Can't read the bible this way?

[Joeanna]

Yesterday at RCIA class one of the ladies that helps out said something really interesting…

She said “We as catholics, may own a bible and keep it in our house but we don’t need to come to our own understanding of it, we go to church a lot so there is no point in needing to read or come to any conclusion when its being spoken and interpreted for us anyway by the church.”

I wish I had raised my hand to asked her more questions about that but my husband and I were both kinda taken aback by the comment.

So I’ll ask you guys, is that true? Do we leave it up to the church to tell us what the bible is trying to say?

 

[Formosus]

We are allowed to read the bible and come up with interpretations of it. But our interpretations of scriptures are not infallible. Our interpretations of Scriptures can not contradict Church teaching and the Traditions handed down to us through the ages. Is what I would say at least. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable on matters of Scripture would be able to provide you a better answer.

 

[JReducation]

Yesterday at RCIA class one of the ladies that helps out said something really interesting…

She said “We as catholics, may own a bible and keep it in our house but we don’t need to come to our own understanding of it, we go to church a lot so there is no point in needing to read or come to any conclusion when its being spoken and interpreted for us anyway by the church.”

I wish I had raised my hand to asked her more questions about that but my husband and I were both kinda taken aback by the comment.

So I’ll ask you guys, is that true? Do we leave it up to the church to tell us what the bible is trying to say?

I’m not sure what the person was trying to say. The Church has always encouraged “lectio divina”, praying with the bible. Gradually, it became a practice found in religious houses, for many reasons. The most common one was that most people could not read.

Everyone is encouraged to read the bible and to pray with it.

What Famosus says is true. The bible is not of private interpretation. When you read the bible and you get message A, I read it and I get message B, the Church says that the message is C, the Church is right and we’re wrong.

The bible is without error, but human inerpretation is not. Only the Magisterium can infallibly interpret scripture.

This does not rule out the possibility of individual inspirations that the Holy Spirit may give us through the Word of God. This happens all the time. We can be inspired in a way that others are not. But the inspiration is valid only if it is consistent with Church teaching.

Maybe the person is trying to say that the Church teaches the meaning of the written Word at mass every Sunday, therefore you dont’ have to trouble yourself to study it. That’s not the best piece of advice. The homily is to break open the Word of God, but it’s not a theology class or a bible class. The preacher is not going to get into why this was written, who wrote it, when they wrote it, how it ties in to the third chapter in the fourth book of the OT. That you get in more formal studies.

Also, the homily is not praying with the scriptures. It’s preaching. The two are not the same thing.

By all means, read and pray with the scriptures. The Church encourages us to do so. For the purpose of prayer a simpler edition such as the NAB is a good edtion. For more academic study, the NRSV is a better edition. If you want one that is more poetic in older English, the DR is a beautiful edition.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Yesterday at RCIA class one of the ladies that helps out said something really interesting…

She said “We as catholics, may own a bible and keep it in our house but we don’t need to come to our own understanding of it, we go to church a lot so there is no point in needing to read or come to any conclusion when its being spoken and interpreted for us anyway by the church.”

I wish I had raised my hand to asked her more questions about that but my husband and I were both kinda taken aback by the comment.

So I’ll ask you guys, is that true? Do we leave it up to the church to tell us what the bible is trying to say?

Absolute rubbish! “Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ.” (St. Jerome).

St. John Chrysostom (344/354 -407 AD)

“This is what has ruined everything, your thinking that the reading of scripture is for monks only, when you need it more than they do. Those who are placed in the world, and who receive wounds every day have the most need of medicine. So, far worse even than not reading the scriptures is the idea that they are superfluous. Such things were invented by the devil.” (St. John’s Second Homily on Matthew)

 

[JRKH]

Yesterday at RCIA class one of the ladies that helps out said something really interesting…

She said “We as catholics, may own a bible and keep it in our house but we don’t need to come to our own understanding of it, we go to church a lot so there is no point in needing to read or come to any conclusion when its being spoken and interpreted for us anyway by the church.”

