version=49;#cen-NASB-29747B”))church of (C)the living God, the (D)pillar and support of the truth."

2 Thes. 3:6
"Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us. "

2 Thes. 2:15
"So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.
"

We could go on. This is very easy to refute. Think about this: without an authoritative interpreator of the Word(which is not always so easy to understand) we can reach any number of conclusions from any range in the spectrum, on any issue. This leads to relativism which is absurdity. That is the conclusion that I have reached after much prayer and study.

This dilemma is simply this: Either there is objectivley accurate(true) interpretation of Scripture, or there is not. If there is, who is the authoritative interpretor? If there is not, every person is equally authoritative in their interpretation of Scripture, which could very well lead to two people holding controversial, mutually exclusive or opposing views on any given passage or issue.(This is the case among Protestant denominations). In fact, without some authoritative interprator, how do we even know what orthodoxy is? With so many different itnerpretations the question is, “who, if any, is right?”

I think the most logical conclusion is that there is an Authoritative interpretor. Who is this interpretor? I believe that if you examined the evidence you would find that it is the Catholic Church.
 
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Anonymous_1:
I think the most logical conclusion is that there is an Authoritative interpretor. Who is this interpretor? I believe that if you examined the evidence you would find that it is the Catholic Church.
This is a point the “sola” folks don’t like, but, Who does Jesus promise this authority to? At the discourse of the Last Supper, His Apostles, the leadership of His Church, were present:
drbo.org:
John 14, 15 If you love me, keep my commandments.16 And I will ask the Father, and he shall give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you for ever. 17 The spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, nor knoweth him: but you shall know him; because he shall abide with you, and shall be in you.
He promises the leaders of His Church that the Holy Spirit shall remain with the Church forever. The Holy Spirit is the “spirit of truth”.
drbo.org comments:
16 “Paraclete”… That is, a comforter: or also an advocate; inasmuch as by inspiring prayer, he prays, as it were, in us, and pleads for us. ?16 “For ever”… Hence it is evident that this Spirit of Truth was not only promised to the persons of the apostles, but also to their successors through all generations.
drbo.org:
18 I will not leave you orphans, I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while: and the world seeth me no more. But you see me: because I live, and you shall live. 20 In that day you shall know, that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them; he it is that loveth me. And he that loveth me, shall be loved of my Father: and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22 Judas saith to him, not the Iscariot: Lord, how is it, that thou wilt manifest thyself to us, and not to the world?
Keep in context who He is addressing.
drbo.org:
23 Jesus answered, and said to him: If any one love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him, and will make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not, keepeth not my words. And the word which you have heard, is not mine; but the Father’s who sent me. 25 These things have I spoken to you, abiding with you.
drbo.org:
John 14,26 But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you.
He promises the leaders of His Church, not every individual Christian that the Holy Spirit shall teach them all things.
drbo.org comments:
26 “Teach you all things”… Here the Holy Ghost is promised to the apostles and their successors, particularly, in order to teach them all truth, and to preserve them from error.
 
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Anonymous_1:
1 Timothy 3:15. " I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in (A)the household of God, which is the (**(“http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Timothy 3:15;&version=49;#cen-NASB-29747B”))church of (C)the living God, the (D)pillar and support of the truth."
The Gospel of John explains why the pillar of truth is the Church, it’s the only organization guaranteed by Jesus Himself, to be led into all truth.
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Anonymous_1:
I think the most logical conclusion is that there is an Authoritative interpretor. Who is this interpretor? I believe that if you examined the evidence you would find that it is the Catholic Church.
drbo.org:
1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of graces, but the same Spirit; 5 And there are diversities of ministries, but the same Lord; 6 And there are diversities of operations, but the same God, who worketh all in all. 7 And the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man unto profit. 8 To one indeed, by the Spirit, is given the word of wisdom: and to another, the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit; 9 To another, faith in the same spirit; to another, the grace of healing in one Spirit; 10 To another, the working of miracles; to another, prophecy; to another, the discerning of spirits; to another, diverse kinds of tongues; to another, interpretation of speeches. 11 But all these things one and the same Spirit worketh, dividing to every one according as he will.
Certainly all Christians have within them the Holy Spirit, but, the only ones guaranteed the specific grace to be led to the truth, and to be taught all truth is His Church leadership.
 
Absolutely! I agree! Bring him here and have him cope with us!. We’ll have a BLAST!

Besides that, get a copy of the Catechism and read it. You will need to have a bible handy to cross-check things. That is quite honestly the best thing you can do.

Subrosa
 
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Tom:
Certainly all Christians have within them the Holy Spirit,
Are you sure about this? Has any of them been Confirmed?
Acts 8:
14 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, 15 who went down and prayed for them, that they might receive the holy Spirit, 16 for it had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid hands on them and they received the holy Spirit. 18 When Simon saw that the Spirit was conferred by the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money
According to the bible, they need the “laying on of hands” by a Bishop, the only person with the authority of the apostles.

Any thoughts?
Subrosa
 
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Subrosa:
Are you sure about this? Has any of them been Confirmed?According to the bible, they need the “laying on of hands” by a Bishop, the only person with the authority of the apostles.Any thoughts?Subrosa
Pretty sure, the Holy Spirit is not limited by man
drbo.org:
Luke 2:25 And behold there was a man in Jerusalem named Simeon, and this man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel; and the Holy Ghost was in him.
This man was neither Baptized nor confirmed.
drbo.org:
Luke 2:26 And he had received an answer from the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Christ of the Lord. 27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple. And when his parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him according to the custom of the law, 28 He also took him into his arms, and blessed God, and said: 29 Now thou dost dismiss thy servant, O Lord, according to thy word in peace; 30 Because my eyes have seen thy salvation,
 
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