Capoeira Specifically

[Sabeth123]

I am very attracted to the movement, intuitiveness and even some of the sounds of the unique instruments used in a Brasilian Martial Art called Capoeira.

I found a place nearby that offers it and was planning on trying it when I get the chance. Meanwhile I have been looking up the History on it and even downloaded a book about it. I am finding that it seems to be intertwined with African rituals and spiritualism.

I was wondering if there was anyway that I could do Capoeira without taking part in a faulse religion and without calling down spirits into the Capoeira circle? Is there anyone familiar enough with Capoeira to help me answer this question?

 

[Runner_grrrl]

Not familiar with the movement or the history behind it, but I have tried some of the movements (actions) in a fusion exercise DVD and they are fun! But that’s me in my own house, not with a group of others who may be “calling down” the spirits as you say. I wouldn’t chance it if I thought others were into the capoeira for the spiritual benefits. Just get a DVD and exercise at home. Saying a prayer before hand for G-d to protect you.

 

[Sabeth123]

Runner Girrrl,

Thanks for the reply
You are right…until I find out more I am not going to chance it. Can I ask the name of the video you mentioned?

PS…I used to be a runner girl too

 

[Arrependida]

I am very attracted to the movement, intuitiveness and even some of the sounds of the unique instruments used in a Brasilian Martial Art called Capoeira.

I found a place nearby that offers it and was planning on trying it when I get the chance. Meanwhile I have been looking up the History on it and even downloaded a book about it. I am finding that it seems to be intertwined with African rituals and spiritualism.

I was wondering if there was anyway that I could do Capoeira without taking part in a faulse religion and without calling down spirits into the Capoeira circle? Is there anyone familiar enough with Capoeira to help me answer this question?

Hi, I am from Brazil. Yes, Capoeira is fun, and nowadays practiced as a sport. It started as a disguised Martial Art among the black slaves in colonial Brazil. Many of the songs they play are actually liturgical rithyms used in Candomblé cults (afro Brazilian religion similar to Voodoo and santeria). In these religions drumming and also clapping of hands, are used to call down the spirits on the mediums, who during the cult itself are generally dressed in special liturgical clothes and dancing special liturgical dance that portrays the spirit (actually demon) they are calling down.
You can do Capoeira without getting involved with Afro Brazilian Religion, but it is like doing Yoga then singing their mantras, doing their meditation practices and then pretend you are just doing yoga as a sport.
It is going to be hard to separate the sport from the historical, cultural religious background. Specially if the teacher is a Brazilian who is involved with some afro brazilian religion, or is open minded about it.
Good luck anyway…

 

[Runner_grrrl]

Runner Girrrl,

Thanks for the reply
You are right…until I find out more I am not going to chance it. Can I ask the name of the video you mentioned?

PS…I used to be a runner girl too

Jillian Michaels ummmmm I think it is Shed and Shred. I have all her videos so they get mixed up sometimes. Level 1 is fun Level 2 is killer!

 

[PrayRosary]

I think you are too paranoid. It is just a workout. If it matters to you, Brazil is like 90% Catholic. Om another note, How many people do you know that have become possessed by doing yoga? Exactly. But most the people on CAF act like yoga is worshipping the devil.

 

[Sabeth123]

Arrependida,

Thank you so much for your Brazilian perspective and response. Out of the explanations I have found on the internet and from the book I am reading about Capoeira, your explanation seems to be the most well put and just rings true to me.

 

[Sabeth123]

PrayRosary,

I wish that was true (that it was just paranoid thinking) because I really want to be able to do it without running into trouble…and originally I thought it was fine…but even if you saw the translations of the songs you sing with their meanings you might see that it is very much beyond paranoid thinking…including chants to faulse gods. Not to mention many other points…particularly about inviting the spirits of past Capoeira players into the circle that you play in.

There is a lot to consider.

 

[Arrependida]

If it matters to you, Brazil is like 90% Catholic. Om another note, How many people do you know that have become possessed by doing yoga? Exactly. But most the people on CAF act like yoga is worshipping the devil.

Hi, I am Brazilian. Brazil is not really 90% Catholic. This is a myth. Around 70% Brazilians may be baptized as Catholics as infants for traditional reasons, cultural reasons. From those maybe not even around 10% go to catholic church every sunday. And from the 10 %, I dare to say only a few also live a catholic way of life. Afro Brazilian religions have a very strong following, even though the statistic does not show much. That is so because when asked about their religious affiliation, many so called catholics in Brazil will say they are catholic, but they actually do their worship in the “Terreiros de Macumba” (afro brazilian cult) every friday, where they play their drums and call on the evil spirits. Black magic is a commom thing and affects people’s everyday life (health, love life, employment and even politics). In the recent decades a lot of “Catholics” in Brazil have been converting into protestant churches, mostly those Pentecostal kind of churches that have those services to drive the devil out of you, healing services and such. If they were really catholic they would not need those services, now would they? Fact is, a lot of people in Brazil are involved with those pagan religions, and then when they want to get freed from all the disgrace it causes in their life, they tend to turn to the pentecostals, and not to the Catholic church, which in Brazil, by the way, has become so liberal, so liberation theology, that it is hard to find a priest that believes in spiritual realities like the devil, and such.
Instead of taking care of peoples soul, it is all about Social Justice…

