Can't receive

[JCPhoenix]

I would be very interested in being a fly on the wall in the lives of those who think that the priest should not do what he did.

Interestingly enough, those who are guilty of a certain “crime” are often very merciful in their “condemnation” of specific acts.

For example…if someone has arranged for their vehicle to be stolen, or their home to be burned, when asked what should happen to the thief or the arsonist, they usually become vague or say that they should get some probation, maybe some education.

Those who are innocent, or true victims, offer the idea that the guilty party recieve the actual just punishment for their crimes.

I have to ask if those who say that public figures such as Kerry, or people known to them who live in sin should not be denied the very body and blood of Christ are or have actually been guilty of the same sins themselves?

That priest is absolutely defending the very body and blood of our dear Savior, Jesus Christ. Why should he bleed more for the insult of the unworthy knowingly partaking? Why should the priest sin by offering the sacrament to those he KNOWS are not worthy?

This world has gone so far from understanding the great concept of personal responsibility. No one is responsible for anything. No one is guilty. Everyone is entitled to whatever they want.

We are a world, a country of spoiled brats, and what we are seeing through the media is a perpetual temper tantrum.

Let the little babies cry for their “toy.” Some things are not toys, and when they are burned by the fire of Hell they will learn that the lesson at the stove runs far more deeply than that blister on the skin. When they sin, that blister isn’t visible to anyone but God…and when the sinner donesn’t repent and change, the burning doesn’t stop. Ever.

That priest is not only saving himself the moral dilemma, he is saving that couple from eternal damnation…and how many souls who witness this interaction?

Jesus Christ is not a toy, he is not here for “free” and he does not need us to continue to beat him when he has already died from the abuse. It’s time ALL THE FAITHFUL stand up and condemn the moral degradation of our current counterparts.

Don’t let this priest stand alone–let’s make him a leader by standing behind and beside him in support.

 

[JimG]

JCPhoenix:

That priest is not only saving himself the moral dilemma, he is saving that couple from eternal damnation…

This is a point not often heard. Admonishing the sinner is one of the spiritual works of mercy.

The woman in question must think one of two things:
(a) that cohabiting with a man outside of wedlock is not a mortal sin; or
(b) that it is a mortal sin, but it’s OK to receive communion in a state of mortal sin.

I hope that the priest has offered the sacrament of reconciliation, as well as the sacrament of marriage.

 

[delorean_boy]

if the priest knows that she is in the state of mortal sin, he must deny her the sacrament. since it is also a grave sin to take our saviour unworthily, if the priest allowed her to receive he also would be an accomplice to her sin. not only are doing the acts sinful, but standing idly by is aswell. we are told in scripture to admonish sinners! just because we ourselves are sinners doesnt mean we just let everyone else sink. we must pull eachother up

its like two kids are bad at math, one sees the other made a mistake in multiplication and points it out. no matter if they are both bad at math or not. wrong is wrong!

Im sorry but a “dont judge me” isnt gonna cut it when your standing if front of christ.

 

[Stephen-Maguire]

4 marks:

I would never embarrass anyone in such a public manner. Why couldn’t the priest have spoken to the woman after the service? Perhaps she would repent, and he could even take some time out of his busy schedule to offer her the Sacrament of Reconciliation?

There is no point in the Sacrament of Reconcilation if the person is going to do the same thing after absolution, I heard & you all can correct me on this, but Saint Padre Pio is supposed to have with-held absolution untill the person put what was wrong, right.

 

[Stephen-Maguire]

FrmrTrad:

.Just a note: going to confession does not “put things right” entirely; we must also amend our lives.

Thanks, I know that already, otherwise I wouldn’t have gone to confession, what would be the point,---- ie: remaining the same after it.

Thanks :tiphat:

 

[Stephen-Maguire]

juno24:

I think it is hilarious that the woman is demanding that the priest be held accountable for his actions, yet refuses to hold herself (or be held) to the same standard. Can you say “irony”? I knew you could!

Have a great day!
Judy

The priest is standing up for what the Church teaches.

 

[4_marks]

Stephen-Maguire:

There is no point in the Sacrament of Reconcilation if the person is going to do the same thing after absolution, I heard & you all can correct me on this, but Saint Padre Pio is supposed to have with-held absolution untill the person put what was wrong, right.

Some things are impossible to put right. For instance, if a woman aborts her baby, she cannot then bring the baby back to life on this earth again. I suppose that, by these standards, she has committed the unpardonable sin. If so, why have groups in the Church seeking to counsel women who have had past abortions? They will never be able to make restitution for them.

What about the Catholic priest who confesses to molesting countless altar boys? He has damaged them for life. Not to mention the monetary damage he has done to the local diocese which required the bishop to close down vibrant parishes, leading to the scandalization of many parishoners. The priest, however penitent, cannot make restitution. I suppose he has also committed the unpardonable sin.

