Can't men and women be friends?

[often_lost]

I don’t know why I’m here, except that the internet is wonderfully anonymous. Sorry if this is the wrong place, for this, but it seemed like it might be right. I don’t know.

Anyway, I guess I’m just hoping for some encouragement, or something. I got really upset last night over something my dh said and I couldn’t even talk about it because I knew I was kind of overreacting, but was still really hurt.

So I’m happily married, and I have a very good friend, a man who is also happily married. He is sort of a mixture of mentor and brother to me. In other words, there is NOTHING weird between us. We have done stuff socially with our respective “other halves”, but honestly we get along best–and have the best conversations–one on one, and I think we both prefer that interaction. So when we do get together one on one, we’ve made sure that we’ve never done anything that would lead anyone to believe that there was anything inappropriate happening. (Whenever we get together it’s always in a very public place, etc.) We’re both sort of high visibility in our church, and wouldn’t want to give anyone the wrong impression.

So yesterday my dh made a comment that he meant as a joke, insinuating that there was something going on between us. And what’s worse, is that it came on the heels of a comment that someone else had made earlier in the day (again, in jest).

I don’t know why this is upsetting me so much, except that sometimes people say they’re joking, but a part of them believes it, and as bad as it would be for people to think that of me, I’m honestly more concerned about protecting his reputation, because he is so important to me. All I could think about last night was that if someone is joking about it to me to my face, what might people be saying behind my back? A part of me thinks that maybe I should just totally break ties with him, so that this doesn’t become an issue, but I really don’t want to do that. He is a good friend and I would miss him terribly.

 

[kage_ar]

From the Catechism:

scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2347.htm

**2347 **The virtue of chastity blossoms in friendship. It shows the disciple how to follow and imitate him who has chosen us as his friends, who has given himself totally to us and allows us to participate in his divine estate. Chastity is a promise of immortality.

Chastity is expressed notably in friendship with one’s neighbor. Whether it develops between persons of the same or opposite sex, friendship represents a great good for all. It leads to spiritual communion.

 

[often_lost]

From the Catechism:

scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2347.htm

**2347 **The virtue of chastity blossoms in friendship. It shows the disciple how to follow and imitate him who has chosen us as his friends, who has given himself totally to us and allows us to participate in his divine estate. Chastity is a promise of immortality.

Chastity is expressed notably in friendship with one’s neighbor. Whether it develops between persons of the same or opposite sex, friendship represents a great good for all. It leads to spiritual communion.

I’m glad to know that the church supports it, but that doesn’t stop those dangerous whispers. Truth is irrelevant once the gossip starts, it seems like people will automatically assume the worst.

 

[LongingForLight]

I’m glad to know that the church supports it, but that doesn’t stop those dangerous whispers. Truth is irrelevant once the gossip starts, it seems like people will automatically assume the worst.

If, as a culture, we avoid male / female friendships, we just add to the environment where those friendships are suspicious. If people really gossip about it, eventually it will come back on them and make them look stupid.

 

[Cajun_Girl]

I’m glad to know that the church supports it, but that doesn’t stop those dangerous whispers. Truth is irrelevant once the gossip starts, it seems like people will automatically assume the worst.

You’re defintely right. There may be people standing around, saying, “She looks like a nice Catholic lady, but we all know what she’s really like. That goes to show how hypocritical those Catholics really are.” Some people revel in this sort of thing because it gives them an excuse to live immorally. If even the good Catholics live like that, why should I be expected to live differently?

This is called scandal. The Church does require that we avoid it. For example, an umarried man and woman should never live together, no matter how chastely, because others may be led astray by these actions.

Are you causing scandal? That seems a little farfetched, since you say that you make certain that you are not in compromising situations. I’m interested in what the other posters have to say about that.

I love having male friends, so I feel your pain! But I had to give up one when I was married because my husband wasn’t comfortable with my friendship. Perhaps you need to have a serious talk with your husband. Is he truly comfortable with this relationship? Does he think his reputation is suffering, and does he care if it is? Maybe a compromise is in order. You may have to see your friend only with other people, for example.

I do think that having a male friend is not automatically inappropriate, just as long as you consider these issues!

 

[Rascalking]

Simply put-yes!

As long as your not “involved” with the other person and understand where it ends (make sure you do NOT get attracted to the other person—just put it out of your mind) there should be no problem!

 

[EmBee]

Before I got married I had many guy friends. I leaned on them a lot, and they on me. More of a sister-brother relationship than anything romantic. Some of them thought we were more than just friends and it was awkward. Others were just good friends. When I met my husband, he had mostly girl friends who were very open with him. I was jealous but not willing to give up my own friendships in turn for his (what a double standard!). For a while anyway. Eventually we both decided that for us frequent one-on-one interaction with friends of the opposite sex wasn’t something we were comfortable with. Especially if we were turning to those friends to vent feelings/frustrations. Personally (I don’t want this to sound judgey, but it might come off like that - not my intention), I feel like sharing my thoughts/feelings/problems with someone else can be very intimate and I don’t want to be intimate with any man other than my husband.

