Can't We Just Agree to Disagree

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Why is it a big deal if someone does not follow the Church’s teachings on the controversial topics? When it comes down to it, who is worse the person who agrees with the Church’s teachings but persists in breaking the golden rule. Most of the controversial topics are honestly debatable. But theft will always be a sin, same with being dishonest, and intolerant. Some people strongly disagree with the church’s doctrines yet they do not attack those who do agree, not do they care, they can accept disagreement. It would be wrong to attack someone for disagreeing with you. Some people will never on this God-green Earth agree with the church’s teachings ever. I mean as a long you are decent human being to another person, why does it matter whether you vote for gay marriage, abortion, etc? A lot of people say God will judge. I have never seen God. Sure, I fear his punishment and ramifications for my actions. I have never died before either. I think people should just try to be decent to each other, isn’t that the most important?
 
Everyone should do good but we have entered a Dictatorship of Relativism as described by Pope Benedict. Those who deny certain truths are not accepting reality as it is. Right and wrong can become, and has become, uncertain. On this forum, I have read: “What is good for you may be bad for me.” So no one except individuals decide and without shared values, we get this:

"The Holy Father says:
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"If we cannot have common values, common truths, sufficient communication on the essentials of human life–how to live how to respond to the great challenges of human life–then true society becomes impossible."
"Pope Benedict XVI goes on to say:
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"We are moving toward a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as for certain and which has as its highest goal one’s own ego and one’s own desires. The church must defend itself against threats such as “radical individualism” and “vague religious mysticism”. [emphasis added]"
What we end up with are tribes.

Commentary by the Practical Catholic:

“Pope Benedict does not play language games, he is unconcerned with the postmodernist’s corner on untruth. Neither should we be. Notice how he calls relativism a “dictatorship” instead of agreeing that no values and no Truth are the way forward for society. What many fail to recognize is that imposing nihilism and arbitrary tribalism is a form of dictatorship. Where untruth or half truth is the common order, there can only be oppression. Political correctness has asked us to abandon our value-laden language and to pick up a new language proper to the secular forum. However, this secular newspeak is value-laden against the traditional claims of the Western world and as such, is a poison rather than a new order. We can and should bring our own conviction laden language to the table, if we’re going to have any sort of real dialogue at all. Misinformation and restrained convictions are not the proper building blocks for a democracy.”

If we cannot agree then tribalism and a non-democratic assembly of tribes creates sets of goals to satisfy the tribe’s desires.

Some think we can be “good without God.”

Peace,
Ed
 
Love and truth are two of God’s fundamental qualities. Separate them from each other, and they each become meaningless.

Loving persons end up in Hell because they don’t abide by basic truths.

Persons who have the truth end up in Hell because they fail to use their knowledge in loving ways.

A loving person who supports abortion is spiritually dead.

A truthful person who acts like a pharisee is also spiritually dead.

Our lives must be based on both love and truth, not just love.

Without truth, our love is imperfect, and without love, truths can’t be portrayed properly.

🤷
 
+JMJ+
Why is it a big deal if someone does not follow the Church’s teachings on the controversial topics? When it comes down to it, who is worse the person who agrees with the Church’s teachings but persists in breaking the golden rule. Most of the controversial topics are honestly debatable. But theft will always be a sin, same with being dishonest, and intolerant. Some people strongly disagree with the church’s doctrines yet they do not attack those who do agree, not do they care, they can accept disagreement. It would be wrong to attack someone for disagreeing with you. Some people will never on this God-green Earth agree with the church’s teachings ever. I mean as a long you are decent human being to another person, why does it matter whether you vote for gay marriage, abortion, etc? A lot of people say God will judge. I have never seen God. Sure, I fear his punishment and ramifications for my actions. I have never died before either. I think people should just try to be decent to each other, isn’t that the most important?
Are you kidding me? This is one great thing about Catholicism! Our disagreements!

Some people will sneer at our “tribalism”, of our inability to agree to disagree. But that is the proof that Catholics are freethinkers! Our “tribalism” is my sneer to other people who say that we only follow the pope like mindless sheep.

We are all passionate for what is good. And I will never agree to agree to just disagree. If anybody will not listen to love and reason, then I’d just shake the dust off my sandals.
 
I have no direct control, and precious little indirect control, over whether “gay marriage” is going to become a legal thing all over the US.

My guess is that it is unstoppable at this point. No way to tell whether “civil unions” would have placated them for a while. 🤷

But the Church already defines marriage in a way that does not include all civil marriages, so a Catholic marriage definition is not affected by civil law expanding what it calls “marriage.” A divorcee without an annulment cannot be validly married in the Church. Neither can a gay couple.

Civil marriage have never constituted sufficient evidence of a Catholic marriage. Frankly I don’t think this is one we can win, so we might as well find something else to fight about.

