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TheOldColonel
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Indeed. I insist upon that.
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Zaccheus
Guest
The Lake of Fire is inevitable. Satan stands condemned already. He will do all the evil he can in the meantime, because he is evil and hate-filled.If I were the ultimate embodiment of evil, I’d be planning an alternative course to one that has me thrown into the Lake of Fire.
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Socrates92
Guest
Haha, you’re killing me.
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normdplume
Guest
If he is evil, then God must have made him that way. I assume you meant he “chose” evil and became so?
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Zaccheus
Guest
God made Lucifer good as God made all creation good. Lucifer chose to rebel, thinking he could set himself up as his own god.If he is evil, then God must have made him that way. I assume you meant he “chose” evil and became so?
In so doing Lucifer, who was the Light-bearer, made himself evil and became Satan the Adversary.
Interesting what would happen if Satan went up to a priest and confessed his sins. Obviously it would never happen.Satan isn’t going to seek absolution from his sins.
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Psalms62
Guest
There’s a good article to read on the subject:
24 Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven [m]may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed [n]tares among the wheat, and went away. 26 But when the [o]wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also. 27 The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? [p]How then does it have tares?’ 28 And he said to them, ‘An [q]enemy has done this!’ The slaves *said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he *said, ‘No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”
In Matthew 19:25, When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” It is not so much as “if evil knows” when that day will come" and there is a possibility like some believe that “evil” wants to gain force by taking others with them to form their own place. But with God who brings salvation to others, it is as if redemption ( a personal redemption from God) comes to their home. When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, "Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today."Luke 19:5
24 Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven [m]may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed [n]tares among the wheat, and went away. 26 But when the [o]wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also. 27 The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? [p]How then does it have tares?’ 28 And he said to them, ‘An [q]enemy has done this!’ The slaves *said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he *said, ‘No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”
Again, not that evil has any purpose but with God directing the path of any sinner, nothing is impossible for God to accomplish in the way of salvation. When a sinner is so in depth into their sin, it is a judgment but not a final judgment. God releases them with an act of forgiveness (to shine on those living in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the path of peace."). However! Will there be a day when the doors will be shut to redemption? Before the final judgment? I believe not.“Furthermore, St. Thomas gives reasons why on account of the good members of the Church the evil ones should not be removed before the Judgment. One reason is that those who are evil provide the good with opportunities for the practice of virtue, especially that of patience. Secondly, it does happen that one who was once evil afterwards becomes good. If Saul who had persecuted the Church of God had been extirpated, the Church would not have had Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles. Thirdly, there are many who seem to be evil but are in reality good. If these were destroyed, the good would be destroyed.”
In Matthew 19:25, When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” It is not so much as “if evil knows” when that day will come" and there is a possibility like some believe that “evil” wants to gain force by taking others with them to form their own place. But with God who brings salvation to others, it is as if redemption ( a personal redemption from God) comes to their home. When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, "Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today."Luke 19:5
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Psalms62
Guest
Redemption can be so much like Mary obedience and fulfillment to a person. So I would imagine that even “evil” has its force (not strength) God will always send an angel to save that person or people from harm and will bring Christ (Redeemer) to them for their own salvation. I pray so very hard but I must “believe”’ that God will take action!!
While we were sleeping…the enemy came and sowed
While we were sleeping…the enemy came and sowed
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Psalms62
Guest
Lectio Divina:
Reference: Lectio: 31st Sunday of ordinary time (B)|| The Missive: The Parables of Christ, Part VI: Parable of the Wheat and Tares|| Lectio Divina: Matthew 13:31-35
Sunday, November 4, 2018
When appearances take revenge on love…
The greatest commandment: love of God and of neighbor
Mark 12:28-34
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Reference: Lectio: 31st Sunday of ordinary time (B)|| The Missive: The Parables of Christ, Part VI: Parable of the Wheat and Tares|| Lectio Divina: Matthew 13:31-35
Sunday, November 4, 2018
When appearances take revenge on love…
The greatest commandment: love of God and of neighbor
Mark 12:28-34
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
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therese1998
Guest
This. Every soul lost to Satan hurts God more than we know or can imagine. For a very limited understanding, how would any of us feel if our child made a choice to follow Satan? The end is known and Satan knows his future but he longs to take as many souls as possible and to hurt God as much as possible before his hand are tied.Even though Satan knows he will fail, he wants to bring as many souls down with him as possible.
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BenYosef
Guest
One has to remember the teaching of both scholars, the Catholic Church, and reason itself, that the book of Revelation is not forecast of events but an “apocalypse.”
As such, the book is not a “prophecy” as if it were “history written in advance.” In fact, an apocalypse is a form of Jewish political protest or intrigue writing the current historical history of the time of the author and the hopes of that author as if they were prophetic history being fulfilled according to some divine plan in which evil eventually loses at the hand of good under the rule or Kingdom of God.