 

[PrayRosary]

Hi, I am Brazilian. Brazil is not really 90% Catholic. This is a myth. Around 70% Brazilians may be baptized as Catholics as infants for traditional reasons, cultural reasons. From those maybe not even around 10% go to catholic church every sunday. And from the 10 %, I dare to say only a few also live a catholic way of life. Afro Brazilian religions have a very strong following, even though the statistic does not show much. That is so because when asked about their religious affiliation, many so called catholics in Brazil will say they are catholic, but they actually do their worship in the “Terreiros de Macumba” (afro brazilian cult) every friday, where they play their drums and call on the evil spirits. Black magic is a commom thing and affects people’s everyday life (health, love life, employment and even politics). In the recent decades a lot of “Catholics” in Brazil have been converting into protestant churches, mostly those Pentecostal kind of churches that have those services to drive the devil out of you, healing services and such. If they were really catholic they would not need those services, now would they? Fact is, a lot of people in Brazil are involved with those pagan religions, and then when they want to get freed from all the disgrace it causes in their life, they tend to turn to the pentecostals, and not to the Catholic church, which in Brazil, by the way, has become so liberal, so liberation theology, that it is hard to find a priest that believes in spiritual realities like the devil, and such.
Instead of taking care of peoples soul, it is all about Social Justice…

Thank you for the personal insight, I did not know all that.

sabeth123: i didnt realize that there was chanting involved. I thought it was just dancing mixed wth fancy kicks. If that is the case i dont blame you at all for being concerned.

 

[Arrependida]

Om another note, How many people do you know that have become possessed by doing yoga? Exactly. But most the people on CAF act like yoga is worshipping the devil.

If you do the Yoga movements only, then yes, you are right, yoga might be done just as a sport.
I was a serious yoga practioner before my convertion, and most of the time after the session, we also sung mantras that invoked hindu deities, and did hindu meditation and other ascetic practices.
Now as a catholic, I can’t see myself doing that anymore. The whole Yoga thing has no appeal to me anymore because, I know, if done correctly, there is more to it than just the yoga postures.

Now with Capoeira. In every Capoeira session one will sing and drum and clap "pontos de macumba"which are specific liturgical songs that call the entities and other spirits to the “roda” (capoeira circle). For a white north american, it may just look like silly folklore, but there are spiritual realities being summoned there, a tradition of generations of people that have been doing those very moves, to those sounds with a specific purpose in mind…

To become good at something, one has to get involved passionately. How is one to become a great yogi or a great capoeirista, without becoming involved with all the religious, and cultural backgrounds?

 

[PrayRosary]

Now with Capoeira. In every Capoeira session one will sing and drum and clap "pontos de macumba"which are specific liturgical songs that call the entities and other spirits to the “roda” (capoeira circle). For a white north american, it may just look like silly folklore, but there are spiritual realities being summoned there, a tradition of generations of people that have been doing those very moves, to those sounds with a specific purpose in mind…

To become good at something, one has to get involved passionately. How is one to become a great yogi or a great capoeirista, without becoming involved with all the religious, and cultural backgrounds?

Yeah, I wouldnt feel comfortable with that either, thats crazy. You make some good points. I once read a book on exorcism, i think it was The Rite, and the Priest said that the hardest curses to cure were the ones from Brazil and Africa. Most often the victim could not be helped by him. This conversation reminds me of that.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

People tend to get caught up in “martial arts = religion.”

Martial arts did not develop in secular societies. Martial arts have a violent element (obviously) to it, and religion was used to temper the violence. The religion that tempered the violence is the religion of the region that the martial art developed, and that religion can change over time. One of the best known examples is what westerners call “Kung Fu” (chuan fa, chuan quan, etc.). Most people think of Kung Fu as having a Buddhist element to it. However, people forget that this martial art actually originated in India, and was originally associated with Hinduism. Nowadays, there is a secular version of this art known as “wu su.”

The point is that the religion isn’t really associated with the martial arts, but rather the religion is associated with the practitioner. Some teachers may overemphasize their religion, and/or practice rituals in class, and you may wish to avoid such teachers. I don’t think anyone should avoid an art because it may have had certain religious elements associated with it at some point in time, anymore than we should avoid associating with a certain Catholic because their family had Protestant roots.

Lastly, keep in mind that the human body only moves in so many ways, and as a result all martial arts have significant common elements. There is no hold on these moves by any particular religion.

Capoeira is not something I’ve practiced personally. I do know enough about it to say that it is great for conditioning. It is also a great art to practice (as well as kung fu/wu su) if you ever wish to enter the movie business.

