can't decide on a religion? choose none and go to heaven anyway?

[06convert]

You don’t choose God. God chooses you.

The Trinity. 3 essences of 1 being. God the father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

You are correct that at one point our Lord needed his “tushy wiped”. The infancy of a child is a sign of his humanity. Jesus was a man like us in every way except sin. He was to be born and raised as an example to mankind, and so he needed to face every temptation that a person would face from the moment of their birth. In order for Jesus to make a full sacrifice he needed to make a full commitment. I wouldn’t of meant as much if he came from heaven fully formed saying, “here are my hands and feet I’m ready”.

God took the bread and said to his friends, “this is my body”. He didn’t say this represents my body, or this is like my body, or use this as a symbol of my body.

Events like the last supper were recorded in the Bible by different people at different times, in different places. These people were there with Jesus. They were eye witnesses to this.

Keep faithful and keep reading and trying to learn more. I wasn’t religious, until one day. It hit me like a ton of bricks.

 

[SimonArizona]

i’ve spend the better part of 15 years seeking out a religion but find myself at a point where i have to concede that all of them are manmade and at the core of it too nonsensical to believe the almighty god of the universe ordained any of them.

judaism - i believe is a holdover racist ideology that centers on a persons lineage being the most important factor. at the end of days when the jewish messiah comes we will all bow down and serve the jews. i find this absurd and very antiquated all tribes at one point believed they were the best and would at some point rule over the world. most gave up on this notion and decided that living together is a better option. i respect judaism for its teachings on the oneness of god, but its exclusion of their fellow man i find very unappealing.

islam - well islam is o.k. except for the fact that they can’t even get the arguments against christianity right, i have a hard time believing that god couldn’t even square his argument correctly in a book he authored from cover to cover. that and it is insanely violent throughout the world i really don’t want to involved myself in that madness. and you can run from the verses as much as you would like but all the muslims running around cutting off jews heads and bombing night clubs are getting their justification from the koran.

christianity - where do i start, the trinity makes zero sense, jesus being a godman incarnate makes no sense. so jesus was 100% man and 100% god when only a baby? the almighty god of the universe had to have his tushy wiped? i don’t get it… the eucharist, i have to eat a piece of bread which is really jesus christ who is really the almighty god of the universe? the host is actually 100% god that i am to eat, i eat god. all of the intermixing of nonsense within the religion, santa claus, easter bunnies, yule logs, obviously the religion has been severely corrupted by pagan rights and rituals, and if paganism can invade christianity so much outwardly it’s hard for me to believe it hasn’t corrupted its doctrine. the first christians were not lighting candles and bowing before statues, this was a much later invention. i could go on all day…

o.k. so since that rant is over where does that leave me and the millions like me who believe in god, yet can’t stomach the dogma pushed down by organized religions?

now honestly think for a minute i am a man lost in the wilderness for 31 years and never heard of any of these faiths (yet i can still read and speak no problem for some reason). how would i as a reasonable logical thinking being accept any of them when they are ask you to believe things that are completely nonsensical? where does that leave us? shall we throw our judgment and conscience out the door and accept myths out of fear of hell?

Ah, laziness in your studies will bring these sort of conclusions.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Never give in to Pascal’s Wager. (If you don’t know what that is, look it up.) No one can be forced to believe in something they’ve already labeled as “illogical.” Accepting a myth you know is not true is a way of lying… not a good thing or a healthy way of living.

Don’t just research Judeo-Christian religions. Ask yourself, “What if we die believing in God, but we see Zeus in the sky?” There are hundreds of faiths out there. Research as many as you can, and if none fit your personal beliefs or values, then at least, you have a better understanding of your Religion-is-manmade discovery.

As I’ve said many times, Christianity is not for everyone.

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood

 

[ChristIsLord]

Ah, laziness in your studies will bring these sort of conclusions.

ahh this brings back memories, i can remember being a very arrogant young man positive i was right and every other faith was wrong. until i started actually getting the other sides view, if you have the stones listen to rabbi tovia singer thoroughly dismantle christianity using the old testament. your probably won’t…

anyway as i get older i get more comfortable with the fact that i don’t know nearly as much as i thought i did.