I wish I had raised my hand to asked her more questions about that but my husband and I were both kinda taken aback by the comment.

So I’ll ask you guys, is that true? Do we leave it up to the church to tell us what the bible is trying to say?

In answer to your question…Yes and No.
When we read the bible, what we pull out of it can, and often is, effected by our present situation. Various passages and verses can speak to us in different ways depending on what our specific needs are at that point in our lives and on our spiritual journey.
That said, The Church, in her mission and with he Christ granted Authority, guides our understanding of the Bible as a whole and what it teaches in the light of the entire deposit of faith.

The woman who said this at your RCIA class can speak for herself but not for Catholics as a whole. She might find that for her personally she does not feel the need to read the bible personally since she hears it at mass at least once a week, and she may find her encouragement through various personal devotions - but that is her personal choice and not the position of The Church.
I wonder - is she an older woman? I ask because this attitude would have been more prevelant in the Pre Vatican II Church than today.

Peace
James

 

[Edward_H]

Good answers.

There’s a certain unmentioned humility in this approach. This humility or docility rubs many people, particularly Americans the wrong way. We like to make our own interpretations, and often we’re arrogant about it. And when we don’t find someone with our interpretation and we can’t convince them otherwise, we leave and start our own Church or find one that lines up better with our beliefs.

I would rather struggle for humility (a constant battle) and realize that I am not going to be a Bible scholar, theologian, linguist, translator, semantist, father, husband, worker, all in my one little lifetime. My brain is not that big, my persistence is not that strong. But they are both strong enough to do what God wants of me.

My job is to know God to the extent that I can, to serve and love Him, by loving others. My vocation is lay. My job is to spread a Christian fragrance in my family, my neighborhood, and my workplace. Not to play one-upsman with amateur Bible scholars.

Also, there is a real potential that if people go beyond personal insights they get from the Bible…which might be excellent for their life, in discerning God’s will for them, for growing in holiness, or to learn about God. If you start blabbering on about your own interpretation - and it’s wrong - you can retard other person’s progress in their spiritual life.

So, as is the answer for so many Catholic questions, you need to think about others here. It’s not just “Me Jesus and the Bible”

 

[StTommyMore]

Absolute rubbish! “Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ.” (St. Jerome).

St. John Chrysostom (344/354 -407 AD)

“This is what has ruined everything, your thinking that the reading of scripture is for monks only, when you need it more than they do. Those who are placed in the world, and who receive wounds every day have the most need of medicine. So, far worse even than not reading the scriptures is the idea that they are superfluous. Such things were invented by the devil.” (St. John’s Second Homily on Matthew)

In 348 or 350 AD, St. Cyril also encouraged familiarity with the Scriptures. The Idea that we are not to have private devotion to the Word of God is absolutely without merit.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Pope St. Gregory I (died 604 AD)

“The Emperor of heaven, the Lord of men and of angels, ***has sent you His epistles for your life’s advantage—and yet you neglect to read them eagerly. Study them, I beg you, and meditate daily on the words of your Creator. ***Learn the heart of God in the words of God, that you may sigh more eagerly for things eternal, that your soul may be kindled with greater longings for heavenly joys.” (Letters, 5, 46)

St. Bernard of Clairvaux (1090-1153 AD)

“The person who thirsts for God eagerly studies and meditates on the inspired Word, knowing that there, he is certain to find the One for whom he thirsts.”

St. Teresa of Avila (1515 -1582 AD)

“all the harm that comes to the world comes from its not knowing the truths of Scripture in clarity and truth… To me it seemed I had always believed this, and that all the faithful believed it.”

The publisher of the Cologne [German] Bible [1480] writes:

“All Christians should read the Bible with piety and reverence, praying the Holy Ghost, who is the inspirer of the Scriptures, to enable them to understand . . . The learned should make use of the Latin translation of St. Jerome; but the unlearned and simple folk, whether laymen or clergy . . . should read the German translations now supplied, and thus arm themselves against the enemy of our salvation.”

