Hey,
I understand why you hold the position you do on God, Bob Crowley. I respect that. As I said, I was sure you had a good reason. Regardless of why I might believe you saw what you saw, felt what you felt, etc., I understand these events in your life were very formative experiences, and respect that. While we are talking about dogma for the most part in this thread, I really for the most part have no deal with anyone as long as they give back to the world.
I disagree with your positions of God dogma wise, but DO agree with your philosophy and thought, I think.
CWBetts, I was referring to carbon dating not as the ONLY source of data but as an important one.
East Anglican, I have no issue with your response. I wish more people would think that way.
I’m getting better with using names instead of saying “guy”, huh?
What’s REALLY important in life is philosophy, I understand that, live by that, and value philosophy more than science. I know I will NEVER be a scientist, never prove anything, never directly observe science but in books. I know science is real, I mean, that’s not a very big leap of faith for me, and it shouldn’t be for most, but I live on Earth, and must above all else try to improve society, regardless of my beliefs in science or religion. I live life on EARTH, in a human society, not in space, watching the Universe from above.
So, this thread is about science and religion. Let’s keep the focus on that. Again, I COULD start a thread on philosophy if you’d like!
Peace!
PantheistsRule
I probably won’t make many more contributions to this post, as there are others quite capable of doing so. However I will comment on your attitude to “philosophy”. Early in my Christian life, I too thought Philosophy was important. In an academic sense I suppose it is. But as my old pastor commented, the Philosophy of Christians is summed up in “Christ”. And in that respect the foolishness of God is stronger than human wisdom.
Secondly if there is a stream of philosophy that is most closely related to Christianity, I think it would be “existentialism”, of which Soren Kierkegaard was the prime mover. After all most people basically “exist” when it is all said and done. And that’s about all. 300,000 people were wiped out with the tsunami in 2004, and most of them, to us, were completely unknown. But they existed. 2000 or so died in 9/11, and the same comment applies.
And within that existential framework, they make their decisions, including the realm of faith. Individually, one by one. And for most people, that is about the be and end all of philosophical relevance.
I’ll also give you one more little story of non-natural origin. I see a Catholic psychiatrist, basically for depression. It’s more psychotherapy now, or jaw-boning if you like. But I was on Prozac for 10 years, at his recommendation. However we also share similar spiritual experiences. I told him once of two occasions where a voice cut clear across my thoughts, once dealing with a crush I had on a particular lady, and the other dealing with my frustration in vocational satisfaction.
He then replied, “Did I tell you my little story?” He was sitting in his office just typing on his computer, when a voice just suddenly said “Go to Maclean!” No reason, no explanation, just 3 abrupt words. SInce no details were given, there wasn’t much he could do except note it. But about two months later he was at a town called Lismore in Northern New South Wales (Australia). He gets involved in family healing masses. On this occassion, an aboriginal woman came up to him afterwards and said, “I don’t want to sound silly, or interfere, but I seem be getting told you should go to Maclean.”
Now if an aboriginal woman (or any person for that matter) just came up to you out of the blue, and made a statement like that, you’d want a pretty good reason before you took any notice. But since he’d been PRIMED by the voice in the office two months before, he went. He ended up on an island in one of the rivers nearby which had been used in the early days of settlement as a lock-up for aboriginal prisoners. There seemed to be some spiritual business which had to be sorted out and that was the reason for his going.
The night my father died, which I told you about earlier, he at one stage said, “You’ll meet a pastor. You’ll think he’s great, but all he’ll do is discourage you even more.” I met the pastor about four years later. About 8 or nine years after that, I sat in the pastor’s office to have him say, “I owe you an apology. You needed encouragement, but all I’ve done is to discourage you even more!” I’d mentioned my father’s death night appearance to him a number of times, and I think he was bit dubious about it. But he got a shock when I told him about my father’s prediction referring specifically to him 12 or 13 years before.
There’s a spiritual world out there all right. One of the reasons the human race hardly gets a chance to settle down is the fact that the devil exists, and we’re caught in the battle between him and God. Thus from 1914 to today we have World War I, brief hiatus then Great Depression, World War II and the Cold War. The Wall comes down, and amidst the rejoicing and the New World Order predictions, there is a Gulf War and a Bosnian Conflict. They die away, and there’s 9/11 and the rise of Muslim fundamentalism.
So what’s next? I know this much - we’re not in control, even though we ***think ***we are.
) nothing, everything, no one, and everyone may not exist or exist. Anything you imagined to be real or unreal could potentially be the case, if you can’t entirely disprove it. I know the FSM is not likely real. You will agree with me, right? Well, the FSM is in essence “God”, if not the God you believe in. It is unfair to say that God is real and the FSM is not. Both are invisible, and unable to be tested.
