Cannabis

[Thoughtfulone]

Which scientific evidence is that then?

Here is a list of pretty much every myth regarding the use of marijuana and the scientific studies/evidence refuting them:

marijuanalibrary.org/Exposing_index_1095.html

These myths include but are not limited to:

CLAIM No. 4: MARIJUANA CAUSES LUNG DISEASE

CLAIM No. 5: MARIJUANA IMPAIRS IMMUNE SYSTEM FUNCTIONING

CLAIM No. 6: MARIJUANA HARMS SEXUAL MATURATION AND REPRODUCTION

CLAIM No. 7: MARIJUANA USE DURING PREGNANCY HARMS THE FETUS

CLAIM No. 8: MARIJUANA CAUSES BRAIN DAMAGE

CLAIM No. 9: MARIJUANA IS AN ADDICTIVE DRUG

CLAIM No.10: MARIJUANA-RELATED MEDICAL EMERGENCIES ARE INCREASING

CLAIM No.11: MARIJUANA PRODUCES AN AMOTIVATIONAL SYNDROME

CLAIM No.12: MARIJUANA IS A MAJOR CAUSE OF HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS

CLAIM No.13: MARIJUANA IS A “GATEWAY” TO THE USE OF OTHER DRUGS

 

[brotherjoe]

In my opinion we’ve gotten off track. I don’t believe CAF is intended for a medical debate about the merits and risks of one drug or another. Not that the debate lacks merit. Since the Church has not made some definitive pronouncement about this particular chemical then it seems that responsible Catholics ought to learn as much about it as we can if we consider its use, and parents should too. But the decision seems to remain with the individual. This is also true for alcohol, and our dietary decisions which also have moral implications.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

In my opinion we’ve gotten off track. I don’t believe CAF is intended for a medical debate about the merits and risks of one drug or another. Not that the debate lacks merit. Since the Church has not made some definitive pronouncement about this particular chemical then it seems that responsible Catholics ought to learn as much about it as we can if we consider its use, and parents should too. But the decision seems to remain with the individual. This is also true for alcohol, and our dietary decisions which also have moral implications.

But the Church has made definitive statements regarding following laws.

If the law is moral or morally neutral then all Catholics are bound to follow it.

 

[LemonAndLime]

I looked at those sources Thoughtful one, and they all agree with what we’ve been saying.

There is evidence is causes lung disease.

There is evidence it harms your ability to learn.

However, it’s hosted on a website which promotes the use of these drugs. Not exactly a neutral medium like a newspaper or a non-governmental health website. Also, the research is carried out by a sociologist and a pharmacologist. Not doctors. They are reviewing evidence that is already there, not carrying out their own research. Much of the research is old, and it could be argued that as its a review for a website which promotes the use of the drug they are deliberately being selective.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

I looked at those sources Thoughtful one, and they all agree with what we’ve been saying.

There is evidence is causes lung disease.

There is evidence it harms your ability to learn.

However, it’s hosted on a website which promotes the use of these drugs. Not exactly a neutral medium like a newspaper or a non-governmental health website. Also, the research is carried out by a sociologist and a pharmacologist. Not doctors. They are reviewing evidence that is already there, not carrying out their own research. Much of the research is old, and it could be argued that as its a review for a website which promotes the use of the drug they are deliberately being selective.

Marijuana and lung cancer:

“There are no epidemiological or aggregate clinical data suggesting that marijuana-only smokers develop lung cancer. However, since some bronchial cell changes appear to be pre-cancerous, an increased risk of cancer among frequent marijuana smokers is possible.”

Compare the above information to those who smoke tobacco. Also, smoking marijuana is quickly becoming a thing of the past and more and more people are relying on other means of administration, such as ingestion or vaporization, which cause no physical harm whatsoever.