You see, this is a point where I don’t think the Catholic Church really gets it and the evangelical Protestant Churches seem to. We cannot pay for our sins. Sins are eternal offenses because they offend an eternal God. We may make acts of penance, but full restitution is impossible in many cases. It is Jesus who is the perfect sacrifice. It is Jesus who makes full restitution for our sins.

Jesus said, “If your brother sins, forgive him. And if he wrongs you seven times in a day and returns to you seven times saying, “I am sorry,” you should forgive him.” (NASB, St. Luke 17: 3-4). Jesus did not say to put terms and conditions on the forgiveness. The religious leaders of Jesus day were adept at keeping with obedience to the letter of the Law and not to the spirit of the Law. Jesus said to forgive unconditionally. I elect to take Him at His word.

 

[Stephen-Maguire]

Anna Elizabeth:

Stephen, I would like to send my support to that father. Would you please let me know how I could contact him?

Thanks, and God bless,

Anna

I will send you a private contact, I’m not going to be responsible for people publicly attacking the Priest.
I’m not saying you are, but some might, i’m sure he has enough on his plate without that.

I thought long and hard before I posted that thread, but as the woman got the media involved I decided to put it up here, anyway that paper goes all around the world wherever there are Irish emigrants.

Actually off the cuff, you can send request to it if some want to find long lost relatives.

 

[4_marks]

FrmrTrad:

That member of the “faithful” has embarrased herself by publicly living in sin, except that the priest is the only one who is embarrased for her. The priest is blessing his congregation, his flock, with an accurate understanding of what is scandalous: cohabitation and serial adultery.Just a note: going to confession does not “put things right” entirely; we must also amend our lives.

And in “blessing his flock” he may be further alienating those who observe him to be more judgmental than he is merciful. According to God’s Word, he, too, will be judged by the same measure with which he uses to judge others. I pity him if he should happen to fall into serious sin.

While it is true that this woman appears to be outwardly obstinate, we must suspend judgment. Perhaps she is reacting to the perceived arrogance of the priest in this attempt to exert authority over her. Think of what might happen if the priest showed her more compassionate understanding? People cohabitate for a number of reasons. Is the priest certain that they are having sexual relations with one another? Is it really any of his business unless she has come to him as her confessor and spiritual advisor?

While I am no liberal Catholic, I am grateful that within the Church there are diverse venues of healing, compassion and understanding for those who are marginalized from her due to lifestyle choices and preferences like this one:
paulist.org/bradcsp/page2.html.

 

[Stephen-Maguire]

4 marks:

Some things are impossible to put right. For instance, if a woman aborts her baby, she cannot then bring the baby back to life on this earth again. I suppose that, by these standards, she has committed the unpardonable sin. If so, why have groups in the Church seeking to counsel women who have had past abortions? They will never be able to make restitution for them.

What about the Catholic priest who confesses to molesting countless altar boys? He has damaged them for life. Not to mention the monetary damage he has done to the local diocese which required the bishop to close down vibrant parishes, leading to the scandalization of many parishoners. The priest, however penitent, cannot make restitution. I suppose he has also committed the unpardonable sin.

You see, this is a point where I don’t think the Catholic Church really gets it and the evangelical Protestant Churches seem to. We cannot pay for our sins. Sins are eternal offenses because they offend an eternal God. We may make acts of penance, but full restitution is impossible in many cases. It is Jesus who is the perfect sacrifice. It is Jesus who makes full restitution for our sins.

Jesus said, “If your brother sins, forgive him. And if he wrongs you seven times in a day and returns to you seven times saying, “I am sorry,” you should forgive him.” (NASB, St. Luke 17: 3-4). Jesus did not say to put terms and conditions on the forgiveness. The religious leaders of Jesus day were adept at keeping with obedience to the letter of the Law and not to the spirit of the Law. Jesus said to forgive unconditionally. I elect to take Him at His word.

Right, that is sometimes the whole point of forgiveness, there are numerous Saints that have prayed for their executionors to be saved.
Some may not have been saved but for the prayers of the innocent, thats why purgatory for me is real, how can we think that we can enter Heaven without some form of restitution.
I think hard as it is to swallow, people that have been abused, somehow have to find it in their hearts to forgive. ( 70 times 7)

Yes true it is only Jesus that is the perfect sacrifice, and all the more reason if we believe that each Mass is Calvary revisited, to not receive unworthly.

Like Jesus said, cleanse the inside of the cup, before we cleanse the outside.

 

[Stephen-Maguire]

4 marks:

People cohabitate for a number of reasons. Is the priest certain that they are having sexual relations with one another? Is it really any of his business unless she has come to him as her confessor and spiritual advisor?

They have 2 children together, so theres a possability that they have and maybe still are.
But some are so poorly taught anymore, by sermon or otherwise that they don’t know any better.
The catechism has been out for sometime now, but not too many bother to read it.
As Fr, Rookey from Chicago said on his many visits to Ireland, “pick up that Bible, blow away the cobwebs from it, and read it”
sound advice Father.

