Can you prove Christianity?

[Hobgoblin]

You misunderstood my post. Of course I don’t deny that God has revealed himself. But the OP asks for proof. There is no proof in an absolute sense. There’s only evidence. God hasn’t revealed himself in such a way that can’t be doubted. You must decide to believe it. Thomas didn’t believe because of proof, he believed because he saw evidence and chose to accept it. Few have a Damascus Road type encounter. For most the available evidence is more mundane.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Still awaiting our OP. Simple question, what evidence are you seeking?

 

[steve-b]

You misunderstood my post. Of course I don’t deny that God has revealed himself. But the OP asks for proof. There is no proof in an absolute sense. There’s only evidence. God hasn’t revealed himself in such a way that can’t be doubted. You must decide to believe it. Thomas didn’t believe because of proof, he believed because he saw evidence and chose to accept it. Few have a Damascus Road type encounter. For most the available evidence is more mundane.

Isn’t that splitting hairs? Proof vs evidence? After all,

Proof =

• confirmation
• data
• demonstration
• information
• reason
• validation
• verification
• certification
• clincher
• corroboration

 

[rosejmj]

Well it seems there is some historical evidence on the existence and life of Jesus. But where is the evidence that he is God and that the Bible really is Divine Revelation and not just human word.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Again, what evidence would convince you?

You say where is “the evidence”. Define “the evidence”, please.

 

[steve-b]

Well it seems there is some historical evidence on the existence and life of Jesus. But where is the evidence that he is God and that the Bible really is Divine Revelation and not just human word.

Are you asking this playing devils advocate, ?

 

[lelinator]

You say where is “the evidence”. Define “the evidence”, please.

There’s the problem in a nutshell, definitive proof for the existence of God doesn’t exist.

It’s the same as if I asked you what evidence would convince you that God doesn’t exist.

Most likely there’s nothing that would convince you that God doesn’t exist. So asking for evidence either way is pointless. Which should then lead us to ask why some people believe in God, and some don’t. If it’s not the evidence…what is it?

 

[Hobgoblin]

Isn’t that splitting hairs? Proof vs evidence?

No, it’s not.

All you have is evidence. You choose to believe or not. If proof existed then there would be no doubt. You can prove a triangle’s sides add up to 180 degrees. It’s an indisputable fact. You can’t similarly prove Christianity. If you think it can please produce your proof and I’ll show you how easy it is to doubt it.

There’s plenty of evidence, but what convinces one person won’t convince another. And in the end there’s never certainty. You reach a point where you have enough evidence that you chose to believe.

 

[TheLittleLady]

I have found evidence that satisfies my intellect that God does exist. Even in times when my Faith lags, my reason is satisfied. What satisfies my reason may not satisfy someone else.

In my experience, when someone sits down and gives time to honestly consider what evidence would look like, would it be scientific evidence of a miracle? Scientific evidence of the resurrection? Scientific evidence of an apparition? Would personal accounts suffice? Are you more convinced by philosophy? Is the evidence you need more of a profound emotional experience?

 

[TheLittleLady]

Sometimes the place to begin is by considering what evidence do you have that your partner or spouse loves you? What convinced you to trust this person with your most vulnerable self?

 

[lelinator]

There’s plenty of evidence, but what convinces one person won’t convince another. And in the end there’s never certainty. You reach a point where you have enough evidence that you chose to believe.

This is an instance where I don’t think that “convince” is the right word to describe what causes someone to believe in God or not.

I don’t think that the process of believing something happens at a conscious level. But if it doesn’t, then by what rationale can it be said that someone chose to believe in God or not?

 

[rosejmj]

That is why someone might be agnostic or just take the side that makes the most sense to them

 

[Justin_Mary]

But where is the evidence that he is God and that the Bible really is Divine Revelation and not just human word.