An apocalypse is not like a weather forecast telling you what events to expect in history. Even the “lake of fire” is not specifically “hell” or “Gehenna” but a symbol of the eventual eternal loss and eventual eternal victory of good over evil. To read into it as if God is going to literal pick up the creature Satan and drop him into a “lake” filled with “fire” where the Devil will be tormented forever is to lose the meaning of an apocalypse and its symbols.
For instance, if that is literal, then women will never expect to God to heaven but only men who have never had sexual relations (Revelation 14.4), and heaven itself is made of physical materials–some of which are not possible to generate and make little sense to do so. (Revelation 21.21) These are symbols, common to apocalyptic Jewish writings which do not attempt to use literal expressions and in which readers are not meant to search for literal meanings.
So instead of wondering if Satan can see his fate in Revelation, one might want to ask: “Do those who do evil believe the message found not only in Revelation but all Scripture, from beginning to end that says that God is coming to adversely judge the wicked”? Do we?
Looking around the world, the answer is apparently “no.” So why are you surprised at Satan the Devil’s response to Revelation?
As such, the book is not a “prophecy” as if it were “history written in advance.” In fact, an apocalypse is a form of Jewish political protest or intrigue writing the current historical history of the time of the author and the hopes of that author as if they were prophetic history being fulfilled according to some divine plan in which evil eventually loses at the hand of good under the rule or Kingdom of God.
An apocalypse is not like a weather forecast telling you what events to expect in history. Even the “lake of fire” is not specifically “hell” or “Gehenna” but a symbol of the eventual eternal loss and eventual eternal victory of good over evil. To read into it as if God is going to literal pick up the creature Satan and drop him into a “lake” filled with “fire” where the Devil will be tormented forever is to lose the meaning of an apocalypse and its symbols.
For instance, if that is literal, then women will never expect to God to heaven but only men who have never had sexual relations (Revelation 14.4), and heaven itself is made of physical materials–some of which are not possible to generate and make little sense to do so. (Revelation 21.21) These are symbols, common to apocalyptic Jewish writings which do not attempt to use literal expressions and in which readers are not meant to search for literal meanings.
So instead of wondering if Satan can see his fate in Revelation, one might want to ask: “Do those who do evil believe the message found not only in Revelation but all Scripture, from beginning to end that says that God is coming to adversely judge the wicked”? Do we?
Looking around the world, the answer is apparently “no.” So why are you surprised at Satan the Devil’s response to Revelation?
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tweedlealice
Guest
Blessings
I see your point & Gods. But, there are the parables that refer to having a complaint on your brother, & you go,IN LOVE, & declare his offense. And he doesn’t accept it. Then, go get a witness & come back & address the sinner, again. If he is still not repentant, he is to be taken out of the church.
That’s not verbatim scriptures. But, there was an exodus for the unrepentant sinner.
Perchance, the tares come & go, as they grow. Repent & change to good seed(?)
When all is grown, unrepentant tares are changed to wheat. HMMM
I m trying to have repentance work in here but tares are tares???
It would be impossible to empty a church of all sinners, as each one of us falls, at different times. SIGH!
Go WHEAT!
Tweedlealice
I see your point & Gods. But, there are the parables that refer to having a complaint on your brother, & you go,IN LOVE, & declare his offense. And he doesn’t accept it. Then, go get a witness & come back & address the sinner, again. If he is still not repentant, he is to be taken out of the church.
That’s not verbatim scriptures. But, there was an exodus for the unrepentant sinner.
Perchance, the tares come & go, as they grow. Repent & change to good seed(?)
When all is grown, unrepentant tares are changed to wheat. HMMM
I m trying to have repentance work in here but tares are tares???
It would be impossible to empty a church of all sinners, as each one of us falls, at different times. SIGH!
Go WHEAT!
Tweedlealice
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Gabika50
Guest
Yes he can. that is why periodically you have new agers write books such as “Disappearance of Miracles” refuting the Bible and saying the Holy Spirit told them something different. Another book written by an ex Jew and ex Christian Scientist “A course in miracles” rewrote the Bible entirely and indexed itself like a Bible for further legitimacy telling its readers how to become God and work your own miracles. Proof positive that there are other voices other than the Holy Spirit screaming for your attention
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Psalms62
Guest
Blessings!
The whole story of the wheat and tares is that God allows until the time of the final redemption for both good and evil to dwell together. Good has the ability with the grace of God to bring out his power, strength, compassion and salvation. IF not, then Christ would not have been born or had risen from the dead.
The story of Jacob and the angel,for example, struggle throughout the night but man prevails and receives a new name.