The publisher of the Koberger Vulgate of 1477 stated:

“The Holy Scriptures excel all the learning of the world . . . All believers should watch zealously and exert themselves unremittingly to understand the contents of these most useful and exalted writings, and to retain them in the memory. Holy Scripture is that beautiful garden of Paradise in which the leaves of the commandments grow green, the branches of evangelical counsel sprout . . .”

Vatican II, Dei Verbum, no. 25-26:

“The sacred synod also earnestly and especially urges all the Christian faithful, especially Religious, to learn by frequent reading of the divine Scriptures the “excellent knowledge of Jesus Christ” (Phil. 3:8). “For ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ.”(5) Therefore, they should gladly put themselves in touch with the sacred text itself, whether it be through the liturgy, rich in the divine word, or through devotional reading, or through instructions suitable for the purpose and other aids which, in our time, with approval and active support of the shepherds of the Church, are commendably spread everywhere. And let them remember that prayer should accompany the reading of Sacred Scripture, so that God and man may talk together; for “we speak to Him when we pray; we hear Him when we read the divine saying.” (6)… In this way, therefore, through the reading and study of the sacred books “the word of God may spread rapidly and be glorified” (2 Thess. 3:1) and the treasure of revelation, entrusted to the Church, may more and more fill the hearts of men.”

Pope Benedict XVI:

“I would like to mention*** the spread of the ancient practice of Lectio divina or “spiritual reading” of Sacred Scripture.*** It consists in pouring over a biblical text for some time, reading it and rereading it, as it were, “ruminating” on it as the Fathers say and squeezing from it, so to speak, all its “juice”, so that it may nourish meditation and contemplation and, like water, succeed in irrigating life itself.” (General Audience Address, 6 Nov 2005)

“I would like in particular to recall and recommend the ancient tradition of Lectio divina: the diligent reading of Sacred Scripture accompanied by prayer brings about that intimate dialogue in which the person reading hears God who is speaking, and in praying, responds to him with trusting openness of heart (cf. Dei Verbum*, *n. 25). If it is effectively promoted, this practice will bring to the Church - I am convinced of it - a new spiritual springtime.” (Sept 2005 address, 40th Anniv. of Dei Verbum)

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Here’s one of the most beautiful quotes regarding our reading of Scripture from a saint and doctor of the Church…

St. Ephraim the Syriac, 4th century:
*Lord, who can grasp all the wealth of just one of your words. What we understand is much less than what we leave behind. Like thirsty people who drink from a fountain, for your word, Lord, has many shades of meaning, just as those who study it have many points of view. The Lord has colored his word with many hues, so that each person who studies it can see in it what he loves. He has hidden many treasures in his word, so that each of us is enriched as we meditate on it. The word of God is a tree of life that from all its parts offers you fruit that is blessed. It is like that rock that is open in the desert, which from all its parts gave forth a spiritual drink. He, who comes into contact with some share of its treasure, should not think that the only thing contained in the word is what he himself has found. He should realize that he has only been able to find that one thing from among many others. Nor, because only that one part has become his should he say that the word is void, empty, and look down on it. Because he could not exhaust it, he should give thanks for its riches. Be glad that you are overcome and do not be sad that it overcame you. The thirsty man rejoices when he drinks, he is not downcast because he cannot empty the fountain. Rather let the fountain quench your thirst, than have your thirst quench the fountain. Because if your thirst is quenched and the fountain is not exhausted, you can drink from it again whenever you are thirsty. But if, when your thirst is quenched, the fountain also is dried up, your victory will bode evil for you. So be grateful for what you have recieved and don’t grumble about the abundance left behind. What you have received and what you have reached is your share. What remains is your heritage. What at one time you are unable to receive, because of your weakness, you will be able to receive at other times, if you persevere. Do not have the presumption to try to take in one draft what cannot be taken in one draft. And do not abandon out of laziness what you may only consume little by little.

