Cantor needs advice

[ellzeena]

I am a professionally trained lyric soprano (have been song leader in several churches for 30 years, professionally, as well as oratorio and other professional performances). My voice isn’t what it was at 32 (when my range was well above “high C”) but I can sing (thank God). I have been singing the 5PM mass (volunteer) at my local church for about a year now, and I’m doing it a Capella. I of course can read music (sight sing) and have perfect pitch, so I am being quite careful about introducing hymns to be sure the congregation learns them as we go along. I have had many congratulations and a lot of positive feedback (this church has no professional musicians other than myself, the few that are there are amateurs) but tonight I had a particularly brutal criticism from a man who said I was singing “too fast” (I’m singing the hymns as written) and that I needed to give the congregation “time” to find the hymns in the Missal (even though the numbers are clearly posted at every Mass). Now my question: any other professionals out there and what do YOU do? How long am I supposed to give the congregation to “find” the hymn when the numbers are posted? Am I supposed to “change” tempo (or sing in English rather than in Latin Gregorian chant with several of those which I sing at communion)? Is this criticism valid or should I just ignore it? Any feedback very much appreciated.

 

[Operalan]

First of all, as a professional musician, I’ve learned to take all criticism with a bit of those grains of salt you’ve heard so much about. The good critique is often times over deserved and the bad criticism is certainly not always well advised either. There is usually truth somewhere in the middle. I’ve had performances where critics have given great reviews (and, to my mind, they weren’t well deserved) and performances that were outstanding (and the critics either disliked them or it went unnoticed). I’d try best not to rely on critiques and go by your own understanding and training.

Now, as far as leading the people in the pews–one does have to be sensitive to the fact that they don’t have the training that you do. They also don’t always respond very quickly to new things. You must allow time for pages to be found, books to be dropped and then picked back up, coughs to be suppressed, and children to be hushed. You can then hopefully have the organist/pianist play through the hymn or response once, then sing it through for them once by yourself, and then have them join you. That way, they’ve had plenty of time to find the music, listen a bit, and then make their attempt with your help.

Most hymns do not have tempo markings and so there isn’t a way to sing the hymn via the tempo that “is written”. You have to provide a tempo that is of good taste and in respect to the text—and of course, to the Mass itself. No, you don’t race through the “Sanctus” or any other part. But, you don’t drag either. Sometimes, it’s not a matter of you singing too fast–it is a matter of the congregation singing too slow—or “listening too slow”!!! Whatever you do, remember that singing at Mass as a canto is no performing like in a theater or onstage. You are not there to impress—but to express. Lead—don’t concertize. And if they don’t want to follow you, you just keep on leading.

 

[gh4]

Unless you have a hymnal with ribbons, it doesn’t matter if the numbers are posted, most people will be opening their books, putting on glasses and finding the hymns and then are ready to sing.

Our music director is VERY fast on the announcement about the page number for the hymn and beginning the hymn that I usually miss at least 1/2 of the first verse and sometimes the entire verse. And yes, the page numbers ARE posted in the front of the church. I’ve tried slipping pieces of paper in to bookmark the hymns, and it really doesn’t make it much faster for me.

I am sorry that someone was brutal with you. Perhaps you might want to take a longer pause before you start the song. Perhaps you have an older group of folks at the 5pm mass and they just can’t keep up with the really fast tempos? I go to a parish that is mostly retired folks and they tend to not sing if the song is really fast.

And no, I’m not a professional musician or vocalist just a member of my parish.

 

[Phemie]

Left to itself, a Catholic congregation will usually sing anything set to ‘Ode to Joy’ so slowly that it sounds like a funeral dirge. If you sing it as written, they will think you’re ‘rushing’ but, of course, you aren’t.

I don’t know why people don’t simply turn to the ‘next’ hymn at the end of ‘this’ hymn. That way you’re ready to start singing when the singing should start. That means that the Communion hymn would actually start when the priest receives rather than by the time he’s made it down to give to the congregation.

Take that one criticism under consideration but for the moment I wouldn’t change the way you do things. Should more of the same type of criticism ensue, then I would reevaluate how I’m doing things. You can’t please everyone all the time.

 

[Cat]

When I read this thread, I think, “Overheads.” Why not?

I know a lot of Catholics are utterly opposed, and I can understand why they don’t want to see projections in one of the beautiful old churches that doesn’t have a clear space on which to project them.