 

[SimonArizona]

ahh this brings back memories, i can remember being a very arrogant young man positive i was right and every other faith was wrong. until i started actually getting the other sides view, if you have the stones listen to rabbi tovia singer thoroughly dismantle christianity using the old testament. your probably won’t…

anyway as i get older i get more comfortable with the fact that i don’t know nearly as much as i thought i did.

I’m sorry your faith wasn’t genuine but was rather foolhardy. I’m sorry your study of other religions proved you weak in the faith instead of making you an overcomer for Christ Jesus. I recommend St. Athanasius On the Incarnation (4th century) to reinstate Our Lord over the whiles of Orthodox Jewery. Your objections are elmentary.

 

[Triciacat]

Dear ChristIsLord:

Asking God for guidance through prayer and contemplation with a sincere heart will help, as hamba2han suggested.

From the Christian perspective, I just finished reading a great book entitled, “The Jesus I Never Knew/ Disappointment With God” by Philip Yancey. It gives some thoughts on the “human” side of Jesus; how He was born during a time of strife in Israel, why he needed His “tushy” wiped (to quote your initial post ) and how and why He didn’t display the typical “Savior” behavior that the Jews expected. It offers suggestions concerning why God often appears to be distant, silent, and unresponsive, why He doesn’t intervene when asked, and why He “lets” bad things happen. It definitely offers some plausible answers to the questions that continually test a Christian’s faith.

The fact that you are on this forum is a great sign that you’re on your way to finding the answers you seek. Pray and persevere.

Peace of Christ!

 

[ChristIsLord]

I’m sorry your faith wasn’t genuine but was rather foolhardy. I’m sorry your study of other religions proved you weak in the faith instead of making you an overcomer for Christ Jesus. I recommend St. Athanasius On the Incarnation (4th century) to reinstate Our Lord over the whiles of Orthodox Jewery. Your objections are elmentary.

i’m fairly certain you’re not nearly as comfortable in your own skin as you try to come off as. you just lack either integrity or intestinal fortitude to ask yourself the tough questions.

do you honestly believe that every single person who is not a practicing catholic has faith that is “foolhardy”? ever think how stupid that is?

whatever i don’t care, you’re not really adding much to the discussion i’m in no mood to trade nonsense with you, you can go on ignore…

 

[SimonArizona]

-]i’m fairly certain you’re not nearly as comfortable in your own skin as you try to come off as. you just lack either integrity or intestinal fortitude to ask yourself the tough questions./-]

do you honestly believe that every single person who is not a practicing catholic has faith that is “foolhardy”? ever think how stupid that is? I did not say this, I said you thinking you were right and everyone else was wrong is foolhardy

whatever i don’t care, you’re not really adding much to the discussion i’m in no mood to trade nonsense with you, you can go on ignore…

The tough questions? You sir cannot answer the cake questions, as evidenced by your op

 

[mark_a]

i’ve spend the better part of 15 years seeking out a religion but find myself at a point where i have to concede that all of them are manmade and at the core of it too nonsensical to believe the almighty god of the universe ordained any of them.

judaism - i believe is a holdover racist ideology that centers on a persons lineage being the most important factor. at the end of days when the jewish messiah comes we will all bow down and serve the jews. i find this absurd and very antiquated all tribes at one point believed they were the best and would at some point rule over the world. most gave up on this notion and decided that living together is a better option. i respect judaism for its teachings on the oneness of god, but its exclusion of their fellow man i find very unappealing.

islam - well islam is o.k. except for the fact that they can’t even get the arguments against christianity right, i have a hard time believing that god couldn’t even square his argument correctly in a book he authored from cover to cover. that and it is insanely violent throughout the world i really don’t want to involved myself in that madness. and you can run from the verses as much as you would like but all the muslims running around cutting off jews heads and bombing night clubs are getting their justification from the koran.

christianity - where do i start, the trinity makes zero sense, jesus being a godman incarnate makes no sense. so jesus was 100% man and 100% god when only a baby? the almighty god of the universe had to have his tushy wiped? i don’t get it… the eucharist, i have to eat a piece of bread which is really jesus christ who is really the almighty god of the universe? the host is actually 100% god that i am to eat, i eat god. all of the intermixing of nonsense within the religion, santa claus, easter bunnies, yule logs, obviously the religion has been severely corrupted by pagan rights and rituals, and if paganism can invade christianity so much outwardly it’s hard for me to believe it hasn’t corrupted its doctrine. the first christians were not lighting candles and bowing before statues, this was a much later invention. i could go on all day…

o.k. so since that rant is over where does that leave me and the millions like me who believe in god, yet can’t stomach the dogma pushed down by organized religions?

now honestly think for a minute i am a man lost in the wilderness for 31 years and never heard of any of these faiths (yet i can still read and speak no problem for some reason). how would i as a reasonable logical thinking being accept any of them when they are ask you to believe things that are completely nonsensical? where does that leave us? shall we throw our judgment and conscience out the door and accept myths out of fear of hell?