You’re misinterpreting the data. There is only evidence that it causes any mental impairment in 200 TIMES the normal human dose, in monkeys, when they are exposed to it with a FACE MASK over their faces for hours and hours on end.
As far as the ability to learn goes, marijuana only inhibits it WHILE a person is under the influence. Do you have an easy time learning when you are drunk, or after having taken a Sudafed or NyQuil? Once a person is no longer under the influence of marijuana, their ability to transfer short-term knowledge to long-term memory returns to normal.

And yes, the actual site I gave you is a pro-marijuana site, but if you look up the footnotes, you will see that all the information is derived from actual scientific studies, some of them commissioned to actually prove the HARMFULNESS of marijuana, only to determine that it is not in fact harmful.

Sources cited include the Journal of American Medicine, Yale University, the new York State Journal of Medicine, The Journal of Clinical Oncology and the U.S. National Commission on Marijuana and Drug Abuse.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

Some unbiased sources for you:

Marijuana Cuts Lung Cancer Tumor Growth In Half, Study Shows

sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070417193338.htm

Pot Smoking Not Linked to Lung Cancer
Study Shows No Increased Risk for Even the Heaviest Marijuana Smokers
By Salynn Boyles
WebMD Health News Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD

webmd.com/lung-cancer/news/20060523/pot-smoking-not-linked-to-lung-cancer

Active Ingredient in Marijuana Kills Brain Cancer Cells

health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/cancer/articles/2009/04/01/active-ingredient-in-marijuana-kills-brain-cancer

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Some unbiased sources for you:

Marijuana Cuts Lung Cancer Tumor Growth In Half, Study Shows

sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070417193338.htm

Pot Smoking Not Linked to Lung Cancer
Study Shows No Increased Risk for Even the Heaviest Marijuana Smokers
By Salynn Boyles
WebMD Health News Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD

webmd.com/lung-cancer/news/20060523/pot-smoking-not-linked-to-lung-cancer

Active Ingredient in Marijuana Kills Brain Cancer Cells

health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/cancer/articles/2009/04/01/active-ingredient-in-marijuana-kills-brain-cancer

None of this matters.

As Catholics we are required to follow the laws of the country we live in unless those laws are morally evil. Restricting drug usage is not a moral evil, at worst it is morally neutral, but IMHO it is a moral good.

So no matter how many studies you show breaking the law is still a sinful act.

 

[LemonAndLime]

Some unbiased sources for you:

Marijuana Cuts Lung Cancer Tumor Growth In Half, Study Shows

sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070417193338.htm

Study was carried out in lab mice and rats, not humans. The compound they used was synthetically made. Next!

Pot Smoking Not Linked to Lung Cancer
Study Shows No Increased Risk for Even the Heaviest Marijuana Smokers
By Salynn Boyles
WebMD Health News Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD

webmd.com/lung-cancer/news/20060523/pot-smoking-not-linked-to-lung-cancer

Wow, the risk of lung cancer is lower if you smoke cannabis than ordinary cigarettes. Unfortunately, the arguments against the use of cannabis rarely mention lung cancer as a huge risk, therefore you might as well of told me that theres no link between cannabis and abortion.

Active Ingredient in Marijuana Kills Brain Cancer Cells

health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/cancer/articles/2009/04/01/active-ingredient-in-marijuana-kills-brain-cancer

Study carried out on mice again, using a synthetically made chemical which is a component of cannabis, not cannabis itself. Cannot be compared to humans.

 

[Musician]

