Cardinal Arinze 'lays it down' on the subject of the Latin mass

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indeed, Cardinal Arinze is a very knowldgeable person, and i respect him very much
 
I have to wonder what pre VII abuses he’s referring to @ 3:05. He’s saying that there were abuses then, but the people didn’t know it because they didn’t know Latin. I’m not sure I buy that. Not at all. He’s talking about people who’d been going to the TLM all their lives. If you go to the old Mass enough times, and you have a missal, you know what’s going on.
 
I have to wonder what pre VII abuses he’s referring to @ 3:05. He’s saying that there were abuses then, but the people didn’t know it because they didn’t know Latin. I’m not sure I buy that. Not at all. He’s talking about people who’d been going to the TLM all their lives. If you go to the old Mass enough times, and you have a missal, you know what’s going on.
He’s probably referring to priests perhaps skipping a few prayers or so. But, as Mark suggested and I agree with, this could have been more that much of the Latin Mass is quiet, not so much the Latin. Not all servers were trained that well to pick up on what the priest was supposed to say, so if they had to make up for lost time to finish before the next Mass was supposed to start, this could easily be done. I have not heard that too many EF’s today are cutting corners, though. But I’d like for them to increase the volume a little bit. The spoken word has some value too.
 
He’s probably referring to priests perhaps skipping a few prayers or so. But, as Mark suggested and I agree with, this could have been more that much of the Latin Mass is quiet, not so much the Latin. Not all servers were trained that well to pick up on what the priest was supposed to say, so if they had to make up for lost time to finish before the next Mass was supposed to start, this could easily be done. I have not heard that too many EF’s today are cutting corners, though. But I’d like for them to increase the volume a little bit. The spoken word has some value too.
The special status of the EF protects it from that at this time; priests have to do extra work in order to celebrate Mass in that form, and it doesn’t seem likely that they’ll got through all the legwork and then cut a few corners when they finally get there.
 
I have to wonder what pre VII abuses he’s referring to @ 3:05. He’s saying that there were abuses then, but the people didn’t know it because they didn’t know Latin. I’m not sure I buy that. Not at all. He’s talking about people who’d been going to the TLM all their lives. If you go to the old Mass enough times, and you have a missal, you know what’s going on.
What about in places where literacy is low? Or, what about the period of time before people had Missals at Mass? I can believe it, it doesn’t surprise me at all.
 
What about in places where literacy is low? Or, what about the period of time before people had Missals at Mass? I can believe it, it doesn’t surprise me at all.
Personally, I don’t see what the “literacy rate” in a given place has to do with a person’s familiarity with, or his/her ability to pray at, Holy Mass, irrespective of language.

Even in the US, illiteracy was not all that uncommon even 50 years ago. (Actually it’s still not uncommon, but for far different reasons which I will not go into here.) I knew many “old timers” who were technically illiterate, but yet were able to follow and pray the Mass (in whatever Rite or language it may have been in) with no problem.

And before someone brings up the usual (and tired) image, no, those people were not all a bunch of “old ladies in black dresses” praying the Rosary during mass.
 
My question would have been:

Pre-Novus Ordo vs. Post-Novus Ordo vocations.

Compare and explain.

That being said, I like this man.

I agree that the VII and the NO should not be ill spoken of (Christ becomes present!) at all; however, I do not believe for an instant that the NO is comparable to the EF in any way in terms of quality. The Church wrote the NO under the concept of reaching out to the modern world and its peoples; however, converts -and especially the young ones- upon learning about the EF are drawn to it: isn’t that what the Church had always wanted?

Young people being drawn to the Faith, to its mysteries, and to its holiness. In my RCIA class those most serious and devout about the Faith went to the EF, want the EF, want Latin, want reverence, want Gregorian chant, want sacredness and solemnity, want Tradition. We are in our early 20s. Now, maybe the NO is seen as a bridge where people can start to foster a Faith comfortably, and learn the Faith; still, if that is its object -a safety net- then gear it as such. The NO is more like milk and the EF like the meat. The NO seems subject to the local culture; whereas the EF seems more like a germ for culture.

Nonetheless, I submit to Holy Mother Church’s teaching.
 
Much love to the Cardinal and many prayers for a long and healthy life.
 
You don’t need ears to hear what’s going on - you only need to open your heart to God.
Not unsurprisingly, I’ve never heard anyone report that God told them whether the priest was skipping or fudging the prayers said in a low voice.
 
Not when you can’t hear anything.
As with the Low Mass? I disagree. If you know the parts of the Mass, than essentially you know what the priest is doing. Obviously, you wouldn’t get the propers, but usually the Epistle and the Gospel read in the vernacular after they’re read in the Latin.

No, really there’s very little room for abuse in the old Mass. It’s very precise.
 
He’s probably referring to priests perhaps skipping a few prayers or so. But, as Mark suggested and I agree with, this could have been more that much of the Latin Mass is quiet, not so much the Latin. Not all servers were trained that well to pick up on what the priest was supposed to say, so if they had to make up for lost time to finish before the next Mass was supposed to start, this could easily be done. I have not heard that too many EF’s today are cutting corners, though. But I’d like for them to increase the volume a little bit. The spoken word has some value too.
Many of the prayers are supposed to be said inaudibly.
 
Not unsurprisingly, I’ve never heard anyone report that God told them whether the priest was skipping or fudging the prayers said in a low voice.
The implication there is that sotto voce prayers are often “fudged” and/or skipped. Think whatever you want, but it seems to me that would be taking things just a wee a bit over the line.

FWLIW, I pray the Latin along with the celebrant, and usually we’re at the same place at the same time (or if not the same same place, then I’m ahead of him). OK, it’s usually the same celebrant, but not always, and even when the celebrant is different, we’re not too far apart. In any case, while it may exist elsewhere, I haven’t experienced “fudging” or skipping.
 
Many of the prayers are supposed to be said inaudibly.
Actually some of them, like the Canon, are supposed to be said in a low tone but that could be a relative term as well. Lower than the other prayers which then could be said louder as well? In High Mass, however, this may not be such an issue as people would probably follow what the choir is singing rather than what is said at the altar. Always made it a challenge for us servers to respond at the Prayers at the Foot of the Altar with the choir singing the Introit. 🙂
 
The implication there is that sotto voce prayers are often “fudged” and/or skipped. Think whatever you want, but it seems to me that would be taking things just a wee a bit over the line.

FWLIW, I pray the Latin along with the celebrant, and usually we’re at the same place at the same time (or if not the same same place, then I’m ahead of him). OK, it’s usually the same celebrant, but not always, and even when the celebrant is different, we’re not too far apart. In any case, while it may exist elsewhere, I haven’t experienced “fudging” or skipping.
Sure, but the only people who say the Latin Mass these days are highly traditional priests who are likely to be pretty much fanatical about the rubrics. Let’s remember that most of the same priests who were bringing in guitars and throwing out high altars in 1972 were saying the Mass in Latin in 1962.

To all these claims that the TLM can’t be abused and surely never was, there’s a certain fairy-tale quality of, “I don’t see how there could be so much war and disease in the Middle Ages. I’ve been to a Renaissance Fair, and everyone seemed so polite and healthy.”
 
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