Cantor!

[I_Thirst]

I’ve just started learning how to cantor at my UGCC.

For the cantors among us in various ECs, how did you learn? What materials did you use to learn, and what do you use now at DL? Can you read music? Etc!!!

 

[Alveus_Lacuna]

I’ve just started learning how to cantor at my UGCC.

Incorrect English alert!

You’ve either “just started learning how to chant”, or “just started training to be a cantor.”

“Cantor” is not a verb, it is a noun.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I’ve just started learning how to cantor at my UGCC.

For the cantors among us in various ECs, how did you learn? What materials did you use to learn, and what do you use now at DL? Can you read music? Etc!!!

My friend was the cantor at our parish. Then he moved. Then we had a subdeacon who teaches cantoring come in for a weekend of workshops. I attended that (or part of it, work prevented me from being there all the time).

Then the rest is about guts.

I can’t read music to save my life, I did this in part because there’s no one to lead the singing on many occasions so I can pitch in. I can remember melodies. I also have a CD of our our book (do you use it?) “The Divine Liturgy, An Anthology for Worship”. I just use that to practice. I remember mostly what melodies our previous cantor used and just use the same ones.

 

[I_Thirst]

Incorrect English alert!

You’ve either “just started learning how to chant”, or “just started training to be a cantor.”

“Cantor” is not a verb, it is a noun.

So you can’t cantor?

By the way, you have a common splice in your first sentence. In your second sentence, a semicolon would be more appropriate than the comma – though a period could also be used.

My friend was the cantor at our parish. Then he moved. Then we had a subdeacon who teaches cantoring come in for a weekend of workshops. I attended that (or part of it, work prevented me from being there all the time).

Then the rest is about guts.

I can’t read music to save my life, I did this in part because there’s no one to lead the singing on many occasions so I can pitch in. I can remember melodies. I also have a CD of our our book (do you use it?) “The Divine Liturgy, An Anthology for Worship”. I just use that to practice. I remember mostly what melodies our previous cantor used and just use the same ones.

I’ve borrowed a copy of the Anthology and I’ve used the tones for the Troparion etc at one DL. I’ve just about learned the English setting, and I had a chance to run through it on Weds with Father.

We don’t use the Anthology on Sunday, for everyone responds in Ukr (even though the priest and deacon use English). I haven’t heard the CD yet.

 

[Melchior_1]

So you can’t cantor?

I would have went with Can’tor.



PS: Congrads!!

 

[ConstantineTG]

I’ve borrowed a copy of the Anthology and I’ve used the tones for the Troparion etc at one DL. I’ve just about learned the English setting, and I had a chance to run through it on Weds with Father.

We don’t use the Anthology on Sunday, for everyone responds in Ukr (even though the priest and deacon use English). I haven’t heard the CD yet.

The CD is great. There is a sample of all the 8 tones there so you can get the rhythm and the melody then apply it to the Troparia for the week. Plus all the other hymns, some have 2 or 3 variations. Its great for someone like me who can’t read notes, I have somewhere to learn the melodies from.

 

[I_Thirst]

I would have went with Can’tor.

Even better!

The CD is great. There is a sample of all the 8 tones there so you can get the rhythm and the melody then apply it to the Troparia for the week. Plus all the other hymns, some have 2 or 3 variations. Its great for someone like me who can’t read notes, I have somewhere to learn the melodies from.

The CD would be great! It would be great to be able to listen to it in the car. I’ve been listening to the Anthology settings sung at St Elias.

Right now, I’ve only learned Tones 6-8 (learning them as the week dicates). Recently I’ve been trying to set them to various texts, including the weekday troparia.

Father said that he would like me to learn some simpler settings of the hymns etc for the weekday DLs, but in the meantime to stick with the ones I’m learning for Sundays (even though we aren’t currently using English).

Do the CDs have the various irmoi?

 

[wjp984]

Incorrect English alert!

You’ve either “just started learning how to chant”, or “just started training to be a cantor.”

“Cantor” is not a verb, it is a noun.

Seems like a verb to me. I mean in Spanish, cantar is to sing and I think it is either canere or cantus in Latin. So, I see no reason why cantor cannot be a verb. It is not gramatically speaking a verb in Enlgish, but it should be.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Do the CDs have the various irmoi?

No. Not sure if it has one or two, they are just samples so one can reference the Tones from it.

 

[5Loaves]

By the way, you have a** common splice** in your first sentence.

BTW, you have a typo.

 

[smad0142]

Where can the CD’s be purchased?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Where can the CD’s be purchased?

The CD for the Anthology?

Its here: sheptytskyinstitute.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/publications-order-form-20101028.pdf

 

[smad0142]

Thanks!

 

[I_Thirst]

No. Not sure if it has one or two, they are just samples so one can reference the Tones from it.

Ok. There are quite a few in the Anthology. I’ve been working up the Irmos for Dec 9 on p740.

Question – on p739 it says “Irmos, Tone 1” and then the text below it, but on the next page there is a setting. I’d guess that one can either chant it to Tone 1 or use the music provided, right?

BTW, you have a typo.

A common one, right?

 

[5Loaves]

A common one, right?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Ok. There are quite a few in the Anthology. I’ve been working up the Irmos for Dec 9 on p740.

Question – on p739 it says “Irmos, Tone 1” and then the text below it, but on the next page there is a setting. I’d guess that one can either chant it to Tone 1 or use the music provided, right?

If variations can be used, then its up to the Cantor, really. We don’t follow the tones because we don’t have the ability to :blush:

 

[MarkosC]

I’ve just started learning how to cantor at my UGCC.

For the cantors among us in various ECs, how did you learn? What materials did you use to learn, and what do you use now at DL? Can you read music? Etc!!!

IMO:

The only way to learn is to learn is by doing. That means standing at the cantor’s stand for years, and learning why X done at a particular time. Another important part for me was doing Reader’s Vespers and Orthros. I unfortunately do not pray them every day, but the fact that I know how to do those Services at church because I’ve prayed them hundreds of times at home is veery helpful.

Next, having ALL of the necessary books (horologion, menaion, tridion, etc.) and be able to navigate them. I learned how to do it on my own, though parish use and visits to monateries helped. This unfortunately is expensive, and can be difficult because Catholic and Orthodox jurisdiction it seems has translations of varying (unforutnaltey, generally indifferent) quality. Sometimes his would mean that you use different translations at home and at church.

Third, having CDs of the best folks of your tradition pray the services is crucial. (and use only the best for models - this is an area where quality of output is a function of quality of data) And having enough that to have representative CD tracks of all the Textual forms and tones.

Fourth, the ability to read/learn/practice music on your own.

Fiftth, a decent grasp of at least basic theology. At least enough that you’re comfortable with the terms and concepts in basic pastoral theology books or catechisms. Knowing the history/theology behind the services is equally important, but in the intermediate/asvanced level. Note that this is also an area where the quality of the results is a function of hte quality of data.

Most importantly, of course, is that God wants you to lead the His people in singing and understanding not only what that means but also being able to make that happen in truth. Having a strong spiritual iife is a key part of this.

Apologies for any typos, I need to take off to church.

 

[I_Thirst]

If variations can be used, then its up to the Cantor, really. We don’t follow the tones because we don’t have the ability to :blush:

IMO:

The only way to learn is to learn is by doing. That means standing at the cantor’s stand for years, and learning why X done at a particular time. Another important part for me was doing Reader’s Vespers and Orthros. I unfortunately do not pray them every day, but the fact that I know how to do those Services at church because I’ve prayed them hundreds of times at home is veery helpful.

Next, having ALL of the necessary books (horologion, menaion, tridion, etc.) and be able to navigate them. I learned how to do it on my own, though parish use and visits to monateries helped. This unfortunately is expensive, and can be difficult because Catholic and Orthodox jurisdiction it seems has translations of varying (unforutnaltey, generally indifferent) quality. Sometimes his would mean that you use different translations at home and at church.

Third, having CDs of the best folks of your tradition pray the services is crucial. (and use only the best for models - this is an area where quality of output is a function of quality of data) And having enough that to have representative CD tracks of all the Textual forms and tones.

Fourth, the ability to read/learn/practice music on your own.

Fiftth, a decent grasp of at least basic theology. At least enough that you’re comfortable with the terms and concepts in basic pastoral theology books or catechisms. Knowing the history/theology behind the services is equally important, but in the intermediate/asvanced level. Note that this is also an area where the quality of the results is a function of hte quality of data.

Most importantly, of course, is that God wants you to lead the His people in singing and understanding not only what that means but also being able to make that happen in truth. Having a strong spiritual iife is a key part of this.

Apologies for any typos, I need to take off to church.

Thank you for your insight, Markos!

 

[ByzKat]

Ok. There are quite a few in the Anthology. I’ve been working up the Irmos for Dec 9 on p740.

Question – on p739 it says “Irmos, Tone 1” and then the text below it, but on the next page there is a setting. I’d guess that one can either chant it to Tone 1 or use the music provided, right?

To the very wise words of MarkosC above, I would add: you also need to learn (over time) the inner workings of your chant system.

There is not just one “Tone 1” melody; Tone 1 is a family of melodies for use with troparia, stichera, prokeimena - generally, a different melody for each “class” of texts.

In the Slavic chant tradition, there is a different melody for every single irmos, made up of a stock of melodic phrases associated with each tone, but fitted (long ago) to the text of each irmos. Generally, speaking, you need to either learn the music for the irmos, or else use whatever substitute your chant tradition provides. (For example, in the Rusyn prostopinoije tradition, you would sing it to the melody of the irmos for the first ode of the Resurrection Canon in Tone 6, which is dead easy.) You would not otherwise sing it as if it were, say, a Tone 6 troparion.

Here is a pointer to the prostopinije version of the same irmos:

metropolitancantorinstitute.org/books/DL/page?280

and on the previous page is the “simple” version of the same melody:

metropolitancantorinstitute.org/books/DL/page?279

 

[I_Thirst]

To the very wise words of MarkosC above, I would add: you also need to learn (over time) the inner workings of your chant system.

There is not just one “Tone 1” melody; Tone 1 is a family of melodies for use with troparia, stichera, prokeimena - generally, a different melody for each “class” of texts.

In the Slavic chant tradition, there is a different melody for every single irmos, made up of a stock of melodic phrases associated with each tone, but fitted (long ago) to the text of each irmos. Generally, speaking, you need to either learn the music for the irmos, or else use whatever substitute your chant tradition provides. (For example, in the Rusyn prostopinoije tradition, you would sing it to the melody of the irmos for the first ode of the Resurrection Canon in Tone 6, which is dead easy.) You would not otherwise sing it as if it were, say, a Tone 6 troparion.

Here is a pointer to the prostopinije version of the same irmos:

metropolitancantorinstitute.org/books/DL/page?280

and on the previous page is the “simple” version of the same melody:

metropolitancantorinstitute.org/books/DL/page?279

Thank you, ByzKat, for further insight!

Since I’m already learning the music for the Irmos, I’ll probably use it next week. Today, the deacon told me that, if needed, I could sing it to the tone of the week as a default. I just assumed that he meant the Troparion, but I see your point – it could be the Kondakion, Prokeimenon, etc.

btw, the first Irmos that you provided the link is very similar to the one I’m learning now. Words are close and the melody has a similar contour.

I really do appreciate all the (name removed by moderator)ut. I know so little and there is so much to learn. If there is anything, no matter how small or basic, that anyone thinks that I should know, let me know!