Cardinal? Bishop? Archbishop?

[benedictgal]

In practice, the Holy Father usually waits until the potential Cardinal (if he is not, or does not want to become a bishop) has reached his 80th birthday (and is thereby ineligible to vote in Conclave) before naming him a Cardinal. The last time we saw non-bishop voting Cardinals was roughly World War I because many of the old royal houses of Europe had arrangements with the Holy See which allowed them to “appoint” an elector to the Chair of Peter. In theory though, the pope may still appoint anyone a Cardinal.

Evidently, Avery Cadinal Dulles was offered the chance to become a bishop, but he declined it. I am not sure, but, I believe that Fr. Hans Ur Van Balthasaar was up for cardinal, but, he died before anything could happen.

I wish that this would have happened to Fr. Richard John Neuhaus. Even though he was below the age of 80, it would have been great to see him either named a bishop or created a cardinal. It would have been a fitting honor for a good and holy priest who was a strong voice of reason and orthdoxy for the Church in America. May Fr. Neuhaus rest in peace.

 

[Joe_5859]

Evidently, Avery Cadinal Dulles was offered the chance to become a bishop, but he declined it. I am not sure, but, I believe that Fr. Hans Ur Van Balthasaar was up for cardinal, but, he died before anything could happen.

I wish that this would have happened to Fr. Richard John Neuhaus. Even though he was below the age of 80, it would have been great to see him either named a bishop or created a cardinal. It would have been a fitting honor for a good and holy priest who was a strong voice of reason and orthdoxy for the Church in America. May Fr. Neuhaus rest in peace.

Fr. Neuhaus passed away?!? I just checked First Things and saw that that happened today. :bighanky: Rest in peace.

 

[Frosty]

Interrestingly, the pope never appoints “Monsignors” he appoints “Chaplains to His Holiness” or similar titles. The word itself “Monsignor” is an honorific–a form of address, but it is not an official title as such; just as a bishop doesn’t ordain “Fathers” he ordains priests, but we call them “Father”.

I don’t quite understand why “Monsignor” is not an official title. I do realize that it is an honorific, but still? The reason I say this is because back in 1966, the pastor of our parish became a Domestic Prelate [thereby afterwards being addressed as Monsignor]. There was an actual investure ceremony at the Cathedral of the Archdiocese presided over by the Archbishop. It was a solemn affair too. I remember it well. Three buses were hired to transport the faithful who didn’t wish to drive themselves, the fifty miles to the Cathedral. The curates made sure that the buses were packed and there was a strong showing of support from our parish… We considered it a great honour because there was only one other priest in the Archdiocese called “Monsignor” and he was the rector of the Cathedral. I guess we felt that it gave us some “bragging rights”! I still have the prayer card from that day tucked inside my old St. Joseph’s Daily Missal.

 

[FrDavid96]

I don’t quite understand why “Monsignor” is not an official title. I do realize that it is an honorific, but still? The reason I say this is because back in 1966, the pastor of our parish became a Domestic Prelate [thereby afterwards being addressed as Monsignor]. There was an actual investure ceremony at the Cathedral of the Archdiocese presided over by the Archbishop. It was a solemn affair too. I remember it well. Three buses were hired to transport the faithful who didn’t wish to drive themselves, the fifty miles to the Cathedral. The curates made sure that the buses were packed and there was a strong showing of support from our parish… We considered it a great honour because there was only one other priest in the Archdiocese called “Monsignor” and he was the rector of the Cathedral. I guess we felt that it gave us some “bragging rights”! I still have the prayer card from that day tucked inside my old St. Joseph’s Daily Missal.

Of course the office to which your Monsignor was appointed was an “official” one and please don’t take that post to in any belittle the honor afforded to him. I mean simply that the actual WORD “Monsignor” isn’t an official title. The honor bestowed upon that priest was probably “Chaplain to His Holiness” or “Prelate to His Holiness” but of course, we don’t walk up to him and say “Good morning, Chaplain to His Holiness” we say “Good morning Monsignor” Sorry if I phrased my earlier post in a way which caused misunderstanding.