*[St. Ephraim, cited by Dr. Scott Hahn, *The End: A Study of the Book of Revelation, (St. Joseph Communications, audio series)]

 

[felsguy]

I see that a number of others have already answered your question while I was gathering my thoughts. Let me then just add mine as reinforcement.

I have to hope that either the lady in question miscommunicated whatever point she was trying to make or what you remember hearing is not quite what she said. Otherwise, in my opinion (currently an RCIA team member and formerly the interim parish RCIA director) her comment couldn’t be further from the truth.

We as Catholics are encouraged to make the reading of Scripture a an integral part of our spiritual life. Even a cursory reading of Vatican Council II’s Constitution on Divine Revelation or the US Catholic Catechism makes this very clear.

I would suggest that this is even more so for participants in RCIA. The Rite of Acceptance itself provides for the (optional) presentation of “a book containing the gospels.” (Sounds like a Bible to me.) And while the presentation is symbolic, I can’t imagine that the recipients are to use the book as nothing more than a paperweight.

Secondly, many if not most RCIA programs dismiss their catechumens after the homily at Sunday Mass to go to a different space to “break open the word”, to share and discuss what they heard in the Scripture readings for the day.

You say that the lady “helps out.” I assume from this that there is another person who directs your RCIA program. You might diplomatically approach this person and ask for a
“clarification,” not just for your sake but for the others who were present also.

 

[momor]

I attended Catholic grade school (Benedictine nuns) in the 60’s and had religion class every day for 8 years. I don’t ever once remember being encouraged to read the Bible either in class or as homework. We had religion books that we studied from and the Baltimore Catechisms for sacramental prep. Does the woman you mention come from this era? It would explain how she got this impression.

 

[ProVobis]

We like to make our own interpretations, and often we’re arrogant about it.

But that doesn’t make us any better or worse than the translators, who could easily set up their own agenda and work to fit translations into that agenda. Cardinal Arinze calls these iconoclasts. Remember translations are difficult and certain Greek and Latin passages into English are even tougher to put into an understandable sentence if at all possible.

What we need to decide is what standards to use and go from there. I agree with JR and go with how the Church (Pope, bishop, priest, deacon, doctor, qualified religious member, etc.) interprets the Greek or Latin for us, not what sounds nice to our ears. There’s such a thing as translation and there’s such a thing as explaining what it means or notations. Big difference when each word has a set of possible meanings.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

I was actually forced to read the Scriptures as a Catholic in the 60s, especially after I fought with my brothers.

I also remember my mom’s Bible (which she received in 1952) describing indulgences for prayerful reading of Scripture, which is still in the current Manual of Indulgences. While I can imagine some nuns or parents neglecting to encourage children to read the Scriptures, they did so contrary to the instuction of the Magisterium of the Roman Pontiff.

 

[William_Pitts]

Psa 119:9 How can a young man keep his way pure? By guarding it according to thy word.
Psa 119:11 I have laid up thy word in my heart, that I might not sin against thee.
Psa 119:18 Open my eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.
Psa 119:19 I am a sojourner on earth; hide not thy commandments from me! (RSV)

2Ti 2:15 Carefully study to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. (DR)

 

[JRKH]

I attended Catholic grade school (Benedictine nuns) in the 60’s and had religion class every day for 8 years. I don’t ever once remember being encouraged to read the Bible either in class or as homework. We had religion books that we studied from and the Baltimore Catechisms for sacramental prep. Does the woman you mention come from this era? It would explain how she got this impression.

I too attended Catholic grade school in the 60’s (Sisters of Notre Dame) and likewise was never required or encouraged to read the bible. More recently, when I ask my mom about this she likewise said that when she went to school they were not encouraged to read the Bible on their own. (she was also taught by SND nuns)

So - evidently there was this view at least in portions of the church years ago.