Whether my opinion matters or not is up to you. I think if you were 100% okay with your situation, a few off-hand comments would not have concerned you. Your situation absolutely can work if you, your husband, your friend and your friend’s wife all agree on and are happy with what the relationship is and what it is not. If any of you is in disagreement, I (my opinion again) think it’d be prudent to take a step back (which does not mean cutting off all contact). From the outside, your situation seems harmless, although I do wonder about:

but honestly we get along best–and have the best conversations–one on one, and I think we both prefer that interaction.

I can’t p(name removed by moderator)oint my exact discomfort with this, but in a general sense, the fact that the two of you prefer interacting one-on-one without your spouses present may create problems in the future if anything less than wonderful happens in either of your marriages. Maybe.

Sorry if any of this came off judgey or harsh … just my 2 cents

–

 

[TAllan]

If you really have to ask this question, ask your husband to get himself a woman for a friend, and see if that bucket holds water.

It is a slippery slope. I would avoid such a friendship.

 

[Cat]

I think it’s hard.

Sorry, I know that’s not the answer you want to hear.

I’ve been married 30 years, in case you’re wondering. I think that men and women who are “just friends” have to be EXTREMELY careful, and even if they are extremely careful, there will be people who assume the worst. Again, sorry, I know that’s not what you want to hear.

But the truth is, usually when a man and woman are together, it means romance or business. We’re all so used to seeing marriages fall apart (over half of the marriages in the U.S. end in divorce) that we have become weak and tend to believe bad things, not good.

One suggestion that I can make is ALWAYS make sure to dress in business attire when you are with each other. By that, I mean business suit with jacket for both him and you, business pumps for your feet (no bare toes) and complete business makeup (no red lipstick, no colored shadows, neutral blusher) for you. It would be a good idea to carry a portfolio or briefcase. I’m very serious about this–it may stave off rumors. Notice I said “may.” I believe that people will still spread rumors about you and him.

Finally, a warning. I don’t care if you think that NOTHING could ever possibly come of the friendship. Do not kid yourself and do not assume that you are different than all the other human beings. FACT: you are playing with FIRE, and if you are not extremely, painstakingly careful, it may burn you. It’s amazing how a friendship can turn into a sexual relationship. Like I said, be EXTREMELY CAREFUL! In fact, I personally would advise, Do not be with your male friend unless your husband is with you. That is the best safeguard against the weaknesses of others, and against your own and your friend’s human weaknesses.

Again, I apologize that this isn’t what you want to hear. It’s the truth, though.

 

[sanctamaria17]

I think with scandal, there comes a point where people have vicious minds.

I’ve had to face a lot of it with my best male friends. One of whom EVERYONE thought there was something going on with. It was weird!!!

Seriously, he’s like my big brother and he’s helped me through a lot. We’ll admit to everyone that we are dear friends and we think highly of each other, but we’re not together. It would be like dating my brother. Though he jokes that he has to approve of my future husband, along with my dad, uncle and brother (and they do Godfather impressions too, way to perpetuate stereotypes, boys ;-)). And it’s the joke that I’m his mamma .

Honestly, it’s friendship. Yes, you should be careful, but people need to get over themselves. Some of us women get on better with men than we do other women. I mean, yeah, we’ll save all the period/etc talk for our girlfriends, but it’s the boys in my life who understand my appreciation for rock music, Monty Python, and political debate Especially Monty Python…Sadly, most of the women in my life don’t understand…

 

[jwashu]

I’m glad to know that the church supports it, but that doesn’t stop those dangerous whispers. Truth is irrelevant once the gossip starts, it seems like people will automatically assume the worst.

Those whispers can also lead to the sin of scandal… There may be nothing going on but being seen together, in public or not, time after time will start people talking.

Why isn’t that person confiding in their spouse? It’s good to have friends of the opposite sex but too much time alone, especially if it becomes more than the time with your spouse (or even anywhere close) can eventually cause problems.

You say you are concerned about this man’s reputation… what about your husbands? I saw no mention of that…

You said you don’t like spending time together as couples… why? it seems you are saying you can’t be as open… is that because of his spouse or yours and if you take a step back what is that telling you?

I’m not one of the hard critics here but in this case I believe you are definitely sending the wrong message and possibly even confusing yourself a little.

Don’t get me wrong, there is NO DOUBT in my mind that your personal intentions are honorable but even the best intentions sometime go awry…

I’m not saying you shouldn’t be friends but your husband should be your best friend… not this other man… at least that is my opinion.

I have tons of girls who are friends, some former girlfriends and more… my wife knows them and we talk on FB and sometimes hang out but I always make sure my wife is with me. Not to just protect from scandal but also because I don’t want my wife worrying, even having to joke about it, that I might do something. I also don’t want to put myself in a situation that might eventually make me want to do something… again my intentions might start out noble but when 2 people spend a lot of time together sometimes feelings change, especially if they become emotionally dependent (Platonic of course) on each other.

