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ted1132
Guest
Most accepted translation: …to give his people knowledge of salvation, through forgiveness of their sins…" Question is – …through, by, for, forgiveness of their sins…? translation makes a difference on the msg.
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T
trinichiqn
Guest
What I say every morning is “by the forgiveness of their sins”
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Garyjohn2
Guest
“Through” and “by” would effectively mean the same things here. “For” would mean something else.
H
hazcompat
Guest
You, my child, shall be called the prophet of the Most High;
for you will go before the Lord to prepare his way,
to give his people knowledge of salvation
by the forgiveness of their sins.
divineoffice.org/
peace
for you will go before the Lord to prepare his way,
to give his people knowledge of salvation
by the forgiveness of their sins.
divineoffice.org/
peace
D
Dave_Noonan
Guest
It’s Greek “en” plus dative–and dative of instrument, means or matter seems to make the best sense–so something like “by (means of)” or “through” seems perfectly acceptable.Most accepted translation: …to give his people knowledge of salvation, through forgiveness of their sins…" Question is – …through, by, for, forgiveness of their sins…? translation makes a difference on the msg.
Here is the entry:
perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3De)nn)
R
rdscheirer
Guest
Dear Ted1132,
If you could post the “canticle” since most of us here don 't know it it would be really helpful.I hate it when posters presume to think that all of us here are as knowledgable as the poster- please assume I- and I say I- am stupid or ignorant when it comes to talking about theology- explain terms that the average person(majored in Physics- am a Surgeon- so I’m not stupid) can understand.
If you could post the “canticle” since most of us here don 't know it it would be really helpful.I hate it when posters presume to think that all of us here are as knowledgable as the poster- please assume I- and I say I- am stupid or ignorant when it comes to talking about theology- explain terms that the average person(majored in Physics- am a Surgeon- so I’m not stupid) can understand.
H
hazcompat
Guest
CANTICLE OF ZECHARIAH
Luke 1:68 – 79
The Messiah and his forerunner
Blessed be the Lord, the God of Israel;
he has come to his people and set them free.
He has raised up for us a mighty savior,
born of the house of his servant David.
Through his holy prophets he promised of old
that he would save us from our enemies,
from the hands of all who hate us.
He promised to show mercy to our fathers
and to remember his holy covenant.
This was the oath he swore to our father Abraham:
to set us free from the hands of our enemies,
free to worship him without fear,
holy and righteous in his sight all the days of our life.
You, my child, shall be called the prophet of the Most High;
for you will go before the Lord to prepare his way,
to give his people knowledge of salvation
by the forgiveness of their sins.
In the tender compassion of our God
the dawn from on high shall break upon us,
to shine on those who dwell in darkness and the shadow of death,
and to guide our feet into the way of peace.
Glory to the Father, and to the Son,
and to the Holy Spirit:
as it was in the beginning, is now,
and will be for ever. Amen.
divineoffice.org/
peace
Luke 1:68 – 79
The Messiah and his forerunner
Blessed be the Lord, the God of Israel;
he has come to his people and set them free.
He has raised up for us a mighty savior,
born of the house of his servant David.
Through his holy prophets he promised of old
that he would save us from our enemies,
from the hands of all who hate us.
He promised to show mercy to our fathers
and to remember his holy covenant.
This was the oath he swore to our father Abraham:
to set us free from the hands of our enemies,
free to worship him without fear,
holy and righteous in his sight all the days of our life.
You, my child, shall be called the prophet of the Most High;
for you will go before the Lord to prepare his way,
to give his people knowledge of salvation
by the forgiveness of their sins.
In the tender compassion of our God
the dawn from on high shall break upon us,
to shine on those who dwell in darkness and the shadow of death,
and to guide our feet into the way of peace.
Glory to the Father, and to the Son,
and to the Holy Spirit:
as it was in the beginning, is now,
and will be for ever. Amen.
divineoffice.org/
peace
T
ted1132
Guest
OK rd, no reason to feel intimidated by this, I barely know the scriptures myself, except for this passage, because it is in the morning prayer for everyone(sorry). As a surgeon, you can read well, read the scriptures, took me 5 years to even get close. I have been told read the Gospels right in order, JOHN last because he wrote last and it is the most mysterious.And of course, there are 100 commentaries on each one. As far as this passage, my understanding has always been, that one can receive “knowledge of salvation” by experiencing the forgiveness. They are not mutually exclusive. Thanks for the reply… ted
Dear Ted1132,
If you could post the “canticle” since most of us here don 't know it it would be really helpful.I hate it when posters presume to think that all of us here are as knowledgable as the poster- please assume I- and I say I- am stupid or ignorant when it comes to talking about theology- explain terms that the average person(majored in Physics- am a Surgeon- so I’m not stupid) can understand.
T
ted1132
Guest
EXCELLENT, I always believed this was true. A latin translation I have from 1962, says “through”, but I have seen “for” or some others that I believe change the whole theology of what I “believe” the HS is revealing here. Thank You…tedIt’s Greek “en” plus dative–and dative of instrument, means or matter seems to make the best sense–so something like “by (means of)” or “through” seems perfectly acceptable.
Here is the entry:
perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3De)nn)
D
Dave_Noonan
Guest
You’re welcome. I agree with your understanding of this verse.EXCELLENT, I always believed this was true. A latin translation I have from 1962, says “through”, but I have seen “for” or some others that I believe change the whole theology of what I “believe” the HS is revealing here. Thank You…ted
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