 

[JCPhoenix]

4 marks:

Some things are impossible to put right. For instance, if a woman aborts her baby, she cannot then bring the baby back to life on this earth again. I suppose that, by these standards, she has committed the unpardonable sin. If so, why have groups in the Church seeking to counsel women who have had past abortions? They will never be able to make restitution for them.
.
You see, this is a point where I don’t think the Catholic Church really gets it and the evangelical Protestant Churches seem to. We cannot pay for our sins. Sins are eternal offenses because they offend an eternal God. We may make acts of penance, but full restitution is impossible in many cases. It is Jesus who is the perfect sacrifice. It is Jesus who makes full restitution for our sins.

Jesus said, “If your brother sins, forgive him. And if he wrongs you seven times in a day and returns to you seven times saying, “I am sorry,” you should forgive him.” (NASB, St. Luke 17: 3-4). Jesus did not say to put terms and conditions on the forgiveness. The religious leaders of Jesus day were adept at keeping with obedience to the letter of the Law and not to the spirit of the Law. Jesus said to forgive unconditionally. I elect to take Him at His word.

4Marks, that’s where you’re mistaken and don’t understand our theology…Catholicism DOES get it, and I apologize for the offense, but we “get it” far more so than Protestant theology.

Atonement isn’t necessarily about “putting it right.” There are few actions in life in general that can really be “put right.” Look at your own life…how many people have you yourself hurt? Do you think an apology has always been enough? Have you yourself been able to undo damage you caused, either willfully or not?

When we go to confession, to do so correctly is to truely repent at heart…for those things we can change, we must at heart honestly make effort to change. For those things we cannot change, outside of confession is temporal punishment…meaning the penance given by the priest is not always enough. Sometimes there is more suffering.

For example…I now suffer with a health condition as a result of a mortal sin I committed in my past. I can’t undo my act…and I have gone to confession and I have changed my life and have refrained from that sin ever since. However, I still suffer and there are other potential diseases I may now suffer from in my future. This is temporal punishment. It is just, and I bear this burden because I know it is my punishment.

For the priest…most can’t read hearts. St. Padre Pio had this charism…most priests just have to give a good faith absolution…but only Jesus really knows the state of our hearts, knows our intentions. A priest may absolve us in good faith…but if I lied, for example…that sin is not forgiven and in the future to avoid Hell I would have to return to confession, now confess not only the sin but the sin of lying in the confessional.

Sin snowballs. And true absolution wipes it clean but for the temporal results of our indiscretions. The reality is that there ARE terms and conditions upon forgiveness. Yes, we are called to forgive our brother over and over…but it is not we that get the brother into heaven, for he must make his own way. We are called to forgive…for our own souls, for the leadership of the offending soul. Let’s look at the true context both of the Bible and of humanity. Yes, forgive your brother…but if your brother makes no effort to change, do you believe his requests for forgiveness? Do you think his slate is wiped clean by your forgiveness? Do you really think he could enter the presence of God at death and not disintegrate?

This really is a larger topic than you may realize. So I’ll stop there.

I hope this helps you to understand. If I was not clear please ask away as I would love to help you understand, if not believe.

 

[Stephen-Maguire]

4 marks:

You see, this is a point where I don’t think the Catholic Church really gets it and the evangelical Protestant Churches seem to. We cannot pay for our sins. Sins are eternal offenses because they offend an eternal God. We may make acts of penance, but full restitution is impossible in many cases. It is Jesus who is the perfect sacrifice. It is Jesus who makes full restitution for our sins.

That kinda turns these words on their head > August 1917 Fatima.
Looking very sad, Mary then said: “Pray, pray very much, and make sacrifices for sinners; for many souls go to hell, because there are none to sacrifice themselves and pray for them.” With that she rose into the air and moved towards the east before disappearing.

By now the children had thoroughly absorbed Mary’s plea for prayer and penance, and did everything they could to answer it. They prayed for hours while lying prostrate on the ground and went as long as they could without drinking, in the burning heat of the Portuguese summer. They also went without food, as a sacrifice for sinners, to save them from hell, the vision of which had so profoundly effected them. They even knotted some pieces of old rope around their waists.

 

[4_marks]

A distinction must be made between performing penance, which leads to mortification and greater self-discipline and expresses true sorrow for sin, and actually paying for one’s sins. We are not our own saviors. Jesus is our one and only Savior. His sacrifice is once for all.
Our redemption and our salvation from sin rests entirely upon what He has done for us.

 

[4_marks]

4Marks, that’s where you’re mistaken and don’t understand our theology…Catholicism DOES get it, and I apologize for the offense, but we “get it” far more so than Protestant theology…

…I hope this helps you to understand. If I was not clear please ask away as I would love to help you understand, if not believe.

I am sorry that you have suffered so much. You have a good attitude. Please pray for our separated brothers and sisters. And know that God loves us all more than we can ever fully fathom.