I am a faithful and devout Catholic, but there is nothing wrong with using this plant. The only barrier is that it is illegal. If we were Dutch Catholics, there wouldn’t be a problem.
Marijuana has many useful qualities. It is insane for this Prohibition to be in place. It grows in the wild, for Pete’s sake.
And since God created everything and found it good, don’t you think He might’ve known in advance that people would try to smoke this stuff? It’s like a glass of wine - it makes you feel fairly pleasant.
I started smoking pot as a young teenager. I ended up as class salutatorian. In college, I was not only on the Dean’s Honor List, but also in an honor society. My IQ is at the genius level. (I’m not bragging, I’m just telling the truth, seriously.) One of my majors was sociology; I have carefully looked into many of these studies and examined the control groups, the collated data, and various factors as my sociology background dictates. Most of these studies tend to be weighted by who is sponsoring the study; what outcome is desired; and lots of biased hypotheses. I find most studies to be fundamentally flawed.
As far as contributing to the Mexican drug war, it is ethically wrong to purchase marijuana if violence surrounds the marijuana’s cultivation. However, I can’t really see the problem if it is domestically cultivated - except for the Church’s ban on illegal drugs.
The fact is, marijuana is one of the US’ largest crops. Americans spend billions on mj. Most Americans have tried it. Our prisons are overloaded with people who have been sent down for possession or a similar charge. What a waste. The DEA spends trillions of our tax dollars on trying, vainly, to shut supply and demand down. Imagine if we spent that money in more helpful channels.
What we should do is legalize it and tax it, thereby earning a large amount of revenue for the government. Take the thousands of narcotics officers off weed detail and put them to work doing something productive, for a change.
Prohibition didn’t work for alcohol, and it is fruitless to think it will work for marijuana.

 

[brotherjoe]

But the Church has made definitive statements regarding following laws.

If the law is moral or morally neutral then all Catholics are bound to follow it.

That is an entirely valid point, but I’m left to wonder, does that mean the Church says I sin every time I drive over the speed limit? Every time I don’t follow every rule and every policy? Every time I don’t do everything just how my boss says? Do I have to quit my job if my boss wants me to break an IRS regulation?

Then bury me in a fireman’s suit because I just can not live that way. It does ont strike me as a mature approach to our faith. And I just don’t get that impression from the gospels either.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

Study was carried out in lab mice and rats, not humans. The compound they used was synthetically made. Next!

Wow, the risk of lung cancer is lower if you smoke cannabis than ordinary cigarettes. Unfortunately, the arguments against the use of cannabis rarely mention lung cancer as a huge risk, therefore you might as well of told me that theres no link between cannabis and abortion.

Active Ingredient in Marijuana Kills Brain Cancer Cells

health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/cancer/articles/2009/04/01/active-ingredient-in-marijuana-kills-brain-cancer

Study carried out on mice again, using a synthetically made chemical which is a component of cannabis, not cannabis itself. Cannot be compared to humans.

The facts are there. They use mice in these studies because they tend to respond in the same way as humans to tests such as these. It can be reasonably assumed that the effects on humans will be very similar to those on mice.

Face it, you can’t argue against marijuana for health reasons because not only is it NOT harmful, it is probably MUCH more medicinal than we ever suspected. If you are against marijuana, you must be against alcohol, which is addictive and much more physically harmful than marijuana can ever be.

Saying it’s against the law is the only real argument.

 

[honestquestions]

If cannabis frees the mind, then it lets it loose into a prison.

lol, you know what I meant. Free in a sense that you are capable of thinking and asking deep questions. You are still sane to know right from wrong

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I am a faithful and devout Catholic, but there is nothing wrong with using this plant. The only barrier is that it is illegal. If we were Dutch Catholics, there wouldn’t be a problem.
Marijuana has many useful qualities. It is insane for this Prohibition to be in place. It grows in the wild, for Pete’s sake.
And since God created everything and found it good, don’t you think He might’ve known in advance that people would try to smoke this stuff?

Obviously your practice of smoking this has caused issues as your argument here makes no logical sense.

Hemlock grows naturally and as God created everything and found it good then would you eat a bunch of it?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

That is an entirely valid point, but I’m left to wonder, does that mean the Church says I sin every time I drive over the speed limit? Every time I don’t follow every rule and every policy? Every time I don’t do everything just how my boss says? Do I have to quit my job if my boss wants me to break an IRS regulation?

Yes you do, every time you break the law you sin. Now the gravity of the sin is a different matter.

The Church has made no definitive statements as to “rules” or what your “boss” says.

Your protestations here smell of an attempt at moral relativism.

