Canon 825

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Ron,

If you had submitted your work to a Bishop’s Conference or the Holy See, do you feel they would have accepted or rejected your translation?? If I were on a Bishop’s Conference I would have accepted your work. The work you have done is really excellent. Also do you think that Canon 825 is a hinderence? Why or why not??
 
Ron_Conte said:
porthos11,

I think that you have misunderstood:
  1. the role of Canon Law in the spiritual life of the Church,
  2. the respective roles of the Pope and of the Bishops, in relation to one another and to the faithful
  3. the difference between the teaching authority and the temporal authority
  4. the limits of both the teaching authority and the temporal authority
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No, I think you have. It’s just like you. I throw you more context from Church documents proving my point and you don’t bother to address it.

Nope, I’m right, you’re wrong, and you’re only trying to make excuses for your lack of of acceptance of the Pope’s authority to govern temporal matters. When the Inquisition burned some of St. Teresa’s writings, she humbly submitted. She’s a saint not despite that, but because of it.

And in your true tradition, when you are called to defend your theses, you disregard the challenge. If this were a defense panel, you’d be flunked miserably.
 
porthos11 said:
No, I think you have. It’s just like you. I throw you more context from Church documents proving my point and you don’t bother to address it.

Nope, I’m right, you’re wrong, and you’re only trying to make excuses for lack of of acceptance of the Pope’s authority to govern temporal matters.
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I do agree with you much on this matter. The Nope, I’m right you’re wrong show lack of charity though
 
tobinatorstark said:
I do agree with you much on this matter. The Nope, I’m right you’re wrong show lack of charity though
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Tobin, Mr. Conte claims to be a “theologian”, which is an academic title. Such treatment is perfectly proper in an academic setting, and this is very much as academic as any, since he makes such a big deal of it. I will make no apologies for it, since I’m not attacking him personally, but rather his claims and qualifications.

And at the risk of sounding even more uncharitable, Mr. Conte is no theologian, as evidenced by his refusal to address the challenges posted to him, and this is not the first time. He does it on his own forums, and he did it before here. These are not difficult challenges. The title of “theologian” must be earned, and he hasn’t.

So no. I won’t treat you this way because although I disagree with much of your positions, especially with regards to the RSV-CE, you make no lofty claims for yourself.
 
porthos11 said:
Tobin, Mr. Conte claims to be a “theologian”, which is an academic title. Such treatment is perfectly proper in an academic setting, and this is very much as academic as any, since he makes such a big deal of it. I will make no apologies for it, since I’m not attacking him personally, but rather his claims and qualifications.

And at the risk of sounding even more uncharitable, Mr. Conte is no theologian, as evidenced by his refusal to address the challenges posted to him, and this is not the first time. He does it on his own forums, and he did it before here. These are not difficult challenges. The title of “theologian” must be earned, and he hasn’t.

So no. I won’t treat you this way because although I disagree with much of your positions, especially with regards to the RSV-CE, you make no lofty claims for yourself.
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I get what you are saying. I do belong to his forum and I will say that I don’t agree with everything he says. I do like his translation though. I feel that he should send his work on his translation because I feel it will be approved. As for the RSV-CE I just need a little help in appreciating it. If you can help with that I would be most grateful.
 
tobinatorstark said:
I get what you are saying. I do belong to his forum and I will say that I don’t agree with everything he says. I do like his translation though. I feel that he should send his work on his translation because I feel it will be approved. As for the RSV-CE I just need a little help in appreciating it. If you can help with that I would be most grateful.
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Fair enough. Appreciating Mr. Conte’s work is also fair enough. But for him to show a complete and utter disregard for Papal authority, even on temporal matters flies in the face of the documents of the Council, as you saw above, the power of the keys, and the supremacy of Papal authority. You saw the quote from the Apostolic Constitution. You saw his and my quote from Lumen Gentium.

The thing is, even temporal things that have the force of law have just that, the force of law. That’s how things like the seal of Confession, priestly celibacy in the Latin Church, and penalties such as excommunication derive their force. They are temporal things, but they are binding precisely because of the authority that promulgated them. One may not agree with them, but one always assents to them.
 
tobinatorstark said:
If you had submitted your work to a Bishop’s Conference or the Holy See, do you feel they would have accepted or rejected your translation?? If I were on a Bishop’s Conference I would have accepted your work. The work you have done is really excellent. Also do you think that Canon 825 is a hinderence? Why or why not??
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The Holy See does not review and approve of Bible translations; they can do so, but as far as I know they have not done so (since the new code of canon law).

The USCCB committee has so far only approved of Protestant translations, inclusive language translations, and loose translations. My translation is none of those things.

Also, my translation, as it is currently published, lacks annotations.

So, I have no reason to think that the committee would give their approval. Currently, the committee has taken a very liberal position toward translations of the Bible, in contradiction to the Vatican norms for Bible translation, which I followed.

If anyone is interested in the discussion, I’d like to talk about:
  1. the work of the committee and its usefulness or lack thereof to the faithful, and
  2. the role of the sensus fidelium in approving of Bible translations.
I don’t think we should treat 825 as merely a rule to be followed blindly. What is the usefulness of this process? How does it help or harm the faithful if the individual Bishops are prevented from approving of a translation, and the committee approves only of Protestant, loose, and inclusive-language versions?

The sensus fidelium has given a type of approval to these translations in English:

JB, NJB, NAB, RSV-CE (1, 2), Challoner.

But none of these are on the committee list. The editors of the RSV-CE2 asked the committee to review their new edition, and they declined.
 
Ron_Conte said:
I have no reason to think that the committee would give their approval.
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Dear Dr. Conte,

May I suggest an idea. You could get the text approved in one country and post it on a web server in that country, to avoid breaking canon law and subjecting yourself to the canonical penalties.

You could find a smaller country that uses English (at least to some extent, it need not be the official language). Most countries have made some modifications to the English language and if the country is small enough, they would be glad to have a translation into their own dialect. For example, the tiny island nation of Grenada probably has some peculiarities in how they speak english.

So you could fly down to one of those little islands, bring your degrees in linguistics and theology, and convince the local bishops conference to let you adapt your translation to their dialect of english. (This need not make many changes to the text). Then publish it online from their island nation.

Just an idea!
 
I do not have a doctorate, nor do I have a degree in linguistics.

Ron Conte
 
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