 

[PrayRosary]

People tend to get caught up in “martial arts = religion.”

Martial arts did not develop in secular societies. Martial arts have a violent element (obviously) to it, and religion was used to temper the violence. The religion that tempered the violence is the religion of the region that the martial art developed, and that religion can change over time. One of the best known examples is what westerners call “Kung Fu” (chuan fa, chuan quan,D etc.). Most people think of Kung Fu as having a Buddhist element to it. However, people forget that this martial art actually originated in India, and was originally associated with Hinduism. Nowadays, there is a secular version of this art known as “wu su.”

The point is that the religion isn’t really associated with the martial arts, but rather the religion is associated with the practitioner. Some teachers may overemphasize their religion, and/or practice rituals in class, and you may wish to avoid such teachers. I don’t think anyone should avoid an art because it may have had certain religious elements associated with it at some point in time, anymore than we should avoid associating with a certain Catholic because their family had Protestant roots.

Lastly, keep in mind that the human body only moves in so many ways, and as a result all martial arts have significant common elements. There is no hold on these moves by any particular religion.

Capoeira is not something I’ve practiced personally. I do know enough about it to say that it is great for conditioning. It is also a great art to practice (as well as kung fu/wu su) if you ever wish to enter the movie business.

I totally agree with you, but my tone changed when the OP stated that chanting was involved. That is just uneccessary and should raise red flags. You make some very good points.

 

[Sabeth123]

TheWarriorMonk,

Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut! My second choice is actually to do Kung Fu/Wang Tsun. I know that you can seperate the religious aspect in that martial art especially with the right teacher and I know a good teacher in my area.

It is just too bad though that I can’t do Capoeira because it does look very fun…of course offending God and taking the risk of taking part in calling down spirits just isn’t worth the fun…that is for sure.

 

[Arrependida]

Yeah, I wouldnt feel comfortable with that either, thats crazy. You make some good points. I once read a book on exorcism, i think it was The Rite, and the Priest said that the hardest curses to cure were the ones from Brazil and Africa. Most often the victim could not be helped by him. This conversation reminds me of that.

Yeah, I know about this personally because I was a victim of a spell myself in Brazil…

On another note, doing Yoga, Capoeira, etc just for the moves is ok, but kind of a shallow way of looking or doing things. How can someone do something well without getting totally involved? Not only with the cultural background but also with the kind of crowd that generally is attracted to all this? Kind of an disrespectful, utilitarian way of looking at things, and in this case, things that have deep roots (philosophical, cultural and religious). Roots, that now as a catholic, I do not agree with, but whose background I still have to acknowledge “respectfully”. I could not pretend they are not there. When I was into Yoga, I would never do it with some clueless trainer from the gym around the block that saw it just as body movements. Serious yoga practicioners know there is more to it. If one is not really serious about something, and is not willing to go all the way, how is one supposed to get good at it?
Oh, well maybe I take everything too seriously, who knows…

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

Yeah, I know about this personally because I was a victim of a spell myself in Brazil…

On another note, doing Yoga, Capoeira, etc just for the moves is ok, but kind of a shallow way of looking or doing things. How can someone do something well without getting totally involved? Not only with the cultural background but also with the kind of crowd that generally is attracted to all this? Kind of an disrespectful, utilitarian way of looking at things, and in this case, things that have deep roots (philosophical, cultural and religious). Roots, that now as a catholic, I do not agree with, but whose background I still have to acknowledge “respectfully”. I could not pretend they are not there. When I was into Yoga, I would never do it with some clueless trainer from the gym around the block that saw it just as body movements. Serious yoga practicioners know there is more to it. If one is not really serious about something, and is not willing to go all the way, how is one supposed to get good at it?
Oh, well maybe I take everything too seriously, who knows…

There is an underlying assumption in the above that people practicing a particular art must be part or end up practicing a certain religion, or various other aspects of life. Well, how is that done? In my area, there are kung fu masters and grandmasters that are Buddhist, Christian, and Muslim. Since this is the case, how can it possibly be asserted that one must practice, say, Buddhism or its principles, when a grandmaster of a kung fu system with lineage is a Muslim?

Martial arts does not equal religion. To do so is taking the first serious step in misunderstanding martial arts.

 

[PrayRosary]

Martial arts does not equal religion. To do so is taking the first serious step in misunderstanding martial arts.

I agree, but it was the chanting by the other members of the class that made the OP concerned. I dont blame her.

 

[Runner_grrrl]

This is a little off topic, but everyone keeps mentioning Yoga. What’s the deal with that? I thought it was just a (boring) form of exercise.

 

[Baelor]

This is a little off topic, but everyone keeps mentioning Yoga. What’s the deal with that? I thought it was just a (boring) form of exercise.

It can be a boring form of exercise.

Some posters who do not understand yoga or Catholicism properly unceasingly insist that yoga is evil and derived from the Devil because they cannot comprehend the reality that a secular form exists.