I think if we look at human creations, human stories we see our heroes are nothing like Jesus, the “hero” in the bible. Jesus dies scorned, mocked, & hated. In any man made story his sacrifice would have been while performing a heroic act. Loved by all, appreciated in that moment.

Not Jesus. Those telling his story are persecuted & martyred for centuries.

& for the story to span 4 thousand years… no man can do that.

 

[Dan_Defender]

The leap pf faith required to transition from Old Testament to New is simply beyond comprehension to many, i.e. Judaism.

This is true. I know Orthodox Jews who wear black because they are still mourning the destruction of the Second Temple. But they will never accept that such destruction was the punishment by God predicted by Jesus.

 

[DarkLight]

Sometimes the place to begin is by considering what evidence do you have that your partner or spouse loves you? What convinced you to trust this person with your most vulnerable self?

I was going to say something similar.

People underestimate how much of our own lives, we don’t have the sort of “proof” that’s held up as ideal. We overvalue a somewhat naive version of the scientific method.

There’s really two big approaches to showing evidence for Christianity. Either historical or philosophical. The historical one looks at the evidence in the manner that we’d usually do with historical texts, taking into account the purpose of the texts and the literary norms of the time. The philosophical one approaches whether religious truths are the best explanation for aspects of reality that we already know about.

 

[Justin_Mary]

In my experience, when someone sits down and gives time to honestly consider what evidence would look like, would it be scientific evidence of a miracle? Scientific evidence of the resurrection? Scientific evidence of an apparition? Would personal accounts suffice? Are you more convinced by philosophy? Is the evidence you need more of a profound emotional experience?

I’ve never been one of those guys but isn’t there plenty of evidence out there already? St Juan Diego’s Tilma, the shroud of Turin, countless Eucharistic species, the body of St Catherine Laboure, the body of St Bernadette?

 

[Hobgoblin]

This is an instance where I don’t think that “ convince ” is the right word to describe what causes someone to believe in God or not.

Its ultimately a choice.

I don’t think that the process of believing something happens at a conscious level. But if it doesn’t, then by what rationale can it be said that someone chose to believe in God or not?

I wrestled with this for a long time. What causes belief? What constitutes a choice? It comes back to determinism and free will. If we live in a materialistic universe that is simply action/reaction, then there is no choice. The balls bounce the way the do and could never have bounced any other way. Your beliefs and choices could have been calculated before you were born. But if that’s true then the universe is absurd. This actually brought me to belief in God.

So, accepting that free will exists, I understand that I choose my beliefs. I still need ample persuasion that a given course is legitimate, but in the end I choose to go down that path.

 

[PickyPicky]

I’ve never been one of those guys but isn’t there plenty of evidence out there already? St Juan Diego’s Tilma, the shroud of Turin, countless Eucharistic species, the body of St Catherine Laboure, the body of St Bernadette?

Trouble is other religions have miracles, too.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

Isn’t that splitting hairs? Proof vs evidence?

No, it’s not.

All you have is evidence.

evidence is proof. No evidence no proof. That’s how it works.

Hobgoblin:

You choose to believe or not. If proof existed then there would be no doubt.

One chooses to believe proof or they don’t. It works both ways

Hobgoblin:

You can prove a triangle’s sides add up to 180 degrees. It’s an indisputable fact. You can’t similarly prove Christianity. If you think it can please produce your proof and I’ll show you how easy it is to doubt it.

The name Christianity, comes from Jesus the Christ, the one we believe in and therefore take the name from. He lived, He died, He resurrected from the dead, and He ascended back to heaven. All historical events. Recorded by eyewitnesses. One chooses to believe that or not.

Hobgoblin:

There’s plenty of evidence, but what convinces one person won’t convince another.

No argument there.

Hobgoblin:

And in the end there’s never certainty. You reach a point where you have enough evidence that you chose to believe.

Or one chooses not to believe the evidence.

 

[PickyPicky]

All historical events. Recorded by eyewitnesses

That’s questionable, you see.