Its simple. Since all religions require faith, choose the one with the most wonderful story.

See you at mass.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Its simple. Since all religions require faith, choose the one with the most wonderful story.

See you at mass.

The most wonderful story?

…Wow, people who believe in Greek mythology are still around?



Ironically Yours.

 

[mark_a]

The most wonderful story?

…Wow, people who believe in Greek mythology are still around?



Ironically Yours.

They had mass in greek mythology? Oh yea, its right there in Homer after the dead rise from their graves.

 

[dzheremi]

Of course you don’t know very much, ChristIsLord. Nobody knows as much as they think they do. That’s just part of being human.

Your stance reminds me of the one Bill Maher advances in his movie “Religulous”: He claims that religion provides its believers with absolute certainity, and that such absolutism is very dangerous and anyway wrong. It is much better to buy what Bill and others are peddling - that no one REALLY knows anything (this apparently does not apply to knowing with certainity that religion is wrong, though).

I would have bought that premise too, if it wasn’t for the fact that I already don’t believe I know much of anything, and yet I still believe in God. I see no contradiction in this, but maybe someone here can explain why I need to take an “either/or” stance. If religion were all about absolute, supposedly dispassionate certainity and the observable…well, it would be science then, wouldn’t it?

It seems strange to reject religion because it’s not providing you with what you can already get from other sources, but then I guess I don’t really understand the nature of your objection. All I’ve heard so far is “this doesn’t make imperical sense” (granted), “God wouldn’t do/say _____” (sounds like a standard Islamic complaint), “such-and-such writing from a Rabbi ‘destroys’ Christianity” (mazal tov), etc. It sounds like you’re willing to accept anyone else’s reasoning, so long as they aren’t Christian. Last time I checked, Rabbis and Imams and all others also have faith.

 

[mark_a]

Your stance reminds me of the one Bill Maher advances in his movie “Religulous”: He claims that religion provides its believers with absolute certainity, and that such absolutism is very dangerous and anyway wrong.

Maher stole this idea from an interview with a Rabbi I once saw. The Rabbi was, oddly enough, stating that no one should be 100% certain.

 

[dzheremi]

I don’t see how anyone can not be uncertain, so yes…this Rabbi is correct.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

i’ve spend the better part of 15 years seeking out a religion but find myself at a point where i have to concede that all of them are manmade and at the core of it too nonsensical to believe the almighty god of the universe ordained any of them…

… where does that leave me and the millions like me who believe in god, yet can’t stomach the dogma pushed down by organized religions?

It leaves you with the option of either re-checking the evidentiary support for your own conclusions, or stopping your search for truth altogether and deciding that a true revealed religion does not exist.

As a person who sounded much like you when I was in my 20s and 30s, I humbly suggest that you may be jumping to a conclusion without fairly considering all the evidence.

As for “stomaching” dogma - the real question to ask is not whether you can “stomach” it, but whether or not it is true. Because if you find that a doctrine is true, it should be “stomached” regardless of your personal preference on the matter. I had a hard time “stomaching” the Catholic Church’s moral teaching about birth control and sex outside of marriage in my younger, wilder days. My personal feelings on the matter did not make the teaching invalid. You should not attempt to determine “truth” based upon your own emotional responses or “feelings.” I wish you the best of luck and hope you will continue your search for truth.