But if it’s physically possible, projecting overheads eliminates the fumbling with hymnals (especially children, who are not always kind to the paper hymnals), and allows people who can’t see well to easily be able to read the words and join in the singing.

For people who don’t ever sing during worship, the words are right there in their face so they are forced to at least read through them and perhaps meditate upon their meaning, and possibly even pray the song through in their hearts.

The disadvantage with overheads is that for music readers, there is no music to read. However, most music readers are pretty comfortable finding hymns quickly in a hymnal. And after all, Catholic hymnals and missalettes, for some strange reason, don’t print anything except the melody line anyway, if that. Sigh.

Frankly, I think that before Catholic churches accept the idea of using overheads, we will see people using their iPhones to follow along in the Mass, including the hymns and songs. Again, I know that many Catholics are utterly opposed at this time, but I think it will happen, and probably soon. It is an innovation that would make Mass more quiet, orderly, and reverent, not the other way around.

 

[Cat]

I am a professionally trained lyric soprano (have been song leader in several churches for 30 years, professionally, as well as oratorio and other professional performances). My voice isn’t what it was at 32 (when my range was well above “high C”) but I can sing (thank God). I have been singing the 5PM mass (volunteer) at my local church for about a year now, and I’m doing it a Capella. I of course can read music (sight sing) and have perfect pitch, so I am being quite careful about introducing hymns to be sure the congregation learns them as we go along. I have had many congratulations and a lot of positive feedback (this church has no professional musicians other than myself, the few that are there are amateurs) but tonight I had a particularly brutal criticism from a man who said I was singing “too fast” (I’m singing the hymns as written) and that I needed to give the congregation “time” to find the hymns in the Missal (even though the numbers are clearly posted at every Mass). Now my question: any other professionals out there and what do YOU do? How long am I supposed to give the congregation to “find” the hymn when the numbers are posted? Am I supposed to “change” tempo (or sing in English rather than in Latin Gregorian chant with several of those which I sing at communion)? Is this criticism valid or should I just ignore it? Any feedback very much appreciated.

I play piano, so I can feel for you. It’s tough to shake something like this off.

My advice is to be gracious to such people, thank them for their advice and interest, and then ignore his advice and continue as you have been doing. Chances are good if you are gracious to the gentleman, he will not realize that you are ignoring him, and he will think that you are slowing down and taking your time, and he’ll tell all his friends that you are heeding his advice (even though you aren’t). Just make sure to thank him every time you see him!

My second piece of advice is to talk to an experienced music director of a liturgical church, and ask them to be frank and tell you the truth about whether your tempos are appropriate and whether you are giving the people enough time to find the hymns.

I started taking organ lessons last year from a very experienced music director/pipe organist, and he has really helped me with setting proper tempos, playing clear introductions, and giving the people a chance to breathe during the songs. Yes, I’ve played (piano) in church for over 40 years, and thought I knew a lot, but there’s always more to learn.

So ask for “professional” help. It’s possible that even though you can easily handle a faster tempo, others may have trouble reading fast enough to connect the words with the music, and they may be getting left behind. It’s also possible that you truly are rushing them to find the hymns in the hymnal, even if you think you are giving them plenty of time.

Thanks for all your work in your parish! I love cantors!

 

[YoungTradCath]

Unless you get more of the same criticisms, I’d ignore the man if I were you. If you do sing well, and I have no doubt that you do, then continue your current practice. Sing the chant, sing the hymns, sing them beautifully!

I am not a professional singer. However, it strikes me as rather odd that someone would complain about being given time to “find” the music, especially when numbers are clearly posted. I don’t think this is a valid criticism. The songs have to start when the songs have to start, period.

 

[kkollwitz]

We never have this problem of catching up. The organist always plays enough intro to allow the people to find their places in the hymnal.

 

[adventdoula]

Being a mother of several young children, I can appreciate what I believe this man was saying. Often by the time I am able to set a kid aside long enough to grab a book, find the hymn, pry crinkled pages from one toddlers hands, make sure the older children have found the page, etc. the song is half done. It’s part of my vocation and place in life, so I am not complaining, but I can understand the frustration, especially since I am a convert and still have the Protestant singing in my blood, lol.

