I don’t think you’ll find supernatural manifestations that are exclusively Catholic or Christian. Two reasons: one is that Satan, who was an angel before he rebelled, can imitate such things - remember that Pharoah’s magicians could replicate the signs that Moses gave. The other reason is good, not evil - the Holy Spirit is not limited by human divisions and definitions. Remember the scene in the New Testament where the Apostles had stopped someone who wasn’t one of their group but was performing exorcisms in Jesus’ name?
Mystical experiences, for one, a la those of many of the saints, seems to be largely a Catholic phenomena, as far as the reporting of them goes.
Surely you have heard of the Priests and Holy Men/Women of other religions and ancient civilsations who go into trances/ecstacy and prophecy, levitate,heal etc etc.
I’m going by the Catholic traditional usage-which refers to experiences specifically orchestrated by God-not merely supernatural.
I don’t know of a “traditional Catholic usage” that sounds like this definition.
Then I’d study more about it-perhaps starting with Catholic mystics such as Teresa of Avila. The Catholic Encyclopedia has some general info on it as well.
I didn’t say anything trumps it. But a supernatural experience could be demonic, so a supernatural experience alone isn’t necessarily one that would be respected, coveted, or sought after by a believer regardless of its profundity.
FH I was politely asking you to detail/define what you understand by “I’m going by the Catholic traditional usage”. I believe your understanding is somewhat subjective and spiritualist/new-age and in fact not traditional Catholic at all.
And this statement reinforces my observation. I don’t think you really understand what the Catholic Church traditionally means by “supernatural” at all.
And this:
To this:
And since all grace is supernatural-and the means to Catholic mystical experiences in any case-it makes no difference at this point to even bring this up:
Never mind, you obviously have more theology degrees than I and there is nothing I can help you with.
Try anyway-I’ve honestly not figured out what you’re meaning to say. How do you distinguish between mystical experiences? How is the union with God, sought after or in any case experienced by some Christians believers, similar to experiences in other religions? Are they all a matter of grace-are they supernatural or not?
Or let me pose a question: Was St Paul’s Damascus Road experience, especially the vision and revelation given, or Peter’s revelation in Matt 16:16, “subjective and spiritualist/new-age” because they, alone, experienced them?