 

[gonefishing]

And the pro-druggie thread in the Catholic forum. Why is this **** being shoved down everyone’s throat from every direction? Why are Catholics so fervently pro-life and then turn around and help deviants make sure there’s nothing here for the kids we do sentence to this planet?

“Love you, Jesus. Thanks for the pot.”

I’m sick of all the juvenile arguments in favor of having people all over the place getting high. Is this country not yet enough of a moral toilet to suit us all?

Where in the bible did Jesus get high? Where in the bible did Jesus tell us to smoke that plant? Did He not turn down the drugs of his day?

Years ago, I was pro-life. No more. We stripped love out of sex, shove sex into everything we can possibly think to shove it–and down everyone’s throats in the process, we giggle at sex, giggle at getting drunk, and giggle at getting high.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to responsibly do an irresponsible thing.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to legalize this drug without sending the message that it’s okay to get high.
It is IMPOSSIBLE, with all these states crying “we’re poor, we need the revenue,” to legalize this drug without sending the message that it’s okay to sell drugs as long as you really need the money. Hasn’t that been the battle cry of every ghetto kid selling this poison to YOUR kids?

Once you tell your kids it’s okay to get high, what they decide to get high on will be none of your damn business.

YES it does cause lung cancer and emphysema–human lungs are NOT designed to respirate any kind of smoke. And I have to walk around smelling this garbage because everyone wants to get high?

I busted my butt trying to raise a drug-free kid in this garbage country.

Look around. There is NOTHING here for any kid. Nothing at all. Thanks to US. And we’re going to make even more rot than there already is by legalizing drugs. Getting high is a bastard activity. The last time it was legal here, how many planes did we have in the air? Right. Zero. How many cars on the road? School buses? We can’t deal with the worthless drunks we have on the road now and we’re ready to compound that with a bunch of stoned drivers. Do you not encounter drivers every single day on your way to work who can’t seem to drive while sober???

I go to a website and there’s some dumb kid trying to convince other posters that him sitting around in his mother’s basement getting stoned somehow cures cancer. I’m sick of this garbage. If you’re telling your kids it’s okay to get high, your kids should be taken from you.

Complete 180 on abortion. Abortion needs to be every bit as easy to get as walking into a drugstore for a bottle of aspirin. And I post another thread about suicide and I get a bunch of mindless platitudes and wildly misinterpreted scripture that supposedly says I have to stay here. For what???

6 suicides in the bible–no condemned souls. That’s your answer. There is NO reason to stay here. None at all. Now while you’re sitting around with a bong in your mouth, come in here and tell me how much you love and obey Jesus.

 

[Musician]

Obviously your practice of smoking this has caused issues as your argument here makes no logical sense.

Hemlock grows naturally and as God created everything and found it good then would you eat a bunch of it?

I’m sorry…are you attempting at honest debate here, or are you by nature unkind by implying that I have “issues”?? How small-minded and petty of you, simply because I disagree with you.

Let us approach this matter using a system of analytical reasoning.
Since at least the 3rd millenium BC, and probably before, marijuana has been in use. As in, being smoked. Various artifacts such as pipes and so on have been discovered. Marijuana was not criminalized in the US until beginning in 1906, and even then in many states was sold openly until around the 1930s. All that is necessary is to dry the plant a bit and then insert it into a pipe. Not very complicated, really…and in humankind’s existence has rarely caused death, but rather, a pleasing sensation. (Strangely enough, a person can also use grapes to make a substance called “wine”, which when used, causes a similar effect to marijuana usage.)
I am not a historian, but I did check on the uses of hemlock since you asked, and for centuries, of course, it has been used as a poison. We have all no doubt heard about the death of Socrates, and it is commonly held that his death was by hemlock.
Therefore, (try and keep up here), an averagely intelligent person would conclude that:
(1) the use of marijuana is not deadly, but in fact pleasant; and
(2) the use of hemlock leads to death, and therefore would be shunned as a matter of common sense.

I hope this clears things up for you.