I don’t think the man was really complaining about your tempo, but the fact that they don’t have time to find the hymn to be able to participate. Since you are singing a Capella this does pose a difficulty in that you can’t just extend the intro. One local parish we have been to, solves the dilemma in a Protestant fashion for the hymns by asking the congregation to join them in singing hymn ___, and repeats this info again, then gives a few seconds pause before beginning the hymn.

Either way, you are there serving The Lord, and I’m sure your singing and leading is a blessing to your parish!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

When I read this thread, I think, “Overheads.” Why not?

.

Because when technology fails, no one can sing.



and technology ALWAYS fails.

(Also, not having the music notation is really a bummer.)

 

[TheRealJuliane]

We never have this problem of catching up. The organist always plays enough intro to allow the people to find their places in the hymnal.

But the OP doesn’t have an accompanist - she’s singing a capella.

 

[AnastasiaRomano]

I’ve never approached them about it, but our church’s cantor and pianist routinely sing familiar songs at about 10-15 bpm faster than I’m used to. I’m an OK singer – not professionally trained, but many years of choir experience and some private voice lessons. The tempos they pick sometimes make it difficult for me to keep up, to say nothing of those in the pews who have no vocal training at all. Though the tempos they choose sound very joyful, a lot of the time it ends up being the cantor singing alone, with a few parishioners and the priest sporadically singing when they can keep up.

All of that said: I have no idea whether the tempos you’re choosing are appropriate or not, since I don’t know what songs that man was referring to. Maybe the concern was specific to this one man, maybe it wasn’t. Hard to say since we don’t know your parish. But it is something to think about. You don’t need to change anything right away, but maybe you can try to pay more attention at the next few Masses – does it look like people are trying to sing along, but struggling to keep up? Etc. After that, maybe you could talk with the pastor and see if he has any thoughts on the tempos or the music selection.

God bless you for serving your parish with your singing!

 

[ellzeena]

First of all, as a professional musician, I’ve learned to take all criticism with a bit of those grains of salt you’ve heard so much about. The good critique is often times over deserved and the bad criticism is certainly not always well advised either. There is usually truth somewhere in the middle. I’ve had performances where critics have given great reviews (and, to my mind, they weren’t well deserved) and performances that were outstanding (and the critics either disliked them or it went unnoticed). I’d try best not to rely on critiques and go by your own understanding and training.

Now, as far as leading the people in the pews–one does have to be sensitive to the fact that they don’t have the training that you do. They also don’t always respond very quickly to new things. You must allow time for pages to be found, books to be dropped and then picked back up, coughs to be suppressed, and children to be hushed. You can then hopefully have the organist/pianist play through the hymn or response once, then sing it through for them once by yourself, and then have them join you. That way, they’ve had plenty of time to find the music, listen a bit, and then make their attempt with your help.

Most hymns do not have tempo markings and so there isn’t a way to sing the hymn via the tempo that “is written”. You have to provide a tempo that is of good taste and in respect to the text—and of course, to the Mass itself. No, you don’t race through the “Sanctus” or any other part. But, you don’t drag either. Sometimes, it’s not a matter of you singing too fast–it is a matter of the congregation singing too slow—or “listening too slow”!!! Whatever you do, remember that singing at Mass as a canto is no performing like in a theater or onstage. You are not there to impress—but to express. Lead—don’t concertize. And if they don’t want to follow you, you just keep on leading.

Thank you. Yes I know this is not a performance, and my job is to help people learn hymns by repeating them often enough, but rehearsing one during Mass would not be okay, it would put far too much focus on this ancillary part of the Mass imho. Also I have no accompanist, I sing a Capella, so there is no bridge between voice and announcement of song number, page. I am an EM at another parish and today I paid close attention to the way songs were introduced in that church. The huge difference is not that people have more time to find the hymn (I see many stumbling through the Missal after the music has begun), it’s the lack of accompaniment which removes several seconds (or more) between announcement and voice. This situation is unique and I guess it wasn’t so much his request but his manner which was angry, almost accusatory, quite critical, all within feet of the Blessed Sacrament.

 

[ellzeena]

I’ve never approached them about it, but our church’s cantor and pianist routinely sing familiar songs at about 10-15 bpm faster than I’m used to. I’m an OK singer – not professionally trained, but many years of choir experience and some private voice lessons. The tempos they pick sometimes make it difficult for me to keep up, to say nothing of those in the pews who have no vocal training at all. Though the tempos they choose sound very joyful, a lot of the time it ends up being the cantor singing alone, with a few parishioners and the priest sporadically singing when they can keep up.