Peace,
-Robert

 

[wina]

a good calvinist would simply say you’re predestined to hell probably, not part of the elect, too bad so sad better luck next time.

i’m not neccessarilly in the same boat as you as my belief in god, one god who is a personal god is unshaken. i pray everyday, i talk to god when frustrated, or happy, i thank god. this is no problem for me. god will never talk back, you will never have that damascus road experience (unless you should be commited). if that’s what you’re waiting for, you will be waiting a long time.

my problem is finding somewhere to hang my hat, it seems no religions really exhibit to me what a religion should be, pure, simple, logical, uncorrupted, sound teaching. i don’t believe god would require us to believe in the most unbelievable things under pain of hellfire for eternity. and the trinity and jesus, and resurrections, and the transubstantiation etc… are very difficult things to believe, practically unbelievable. so if it takes faith (in a religion not in god), why should i thrust my faith towards one or the other? that’s the connundrum folks like you and i have.

judaism and islam would be the frontrunners from their belief in one god, and the purity of their faith, there’s no outside corruption like you see rampant in christianity. you can’t have so much outwardly pagan and expect me to believe that no no really it isn’t corrupted at all. and the beliefs are simply so strange and illogical that not even the top christian scholars can get their heads around them. trinity, transubstantiation, resurrection etc… all “mysteries” sometimes that’s just not good enough to coax people to believe what you tell them.

First, I haven’t read all posts because I don’t have enough time because it’s my last thread before I log off.
But after reading your posts, it’s good for you that you still pray and you are no problem with it. So why don’t you pray and ask God to show you how can you hang your hat, to show you the right place to hang you hat?, He may not talk directly to you as you said but do you believe that God will answer it if you ask about it?
Meanwhile I will pray for you that you will find the truth.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

They had mass in greek mythology? Oh yea, its right there in Homer after the dead rise from their graves.

Sorry, but you said the words “wonderful story”…

 

[mark_a]

Sorry, but you said the words “wonderful story”…

I meant it. Is there a better one? Or did I miss the whole point of your post?

 

[Triciacat]

a good calvinist would simply say you’re predestined to hell probably, not part of the elect, too bad so sad better luck next time.

i’m not neccessarilly in the same boat as you as my belief in god, one god who is a personal god is unshaken. i pray everyday, i talk to god when frustrated, or happy, i thank god. this is no problem for me. This is fabulous! You are living your religion, which is more than some do! god will never talk back, you will never have that damascus road experience (unless you should be commited). if that’s what you’re waiting for, you will be waiting a long time. Actually, God does talk back. Not always in the way we expect or are used to, however.

my problem is finding somewhere to hang my hat, it seems no religions really exhibit to me what a religion should be, pure, simple, logical, uncorrupted, sound teaching. i don’t believe god would require us to believe in the most unbelievable things under pain of hellfire for eternity. and the trinity and jesus, and resurrections, and the transubstantiation etc… are very difficult things to believe, practically unbelievable. so if it takes faith (in a religion not in god), why should i thrust my faith towards one or the other? that’s the connundrum folks like you and i have.

judaism and islam would be the frontrunners from their belief in one god, and the purity of their faith, there’s no outside corruption like you see rampant in christianity. you can’t have so much outwardly pagan and expect me to believe that no no really it isn’t corrupted at all. and the beliefs are simply so strange and illogical that not even the top christian scholars can get their heads around them. trinity, transubstantiation, resurrection etc… all “mysteries” sometimes that’s just not good enough to coax people to believe what you tell them.

God’s ways are not our ways and His law is what it is. Thankfully, religion is more than a system of rules and regulations and making an appearance somewhere once a week. (“Some people are so heavenly-minded they are no earthly good.” - Mahalia Jackson) It’s about living the faith in your daily life and getting to know Jesus Christ and His message. The Church is made up of sinners (humanity, in other words) so once man gets his picky little fingers into things, it’s not always all good. God isn’t responsible for all the bad decisions humans make.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

I meant it. Is there a better one? Or did I miss the whole point of your post?

There are too many wonderful stories out there–fiction or not, Christian or not. In different religions, there are excellent stories, but I’m just saying this in an open-minded perspective. I don’t like being biased, and I very much dislike the idea of not knowing the stories of other faiths. :dts:

The stories in Christianity are good, of course, but if it’s all you know, they’re not really the most “wonderful stories.” But, if you pick Christian stories from a variety of stories you’re well-aware of from other religions, then, such a claim is valid. :yup:

Oh, and I certainly favor Greek myths. Nothing personally, but I suppose they don’t hold back… but that’s just me.

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood