M
Mercury3
Guest
Hello, I’m a bit confused regarding modesty and fashions. I’ve read articles by some traditionalist Catholics that claim that women should not wear pants, that women should not wear shirts that expose their arms, that women should not wear bathing suits … how much of this is motivated by actual Christian modesty and how much is clinging to former times? I realize that Catholic moral teachings are timeless, and I firmly oppose the modernist notion that what is right and wrong should change with customs and times, but this seems a bit ridiculous.
I understand the principle of modesty as laid out in the Catechism, and I can detect that it is deliberately ambiguous. When I read actual Catholic theology on modesty it is clear: that men or women should not dress in a way that calls attention to themselves as to provoke lust in others, and that men and women should be men and women, so no gender-bending.
But then I read that St. Padre Pio for example used to refuse confession to women wearing pants – I know we was doing this in the 50s and 60s, but traditionalists seem to think that this applies today. Personally, I’ve never thought that women’s pants deny femininity any more than a woman’s button-up blouse or t-shirt does. I can see that at his time, pants may have been a gender-bending phenomenon – my great grandmother would have probably also rejected it.
I’m confused becuase I see nothing wrong with women wearing pants or swimsuits, as long as these things are not worn with the intention of enticing men or with the intention of pushing gender boundaries. But isn’t St. Pio’s opinion something to consider?
My wife, for example, dresses modestly by today’s standards … not necessarily out of devotion, but she just finds immodest stuff tasteless. She wears jeans all the time, which have a feminine cut. Some may say this is immodest. At the pool and on the beach, she wears a bikini, but the way it is cut is nice-looking, but not meant to knock out the guys. For her it’s comfortable and she wants to get a nice tan.
So how much is truly morally relevant? Should we follow the old maxim of ‘the degree of mortal sin seems to increase with the degree of flesh exposed?’ If I didn’t respect the holiness of some of the people who have said such things, I’d find it laughable. How does something like that even apply when we’re dealing with cultures where even nudity is not necessarily a sexual issue? But if we follow the official teaching of the Church, which is that modesty is in intention and conditioned by culture, are we not then disregarding hundreds of years of Catholic tradition and the opinions of great saints?
I understand the principle of modesty as laid out in the Catechism, and I can detect that it is deliberately ambiguous. When I read actual Catholic theology on modesty it is clear: that men or women should not dress in a way that calls attention to themselves as to provoke lust in others, and that men and women should be men and women, so no gender-bending.
But then I read that St. Padre Pio for example used to refuse confession to women wearing pants – I know we was doing this in the 50s and 60s, but traditionalists seem to think that this applies today. Personally, I’ve never thought that women’s pants deny femininity any more than a woman’s button-up blouse or t-shirt does. I can see that at his time, pants may have been a gender-bending phenomenon – my great grandmother would have probably also rejected it.
I’m confused becuase I see nothing wrong with women wearing pants or swimsuits, as long as these things are not worn with the intention of enticing men or with the intention of pushing gender boundaries. But isn’t St. Pio’s opinion something to consider?
My wife, for example, dresses modestly by today’s standards … not necessarily out of devotion, but she just finds immodest stuff tasteless. She wears jeans all the time, which have a feminine cut. Some may say this is immodest. At the pool and on the beach, she wears a bikini, but the way it is cut is nice-looking, but not meant to knock out the guys. For her it’s comfortable and she wants to get a nice tan.
So how much is truly morally relevant? Should we follow the old maxim of ‘the degree of mortal sin seems to increase with the degree of flesh exposed?’ If I didn’t respect the holiness of some of the people who have said such things, I’d find it laughable. How does something like that even apply when we’re dealing with cultures where even nudity is not necessarily a sexual issue? But if we follow the official teaching of the Church, which is that modesty is in intention and conditioned by culture, are we not then disregarding hundreds of years of Catholic tradition and the opinions of great saints?