All of that said: I have no idea whether the tempos you’re choosing are appropriate or not, since I don’t know what songs that man was referring to. Maybe the concern was specific to this one man, maybe it wasn’t. Hard to say since we don’t know your parish. But it is something to think about. You don’t need to change anything right away, but maybe you can try to pay more attention at the next few Masses – does it look like people are trying to sing along, but struggling to keep up? Etc. After that, maybe you could talk with the pastor and see if he has any thoughts on the tempos or the music selection.

God bless you for serving your parish with your singing!

Thank you. Actually, the congregation does sing and I am quite careful to perform as the hymn is intended/written (although I do often take it down one half step to one full step to accommodate the untrained voices). I think I will take your advice and pay extra attention to how many really are singing, sort of hard to do when I’m standing at the front side of the church not actually facing the congregation. If I see more people fumbling around trying to find the page, I will give a bit more time between announcement and start of song.

 

[Sarabande]

I’m a professional singer (mezzo-soprano) as well, and I also regularly cantor at a couple parishes. You received a lot of good advice already and so I will try to not to repeat what has already been mentioned.

I think that unless there are more similar critiques, you can take this one as a grain of salt. There will always be criticism and praise and, as you know, you have to learn how to sift through it all to figure out what is and what is not worth paying attention to. Perhaps bring up the person’s critique with the pastor or another person you trust and then ask him/her if there should be anything you need to change. Another idea, which I’ve done when the organ would break down or we just didn’t have an organist, is that after I announce the hymn, I sing in my head an introduction to the hymn as if the organist is play and then start into the hymn. That can give more time to find the page. Another thing I do is announce the clearly and slowly like, "Our offertory hymn is number 5-2-1, “Humbly We Adore You”. Number 5-2-1. I changed it to that because a couple elderly people requested that I do that rather than say “521”. It was easier for them to catch and find the page numbers.

In terms of tempo, there are a lot of Catholic churches which do take every hymn like a funeral dirge. So if you take a hymn at moderato or andante that is like vivace for them. A good accompanist can help drive the tempo and hold it all together to support the congregation. Unfortunately, because it’s a capella, supporting the congregation with a lone voice can be a daunting challenge. There will be lots of people who will want to take it their speed. What is fortunate is that you are a professionally-trained singer and can keep the tempo steady without being pushed by others who may want to go at a funeral dirge pace. Oh… just had a thought… is the person who gave you that critique a regular there? Would you be able to ask him/her how slow he thinks the hymns should go? That may give you an idea of what he means by being too fast. He might only want it slightly slower or he may want a funeral dirge. If the latter, then I would definitely not take it that slow. It’s hard on untrained singers in terms of breath support and thus keeping on pitch… especially without accompaniment.

With your question regarding changing the Latin to English, I would keep the Latin and the chants. If others are singing, don’t change for one person… unless everyone is complaining. Also, because you have no instrumental accompaniment and know how to chant and lead the chant, that is the ideal music to be using. Another thing we’ve done is sing the hymn in Latin first and then go to the English if needed.

Hope some of this helps.

 

[Sarabande]

Thank you. Actually, the congregation does sing and I am quite careful to perform as the hymn is intended/written (although I do often take it down one half step to one full step to accommodate the untrained voices). I think I will take your advice and pay extra attention to how many really are singing, sort of hard to do when I’m standing at the front side of the church not actually facing the congregation. If I see more people fumbling around trying to find the page, I will give a bit more time between announcement and start of song.

Do you have anyone who can sit in the pews for you and pay attention to who is singing and who is not? I know that sometimes it’s difficult to tell from where we stand as a cantor. Having another set of eyes and ears can help.

 

[ellzeena]

I’m a professional singer (mezzo-soprano) as well, and I also regularly cantor at a couple parishes. You received a lot of good advice already and so I will try to not to repeat what has already been mentioned.