Peace
James

 

[ProVobis]

While I can imagine some nuns or parents neglecting to encourage children to read the Scriptures, they did so contrary to the instuction of the Magisterium of the Roman Pontiff.

Some like us were told it was a sin to read a non-Catholic Bible at the time. That they were on the Church’s Index of Forbidden Books or something.

 

[maryj]

I am going to bet that you heard her wrong. The first part of the statement is correct, we as catholics don’t have to come to our own understanding of scripture. I personally am very happy that I have His church to guide me. I say give her a call and ask her if you heard her correctly, and then go from there. May your journey be filled with God’s Grace.

 

[Edward_H]

But that doesn’t make us any better or worse than the translators, who could easily set up their own agenda and work to fit translations into that agenda. Cardinal Arinze calls these iconoclasts. Remember translations are difficult and certain Greek and Latin passages into English are even tougher to put into an understandable sentence if at all possible.

What we need to decide is what standards to use and go from there. I agree with JR and go with how the Church (Pope, bishop, priest, deacon, doctor, qualified religious member, etc.) interprets the Greek or Latin for us, not what sounds nice to our ears. There’s such a thing as translation and there’s such a thing as explaining what it means or notations. Big difference when each word has a set of possible meanings.

ProVobis,

But you’re missing the slow, collective, aggregate, and hierarchical point. It’s not just a translator, it’s the collective; it’s not just a linguist; it’s the collective of the Church’s linguists; it’s not just other scholars, and theologians, it’s the collective. And then there is the hierarchy, and the interpretation. It’s a slow slow careful process. The whole, the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit,

Any new development or deeper interpretation is bounded by 2000 years of guideposts and guardrails. It has to be consistent with what the Church said in the past. It may be deeper, but it’s not different.

 

[TimothyH]

I am going to bet that you heard her wrong. The first part of the statement is correct, we as catholics don’t have to come to our own understanding of scripture. I personally am very happy that I have His church to guide me. I say give her a call and ask her if you heard her correctly, and then go from there. May your journey be filled with God’s Grace.

I’m not feeling quite right with this statement, that we don’t have to come to our own understanding of scripture.

Are we not required to read and to try to understand? One cannot hope to understand the word of God by not reading it and relying on the Church to tell them what it means. There is much to be learned by reading scripture privately, as long as we understand that we are fallible in our understanding and intepreation and that the Church’s teaching is authoritative.

I think in defense of Catholicsims against sola scriptura, some of us to to far about private interpretation of scripture. The Bible is a gift from God to his Church and reading the Bible daily is a great grace. In the days before the printing press was invented and before most people could read, obedience to the Church was probably the end of the story. But now, with online commentaries and the works of the Church fathers available with overnight shipping, we really have no excuse for not reading and not understanding what the words mean.

Putting self-reliance on scripture and distain for the Church and her sacraments aside for a moment, the love for scripture which our Protestant brothers and sisters have is something we should emulate. You can tell the converted Protestants in my parish - they are the ones walking around with Bibles. Love for scripture is a gift which Protestants will bring to the Catholic Church when all this nonsese about different denominations stops and the Church finally reunites.

-Tim-

 

[ProVobis]

ProVobis,

But you’re missing the slow, collective, aggregate, and hierarchical point. It’s not just a translator, it’s the collective; it’s not just a linguist; it’s the collective of the Church’s linguists; it’s not just other scholars, and theologians, it’s the collective. And then there is the hierarchy, and the interpretation. It’s a slow slow careful process. The whole, the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit,

Any new development or deeper interpretation is bounded by 2000 years of guideposts and guardrails. It has to be consistent with what the Church said in the past. It may be deeper, but it’s not different.

The big challenge, as I see it, is to keep removing all the “contradictions” caused by the translators, new or old, collective or otherwise. Those have to be explained, no way around them. Someone mention connotations?