But if I “disagree” with someone and really have a lot of passion invested in maintaining my own story, sometimes I really can’t get with “agree to disagree” but feel more like, “concede to disagree” and with egoic undertones of “maybe some day you’ll awaken to My Way of Thinking.” 😃
 
Why is it a big deal if someone does not follow the Church’s teachings on the controversial topics? When it comes down to it, who is worse the person who agrees with the Church’s teachings but persists in breaking the golden rule. Most of the controversial topics are honestly debatable. But theft will always be a sin, same with being dishonest, and intolerant. Some people strongly disagree with the church’s doctrines yet they do not attack those who do agree, not do they care, they can accept disagreement. It would be wrong to attack someone for disagreeing with you. Some people will never on this God-green Earth agree with the church’s teachings ever. I mean as a long you are decent human being to another person, why does it matter whether you vote for gay marriage, abortion, etc? A lot of people say God will judge. I have never seen God. Sure, I fear his punishment and ramifications for my actions. I have never died before either. I think people should just try to be decent to each other, isn’t that the most important?
First of all, if one really follows the golden rule, they wouldn’t support abortion.

Your justification on why people don’t have to follow the Church’s teachings seems like an attack on people who do. Rather than explaining why one would not have to follow it, you asked the question who is better, the one who breaks the golden rule or the one who disobeys the church’s teachings, which incorrectly implies that everyone who follows the Church’s teaching does not follow the golden rule. The golden rule is actually part of the Church’s teaching. However, the ones that you deem as part of the controversial topics of the Church are all the ones that condemn acts of sinful pleasure or enjoyment for man(In other words, no one is being hurt materially unlike some sins like murder.) For example, the Church’s teaching on gay marriage is against it, even though the people who take part in it want it. But everyone agrees on the church’s teaching on murder, because it involves harm to a human being. If, however, the act is not harmful to a human being but rather for the enjoyment of a human being, the enemies of the Church support it.

Why do they support it? Because they value man over God, in the same way Adam and Eve rebelled against God in the Garden of Eden. It is because of self love, which goes against the golden rule and the new commandment, that they support these intrinsically evil acts. How else would someone be able to condone preventing someone from being born? The excuse that they don’t support it because it isn’t logical or moral doesn’t work because the natural law is written in every heart of man. It is ,however, not perceived by everyone clearly and immediately and sinful man needs grace and revelation to understand it completely. But if man rejects God by choosing his own personal enjoyment over service to God, then they won’t receive the grace to understand it. This is precisely why the people who don’t support the Church’s “controversial” teachings do not and cannot follow Christ’s teachings such as the golden rule which requires selflessness, but we have already shown that it is because of self-love that they reject the Magisterium.

Lastly, your last sentence is incorrect and is the fault of your thinking. The most important thing is worship of God, not the betterment of man. Everything should be ad majorem dei gloriam( for the greater glory of God). He loves us beyond imagination, and so it is proper to love Him back. He is our Creator whom we should love with all our heart,mind, and soul, and in return God will pay us a huge reward.

**He that is not with me, is against me: and he that gathereth not with me, scattereth. - ** Matthew 12:30

You cannot pick and choose what you want to believe from Christ and what you don’t want to. The above verse explains why.
 
I have no direct control, and precious little indirect control, over whether “gay marriage” is going to become a legal thing all over the US.

My guess is that it is unstoppable at this point. No way to tell whether “civil unions” would have placated them for a while. 🤷

But the Church already defines marriage in a way that does not include all civil marriages, so a Catholic marriage definition is not affected by civil law expanding what it calls “marriage.” A divorcee without an annulment cannot be validly married in the Church. Neither can a gay couple.

Civil marriage have never constituted sufficient evidence of a Catholic marriage. Frankly I don’t think this is one we can win, so we might as well find something else to fight about.

But if I “disagree” with someone and really have a lot of passion invested in maintaining my own story, sometimes I really can’t get with “agree to disagree” but feel more like, “concede to disagree” and with egoic undertones of “maybe some day you’ll awaken to My Way of Thinking.” 😃
What is the point of preaching in opposition or rally against abortion, gay marriage or any of the hot topic issues? People will do as they please. Believe as they please. That is the greatest gift of free will. I do not see the point in getting upset over things you cannot fix anyways.
 
What is the point of preaching in opposition or rally against abortion, gay marriage or any of the hot topic issues? People will do as they please. Believe as they please. That is the greatest gift of free will. I do not see the point in getting upset over things you cannot fix anyways.
I agree. I have been a pro life precinct person, but I didn’t think the strategy we were taking was effective. So even though they made all the right demands, they did not “play their cards” very well and keep getting beaten at “the game”

Politics is the process by which disagreements over how things are done, get resolved one way or the other. So taking “disagreement” out of politics is a contradiction IMO.
 
How can you say that some sins are kinda ok and not a big deal, as long as we are nice people by secular standards but then claim that theft will always be theft and imply that theft is wrong? Makes no sense to support relativism and then decide that some things are simply wrong and always will be.

Perhaps you could ask yourself this one question. How can you decide that anything is wrong? Anything.

It is easy to justify things and define them in a positive way (benefit, pleasure, no harm done, etc.) , but where and how do you draw the line to decide that something is wrong?
 
What is the point of preaching in opposition or rally against abortion, gay marriage or any of the hot topic issues? People will do as they please. Believe as they please. That is the greatest gift of free will. I do not see the point in getting upset over things you cannot fix anyways.
In a Christians view, free will does not mean that one can choose what one wants to say, do or believe whatever they want. Taken to the extreme this type of attitude will either lead one to incarceration or death. A Christians view of free will is that one has the ability to choose between following the will of God or not to follow His will.
 
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