I think that unless there are more similar critiques, you can take this one as a grain of salt. There will always be criticism and praise and, as you know, you have to learn how to sift through it all to figure out what is and what is not worth paying attention to. Perhaps bring up the person’s critique with the pastor or another person you trust and then ask him/her if there should be anything you need to change. Another idea, which I’ve done when the organ would break down or we just didn’t have an organist, is that after I announce the hymn, I sing in my head an introduction to the hymn as if the organist is play and then start into the hymn. That can give more time to find the page. Another thing I do is announce the clearly and slowly like, "Our offertory hymn is number 5-2-1, “Humbly We Adore You”. Number 5-2-1. I changed it to that because a couple elderly people requested that I do that rather than say “521”. It was easier for them to catch and find the page numbers.

In terms of tempo, there are a lot of Catholic churches which do take every hymn like a funeral dirge. So if you take a hymn at moderato or andante that is like vivace for them. A good accompanist can help drive the tempo and hold it all together to support the congregation. Unfortunately, because it’s a capella, supporting the congregation with a lone voice can be a daunting challenge. There will be lots of people who will want to take it their speed. What is fortunate is that you are a professionally-trained singer and can keep the tempo steady without being pushed by others who may want to go at a funeral dirge pace. Oh… just had a thought… is the person who gave you that critique a regular there? Would you be able to ask him/her how slow he thinks the hymns should go? That may give you an idea of what he means by being too fast. He might only want it slightly slower or he may want a funeral dirge. If the latter, then I would definitely not take it that slow. It’s hard on untrained singers in terms of breath support and thus keeping on pitch… especially without accompaniment.

With your question regarding changing the Latin to English, I would keep the Latin and the chants. If others are singing, don’t change for one person… unless everyone is complaining. Also, because you have no instrumental accompaniment and know how to chant and lead the chant, that is the ideal music to be using. Another thing we’ve done is sing the hymn in Latin first and then go to the English if needed.

Hope some of this helps.

Terrific and helpful response, you really DO understand. Actually, this man told me he is a “musician” so I asked if he would care to be my accompanist. He then said no, he doesn’t play an instrument, and he can’t sight sing or read music, he plays the drums. Ooooook then, that’s sorta like me saying I’m a dentist because I’ve spent hundreds of hours in dental chairs in my lifetime LOL. Actually this congregation, many members, have told me how thrilled they are to have me and that my use of the “old” Catholic hymns and chants makes them very happy. So…I saw Cat post that if I go on as usual (with some more attention to introduction, exactly as you have suggested) this guy might actually think he HAS “corrected” me in my error filled ways LOL. The priest was actually in the sacristy divesting himself and heard this entire exchange. At the door on my way out, he was standing and waiting for me to give me a big hug and a special blessing for my music ministry, his way of trying to wipe away the smut of a rude, and angry, person directed at me. This priest is actually quite amazing, and that’s a strong reason for me to do this at this time in my life which is actually quite difficult. Thanks so much for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[superamazingman]

When I read this thread, I think, “Overheads.” Why not?

I know a lot of Catholics are utterly opposed, and I can understand why they don’t want to see projections in one of the beautiful old churches that doesn’t have a clear space on which to project them.

But if it’s physically possible, projecting overheads eliminates the fumbling with hymnals (especially children, who are not always kind to the paper hymnals), and allows people who can’t see well to easily be able to read the words and join in the singing.

For people who don’t ever sing during worship, the words are right there in their face so they are forced to at least read through them and perhaps meditate upon their meaning, and possibly even pray the song through in their hearts.

The disadvantage with overheads is that for music readers, there is no music to read. However, most music readers are pretty comfortable finding hymns quickly in a hymnal. And after all, Catholic hymnals and missalettes, for some strange reason, don’t print anything except the melody line anyway, if that. Sigh.

Frankly, I think that before Catholic churches accept the idea of using overheads, we will see people using their iPhones to follow along in the Mass, including the hymns and songs. Again, I know that many Catholics are utterly opposed at this time, but I think it will happen, and probably soon. It is an innovation that would make Mass more quiet, orderly, and reverent, not the other way around.

Frankly, when I see this thread, I think “hymn boards.” If people want to sing the recessional hymn, they won’t be surprised when it starts after the dismissal.

On Sundays, I announce the number and go right into the hymn. The numbers are posted, if they want to sing, they can sing. The board is set up the same every week, so there’s no surprises. They DO know what will be the next hymn, if they want to.

However, if there’s no hymn board (or I don’t use it, such as at daily Masses), then yes, I wait a while for people to get hymnals open.

