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EdFoust
Guest
“As long as they do not criticize the Novus Ordo Missae or Vatican II”
That leaves out a great number of traditionalists and addresses none of the doctrinal problems that occurred with Vatican II.
That leaves out a great number of traditionalists and addresses none of the doctrinal problems that occurred with Vatican II.
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James0235
Guest
The funny thing is all of the people here on CAF who would refuse to speak to the Cardinal if he used such an insulting term as “Novus Ordo”. I mean, it’s not as if it were used for the past few decades or anything.
James
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EdFoust
Guest
James,
The funny thing is all of the people here on CAF who would refuse to speak to the Cardinal if he used such an insulting term as “Novus Ordo”. I mean, it’s not as if it were used for the past few decades or anything.
James
Could you please explain your comments…I don’t understand what you are saying here. What is wrong with “The New Order of Mass”?
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ProVobis
Guest
Because after 40 years it is the Ordinary Form of Mass; it’s not new anymore.
Besides, if it’s a new rite, then it violates the Council of Trent. See how nicely the terminology of the OF worked out?
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pnewton
Guest
It is good to hear the Cardinal remind those with rose-colored glasses that even sixty years ago the same sort of “banalizing” abuses occured by some priest. I could listen to him all day long.
I think there is a catch-22 on implementing the Pope’s desire. Arinze points to the frustration on the part of people who are sick of seeing innovation and are drawn to the older form. The thing is, the very priest who are most abusive will be the least likely to reach out those whom they alienate. I do not know the answer.
I think there is a catch-22 on implementing the Pope’s desire. Arinze points to the frustration on the part of people who are sick of seeing innovation and are drawn to the older form. The thing is, the very priest who are most abusive will be the least likely to reach out those whom they alienate. I do not know the answer.
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brotherhrolf
Guest
I was very fortunate to have grown up in parishes where there were no abuses way back when. I never experienced the fifteen minute “speed” Low Mass yet I understand that such abuses existed.
But the good cardinal’s point about “creativity”? Have I seen that or what over the last 40 years? Didn’t take long. I have my 40th high school reunion come May. I just loved singing Simon and Garfunkle at our graduation Mass 40 years ago.
My current bishop (who merely “acknowledged” the MP) was a young priest back then and was the chaplain for my high school. I saw my parents and their generation increasingly marginalized in my parish back in the 70s as I was marginalized until I found my current parish in 1983. I drive 25 miles one way but at least I don’t see the abuses that go on in my local geographic parish five miles away.
I could go to our indult parish which is strictly “Low Mass”. Fortunately I have memories of the Missa Cantata and you should hear my congregation belt out the Kyrie, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei during Lent. My kids learned it such that my oldest (27) took it upon himself to learn how to chant the Pater Noster.
I remain with my reverent OF parish. I’ve got the chant. I’ve got the motets in Latin. It would be nice to have a Missa Cantata or a Solemn High Mass once in awhile.
I’m not dead yet! I’m feeling better! I’m 57 and I make no apologies for the fact that I was comfortable with that which I grew up with. I am also comfortable with my reverent OF parish.
But the good cardinal’s point about “creativity”? Have I seen that or what over the last 40 years? Didn’t take long. I have my 40th high school reunion come May. I just loved singing Simon and Garfunkle at our graduation Mass 40 years ago.
My current bishop (who merely “acknowledged” the MP) was a young priest back then and was the chaplain for my high school. I saw my parents and their generation increasingly marginalized in my parish back in the 70s as I was marginalized until I found my current parish in 1983. I drive 25 miles one way but at least I don’t see the abuses that go on in my local geographic parish five miles away.
I could go to our indult parish which is strictly “Low Mass”. Fortunately I have memories of the Missa Cantata and you should hear my congregation belt out the Kyrie, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei during Lent. My kids learned it such that my oldest (27) took it upon himself to learn how to chant the Pater Noster.
I remain with my reverent OF parish. I’ve got the chant. I’ve got the motets in Latin. It would be nice to have a Missa Cantata or a Solemn High Mass once in awhile.
I’m not dead yet! I’m feeling better! I’m 57 and I make no apologies for the fact that I was comfortable with that which I grew up with. I am also comfortable with my reverent OF parish.
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EdFoust
Guest
I think you still might call it new compared to the Mass of John XXIII, Pius XII, Pius X, Pius V?Because after 40 years it is the Ordinary Form of Mass; it’s not new anymore.
Besides, if it’s a new rite, then it violates the Council of Trent. See how nicely the terminology of the OF worked out?
It was called the New Order of Mass…that’s a violation of the Council of Trent???
EF
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James0235
Guest
Ed,
There are a few people on the forums here that have stated that they will not talk to a person who uses the term “Novus Ordo”. Apparently some people are under the misguided assumption that the term is incorrect. And somehow some seem to think that the term can only be used pejoratively.
But, it is a New Order of Mass - a “Novus Ordo Missae”. Sure, it has been 40 years. But, 40 years is not really a long time where the Catholic Church is concerned. And it has been known as the Novus Ordo for those 40 years.
If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and sounds like a duck then chances are it is a duck. Likewise if it looks like a New Order (Novus Ordo ) of Mass, and sounds like a New Order of Mass, and it actually is a New Order of Mass, then chances are…
James
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EdFoust
Guest
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pnewton
Guest
Context is everything. Control language and you control thought. I think the objection is that those who do not use the term are not blind or ignorant to such tactics, just like we understand the subliminal us of the abbreviation NO. Therefore we periodically jump in to remind people not to be taken by Orwellian techniques that bypass logical argument.
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PJM
Guest
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PJM
Guest
My friend, your wrong, but I do appreciate your trying to speak for me
The funny thing is all of the people here on CAF who would refuse to speak to the Cardinal if he used such an insulting term as “Novus Ordo”. I mean, it’s not as if it were used for the past few decades or anything.
James
God bless you,
PJM m.c.
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bkovacs
Guest
The Cardinal also did not mention everything else that went with the liturgical experience before the Second Vatican Council. The calendar was different, the rubrics, the whole theology of the Mass. All completely different than today.
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wisdomseeker
Guest
does anyone here see confusion in the Mass? i do. the new music mixed with the sacrifice of the Mass it really feels weird and unenteresting. people become restless during mass. it just do not feel right, even the choir looks bored with these new musics in the Church, it feels very strange.
Peace
Peace
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