Think of all the Dr / Nurse, Boss / Admin stuff that happens… do you think most of these start out as “I want to have an affair”? No they happen because then end up spending more time with this other person than with their spouse, they become dependent on them which sometimes (not usually but sometimes) leads to other feelings developing.

I would definitely tone down the relationship and try to do more together with your spouses.

Joe

 

[whatevergirl]

*Personally, I don’t see anything inherently wrong with married men and women being friends. That being said, I would not want to cause my husband any concern over it. My husband’s opinions matter to me than any male friends I could ever have in my life. My dh is very secure, not jealous, but if he were to start hinting or joking to a friendship I had going on, I think I would heed the underlying tone of seriousness, and probably not hang out so much with the male friend. While you and he know there is nothing going on, if it hurts your husband just one iota, that should be enough to not have such a serious friendship with another man.

I wouldn’t care what others think…only your husband’s opinions matter.

So, that’s how I feel about it. If a friendship causes a spouse to have doubts, and you know your spouse is rational and not a jealous type, then by all means, tone down such a friendship, because we should never want to do anything to cause our spouses undue stress.

Just my two cents. *

 

[manualman]

I certainly can’t speak for all humanity, but I’ll be blunt and say that I can’t have deep friendships with women and not have it affect my marriage. Intimacy is quite simply a continuum, not something with a defined beginning. It doesn’t START at hand holding or a kiss, it starts by sharing some of your soul with another.

In short, it’s Russian Roulette. You might pull the trigger and hit on a blnk chamber. But is it worth the risk? Why not have those connections with your spouse?

 

[musicality]

If I had to put myself in your situation (tough considering i’m an 18y/o male), I think my main concern would be what’s going on in my spouse’s mind. I would say something like, “When you joke about that, it makes me uncomfortable because I don’t want you to ever think that I love any other person more than you”
my :twocents:

 

[Morwenna]

Short answer: Not very often. :nope:

I’m not saying that it can’t happen, but there are major risks involved. Please re-read these wise posts (emphasis mine):

Eventually we both decided that for us frequent one-on-one interaction with friends of the opposite sex wasn’t something we were comfortable with. Especially if we were turning to those friends to vent feelings/frustrations. Personally (I don’t want this to sound judgey, but it might come off like that - not my intention), I feel like sharing my thoughts/feelings/problems with someone else can be very intimate and I don’t want to be intimate with any man other than my husband.

I think it’s hard.

Sorry, I know that’s not the answer you want to hear.

I’ve been married 30 years, in case you’re wondering. I think that men and women who are “just friends” have to be EXTREMELY careful, and even if they are extremely careful, there will be people who assume the worst. Again, sorry, I know that’s not what you want to hear.

Finally, a warning. I don’t care if you think that NOTHING could ever possibly come of the friendship. Do not kid yourself and do not assume that you are different than all the other human beings. FACT: you are playing with FIRE, and if you are not extremely, painstakingly careful, it may burn you. It’s amazing how a friendship can turn into a sexual relationship. Like I said, be EXTREMELY CAREFUL! In fact, I personally would advise, Do not be with your male friend unless your husband is with you. That is the best safeguard against the weaknesses of others, and against your own and your friend’s human weaknesses.

I certainly can’t speak for all humanity, but I’ll be blunt and say that I can’t have deep friendships with women and not have it affect my marriage. Intimacy is quite simply a continuum, not something with a defined beginning. It doesn’t START at hand holding or a kiss, it starts by sharing some of your soul with another.

In short, it’s Russian Roulette. You might pull the trigger and hit on a blnk chamber. But is it worth the risk? Why not have those connections with your spouse?

 

[rick43235]

I am very happily married and, at the same time, have had a few close friendships with women other than my wife over the years. When with these friends, I conduct myself as if my wife was in the room with us. (Which she sometimes is.) So yes, in my experience, men and women CAN be friends. Those who say they can’t might have had other experiences…or they might just have “issues.”

 

[kage_ar]

For those who feel strongly that men and women cannot be friends, why would Holy Mother Church encourage and praise the value of friendship between men and women? The Church would encourage something that is dangerous?

 

[roselily]

Short answer: Not very often. :nope:

I’m not saying that it can’t happen, but there are major risks involved. Please re-read these wise posts (emphasis mine):

Yes, I agree with you, Morwenna
but if one is single, why cannot make men or women friends?
Why?

 

[roselily]

Short answer: Not very often. :nope:

I’m not saying that it can’t happen, but there are major risks involved. Please re-read these wise posts (emphasis mine):

Ah, Morwenna, yes, if one married, better not make close friendship with …
just general friendship as brother and sister in God, pure friendship.

 

[Morwenna]

Yes, I agree with you, Morwenna
but if one is single, why cannot make men or women friends?
Why?

You are always kind, Roselily

I think that I wasn’t too clear earlier: in my post I was referring to married men & women. I think that single men & women can and should be friends.