Another parish I know doesn’t even do announcements. They have hymn numbers posted in 4 highly visible yet unobtrusive places. It’s one of the best singing Catholic congregations I know of in the area. All this to say that if you have a hymn board, announcements aren’t really even necessary.

 

[Sarabande]

Frankly, when I see this thread, I think “hymn boards.” If people want to sing the recessional hymn, they won’t be surprised when it starts after the dismissal.

On Sundays, I announce the number and go right into the hymn. The numbers are posted, if they want to sing, they can sing. The board is set up the same every week, so there’s no surprises. They DO know what will be the next hymn, if they want to.

However, if there’s no hymn board (or I don’t use it, such as at daily Masses), then yes, I wait a while for people to get hymnals open.

Another parish I know doesn’t even do announcements. They have hymn numbers posted in 4 highly visible yet unobtrusive places. It’s one of the best singing Catholic congregations I know of in the area. All this to say that if you have a hymn board, announcements aren’t really even necessary.

The OP mentioned that the hymn numbers are clearly posted at every mass, so I don’t think the problem is not having hymn boards - at least at her parish. I agree that hymn boards can and do help, although for someone like me who is near-sighted, I always had a difficult time reading the hymn boards, so I depended on the announcement by the cantor. I remember sitting next to two old ladies at a parish which used hymn boards. They announcement was made, but they couldn’t hear the cantor, nor could they see the hymn board. I had to help them find the page number in their hymnals. I think that is often the problem… older people (or even younger people) who don’t have the best faculties to see well or hear well. Overheads or hymn boards won’t help them.

One of the parishes I work at as a cantor doesn’t use hymn boards or overheads (Overheads are not really a popular thing in this part of the East coast where older, traditional church buildings are more common.) has an excellent singing congregation. They sing what is familiar to them or something new which they’ve sung a number of times. At one of the masses, I often hear people in the pews on one side of the church singing harmony. It’s wonderful to hear and I always want to go over after mass and find out the people doing it so that I can thank them for singing, but the church is too crowded and it’s a little strange and uncomfortable to go seek those people out after mass.

 

[Sarabande]

Terrific and helpful response, you really DO understand. Actually, this man told me he is a “musician” so I asked if he would care to be my accompanist. He then said no, he doesn’t play an instrument, and he can’t sight sing or read music, he plays the drums. Ooooook then, that’s sorta like me saying I’m a dentist because I’ve spent hundreds of hours in dental chairs in my lifetime LOL. Actually this congregation, many members, have told me how thrilled they are to have me and that my use of the “old” Catholic hymns and chants makes them very happy. So…I saw Cat post that if I go on as usual (with some more attention to introduction, exactly as you have suggested) this guy might actually think he HAS “corrected” me in my error filled ways LOL. The priest was actually in the sacristy divesting himself and heard this entire exchange. At the door on my way out, he was standing and waiting for me to give me a big hug and a special blessing for my music ministry, his way of trying to wipe away the smut of a rude, and angry, person directed at me. This priest is actually quite amazing, and that’s a strong reason for me to do this at this time in my life which is actually quite difficult. Thanks so much for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

You’re welcome! I’m glad some of it was helpful. So funny about his response to you after you asked if he would want to accompany. I once had someone tell me that I wasn’t a “musician” because I was a singer, after he asked me what i did for a living and i told him I was a musician. Note: This man was not a musician, did not play an instrument, nor could read a note of music. His reasoning was not the typical reasoning often associated with singers (all classical singers get that joke: she’s a soprano AND a musician). It was because I didn’t “play” an instrument. lol!!! I won’t go into that anymore here. I’m sure you can appreciate everything that goes with that.

Just knowing that many in the congregation appreciate what you are doing for the parish and like the fact that you are using chants and “old” hymns is a good sign. And you are so fortunate to have a priest like yours. I’m glad that he was there to overhear the exchange and supported you. That is truly a blessing. It’s sometimes hard not to take things personally, especially when it is dealing with something that organically comes from you and what you treat as a prayer. You did the right thing by showing the gentleman respect and not blowing up back at him. And you know, sometimes older people (I’m assuming the gentleman was older) don’t realize they are coming off as rude or angry OR they start off that way because they are waiting to come across a fight. I find it disarms them when you respond with kindness and charity.

:hug1: I am quite certain you are doing a wonderful job there!!!