They wrestled throughout the night until
daybreak, at which point the stranger crippled Jacob with a blow to his hip that disabled him with a limp for the rest of his life. It was by then Jacob knew what had happened: “I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared” (Genesis 32:30). In the process, Jacob the deceiver received a new name, Israel , which likely means “He struggles with God.” However, what is most important occurs at the conclusion of that struggle. We read that God “blessed him there” (Genesis 32:29).
Again , the story of Joseph is about the twelve tribes. In the end the brothers come to Joseph for forgiveness and what does Joseph tell them…You meant to do evil but God…God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive…
The shifting of the wheat and tares will be weighed out…I’ve learned a valuable lesson that everything is in God’s hands and we must trust in his plans and have faith. There are so many stories/chapters of characters/people that I can identify with. Sometimes it is difficult to let God in and to allow the blessing to start.
The whole story of the wheat and tares is that God allows until the time of the final redemption for both good and evil to dwell together. Good has the ability with the grace of God to bring out his power, strength, compassion and salvation. IF not, then Christ would not have been born or had risen from the dead.
The story of Jacob and the angel,for example, struggle throughout the night but man prevails and receives a new name.
They wrestled throughout the night until
daybreak, at which point the stranger crippled Jacob with a blow to his hip that disabled him with a limp for the rest of his life. It was by then Jacob knew what had happened: “I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared” (Genesis 32:30). In the process, Jacob the deceiver received a new name, Israel , which likely means “He struggles with God.” However, what is most important occurs at the conclusion of that struggle. We read that God “blessed him there” (Genesis 32:29).
Again , the story of Joseph is about the twelve tribes. In the end the brothers come to Joseph for forgiveness and what does Joseph tell them…You meant to do evil but God…God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive…
The shifting of the wheat and tares will be weighed out…I’ve learned a valuable lesson that everything is in God’s hands and we must trust in his plans and have faith. There are so many stories/chapters of characters/people that I can identify with. Sometimes it is difficult to let God in and to allow the blessing to start.
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Psalms62
Guest
How would a parent feel if their child chose to be in a wrong group and the parents/parent couldn’t get them out? Evil uses many devices to entice a person. Just like Eve the apple looked pleasing to the eye. You have no idea what it does to parent or parents. It is a incredible suffering. The lawyers and the law are very limited and it make you feel helpless. Not only this, the attitudes of those who are around and comments are defeating. Everyday you turn to God for strength and everyday you pull another prayer for assistance.For a very limited understanding, how would any of us feel if our child made a choice to follow Satan
We chose God everyday in our tough decision (judgement), in our obedience and closest in prayer. Today, kids think magic is a game to play! I really think parents should have a place within the church to go and seek someone who is educated in this area.
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Psalms62
Guest
And, hopefully we have the courage to stand up as Christians to turn those voices around! I lean on St Paul - i pray for that kind of strength and love for God and his Son!Proof positive that there are other voices other than the Holy Spirit screaming for your attention
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Edy
Guest
My guess is he wants to collect as many souls as he can before the time is up. He wants a high score at the end.
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Psalms62
Guest
Mt. 13:26] And when the blade was sprung up, and had brought forth fruit, then appeared also the cockle. 27Even though Satan knows he will fail, he wants to bring as many souls down with him as possible.
And the servants of the goodman of the house coming said to him: Sir, didst thou not sow good seed in thy field? whence then hath it cockle? 28 And he said to them: An enemy hath done this. And the servants said to him: Wilt thou that we go and gather it up? 29 And he said: No, lest perhaps gathering up the cockle, you root up the wheat also together with it.
Both links below illustrate that they are almost indistinguishable to the naked eye, especially in a field sown with both.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockle_%28weed%29
It usually it grows in the same production zones as wheat and is considered a weed. The similarity between these two plants is so extensive that in some regions cockle is referred to as “false wheat.”
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat
The author was writing about Truth, error, and deception.
Reference:Fields of Cockle and Wheat - meaning?
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mythbuster1
Guest
Satan had access to the prophecies of the Redemption, but he and his minions misunderstood them. They induced men to kill Christ, which fulfilled the very Redemption they were trying to stop.
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Psalms62
Guest
The agony in the garden when Jesus prayed for the hour to pass and had asked the the apostles to stay awake with him. Much like that passage is the end of days. It is the hour and cup we must all drink but also, to stay awake and pray that we do not fail.My guess is he wants to collect as many souls as he can before the time is up. He wants a high score at the end.
When the mother of Zebedee’s children (James and John) came to Jesus with her sons. Both James and John asked Jesus if they could sit one on his right and the other on his left side. A special place of honor, what did Jesus tell them?
You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to take the suffering that I am about to take? (*Are you able to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?)” They said, “Yes, we are able.” 23 He said to them, “You will suffer as I will suffer. But the places at My right side and at My left side are not Mine to give. Whoever My Father says will have those places.”
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