 

[gonefishing]

Obviously your practice of smoking this has caused issues as your argument here makes no logical sense.

Hemlock grows naturally and as God created everything and found it good then would you eat a bunch of it?

That’s right. It’s an argument of convenience. God put things on this earth with which we can do both good and bad. It’s that free will thing that humans NEVER should have been given. We’ve shown time and time again that we can’t be trusted with it. And good people think it’s okay to keep their mouths shut and the rot spreads. 30 MILLION evangelicals reportedly do NOT vote. In the process, they subject everyone else to this cancer. It’s rot.

All poisons come from plants. Arsenic. Hemlock.

This is nothing more than this same agenda pushing pro-druggie faction that is infecting every db and forum on the internet.(Edited) This country is rotted beyond repair.

 

[gonefishing]

Mindless arguments. How many cars and planes were in use in whatever BC year you’re talking about?

And the hemlock argument is VALID. Every single mindless druggie idiot says God gave us that plant and by virtue of it being here, we’re just so obviously supposed to smoke it. You’re surrounded by plants. Smoke them all.

 

[Musician]

And the pro-druggie thread in the Catholic forum. Why is this **** being shoved down everyone’s throat from every direction? Why are Catholics so fervently pro-life and then turn around and help deviants make sure there’s nothing here for the kids we do sentence to this planet?

“Love you, Jesus. Thanks for the pot.”

I’m sick of all the juvenile arguments in favor of having people all over the place getting high. Is this country not yet enough of a moral toilet to suit us all?

Where in the bible did Jesus get high? Where in the bible did Jesus tell us to smoke that plant? Did He not turn down the drugs of his day?

Years ago, I was pro-life. No more. We stripped love out of sex, shove sex into everything we can possibly think to shove it–and down everyone’s throats in the process, we giggle at sex, giggle at getting drunk, and giggle at getting high.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to responsibly do an irresponsible thing.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to legalize this drug without sending the message that it’s okay to get high.
It is IMPOSSIBLE, with all these states crying “we’re poor, we need the revenue,” to legalize this drug without sending the message that it’s okay to sell drugs as long as you really need the money. Hasn’t that been the battle cry of every ghetto kid selling this poison to YOUR kids?

Once you tell your kids it’s okay to get high, what they decide to get high on will be none of your damn business.

YES it does cause lung cancer and emphysema–human lungs are NOT designed to respirate any kind of smoke. And I have to walk around smelling this garbage because everyone wants to get high?

I busted my butt trying to raise a drug-free kid in this garbage country.

Look around. There is NOTHING here for any kid. Nothing at all. Thanks to US. And we’re going to make even more rot than there already is by legalizing drugs. Getting high is a bastard activity. The last time it was legal here, how many planes did we have in the air? Right. Zero. How many cars on the road? School buses? We can’t deal with the worthless drunks we have on the road now and we’re ready to compound that with a bunch of stoned drivers. Do you not encounter drivers every single day on your way to work who can’t seem to drive while sober???

I go to a website and there’s some dumb kid trying to convince other posters that him sitting around in his mother’s basement getting stoned somehow cures cancer. I’m sick of this garbage. If you’re telling your kids it’s okay to get high, your kids should be taken from you.

Complete 180 on abortion. Abortion needs to be every bit as easy to get as walking into a drugstore for a bottle of aspirin. And I post another thread about suicide and I get a bunch of mindless platitudes and wildly misinterpreted scripture that supposedly says I have to stay here. For what???

6 suicides in the bible–no condemned souls. That’s your answer. There is NO reason to stay here. None at all. Now while you’re sitting around with a bong in your mouth, come in here and tell me how much you love and obey Jesus.

Okay. I am sitting here WISHING I had a bong and yes, I love Jesus. And I try to obey the rules of the Church.
What is your point, exactly, besides wiping the froth from your mouth?

 

[gonefishing]

The moral decay in this country is already occurring at the speed of sound. We don’t need this. Get your pro-druggie garbage out of this forum.