 

[Formosus]

The hierarchy is thus
Pope
Eastern Patriarchs ( primacy of honor is given based on original 4 and after that based on the age of the see)
Cardinals
Major Archbishops (eastern title, well kind of at least)
Western Patriarchs
Primates of a country ( I think)
Archbishop Metropolitan*
Archbishop
Bishop

below that of Bishop I have little clue how to sort of out archpriest, archdeacon, abbot, abbesses, superior generals, archmandrites etc.

• in the east, there is no difference between Archbishop and Metropolitan, they are the same office. The west created a new office of Archbishop (separate from metropolitan) during the reign of Charlemagne.

 

[Frosty]

Of course the office to which your Monsignor was appointed was an “official” one and please don’t take that post to in any belittle the honor afforded to him. I mean simply that the actual WORD “Monsignor” isn’t an official title. The honor bestowed upon that priest was probably “Chaplain to His Holiness” or “Prelate to His Holiness” but of course, we don’t walk up to him and say “Good morning, Chaplain to His Holiness” we say “Good morning Monsignor” Sorry if I phrased my earlier post in a way which caused misunderstanding.

Thanks, Father. I didn’t take your original post to mean any sort of belittlement. I only wanted to point out that there was an actual ceremony involved; that the right to use the title wasn’t bestowed simply upon the reception of a letter or a phone call !

 

[PJM]

I can’t get it straight:
1.)In the heirarchy of the Church, highest to lowest, does it go Cardinal, Archbishop,then Bishop?
2.)If so, does one have to be a Bishop to then become a Archbishop, and Archbishop to be a Cardinal, etc.
3.) And why so many different levels?
4.) And who appoints them? Is it by vote?

Thank you, thank you, thank you! (I’m ashamed to say I was a Catholic Theology major in college but apparently failed to absorb several basic facts about our faith! )

With soooo many titles who can understand?

**Pope - His Holiness
Bishop-Cardinal - His Emmenance
Cardinal "
Archbishop - His Excellency
Bishop "
Axulliary-Bishop "
Heads of Congregations - Most reverend
Mothers in Charge of Congregations “Mother”
Monsignor (an honary title) Very reverend
Priest- Reverend
Nun’s -Sister
Vowed religious - Brother or Sister
laity hay-you **

Now let’s see how Many I got correctly?

God’s special blessings to all of you
AND ALL of Them!

PJM m.c.

BVM please lead us to your Son Jesus!

 

[benedictgal]

Fr. Neuhaus passed away?!? I just checked First Things and saw that that happened today. :bighanky: Rest in peace.

Yes. I had a Mass said for him today at our local hospital’s chapel. I think that he would have made a splendid Cardinal.

From what I understand, the funeral will be on Tuesday. I am hoping that EWTN will broadcast it.

 

[Spirithound]

With soooo many titles who can understand?

**Pope - His Holiness
Bishop-Cardinal - His Emmenance
Cardinal "
Archbishop - His Excellency
Bishop "
Axulliary-Bishop "
Heads of Congregations - Most reverend
Mothers in Charge of Congregations “Mother”
Monsignor (an honary title) Very reverend
Priest- Reverend
Nun’s -Sister
Vowed religious - Brother or Sister
laity hay-you **

Now let’s see how Many I got correctly?

God’s special blessings to all of you
AND ALL of Them!

PJM m.c.

BVM please lead us to your Son Jesus!

An Archbishop is actually properly addressed as “Your Grace”. Other Bishops are “Your Excellency”. Also, Deacons are “Reverend Mr. Lastname”

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

An Archbishop is actually properly addressed as “Your Grace”. Other Bishops are “Your Excellency”. Also, Deacons are “Reverend Mr. Lastname”

The use of “Your Grace” is only a British (/Commonwealth) convention and not followed by Americans. In certain countries, bishops and archbishops are referred to as monsignors, too. So it all depends upon where you are. Monsignor, after all, simply means “my lord,” and is thus applicable to a variety of individuals.

 

[benedictgal]

An Archbishop is actually properly addressed as “Your Grace”. Other Bishops are “Your Excellency”. Also, Deacons are “Reverend Mr. Lastname”

The late Peter Jennings visited Laerdo back in 2001 when we had just been a diocese fo several months. It fell to me to guide through the Cathedral because his camera crew was going to take interior shots during Mass. It just so happened that the bishop was there to celebrate Mass for the Catholic Daughters and the K of C. When Jennings met the bishop, he addressed him as “your grace”. I thought it was rather strange, but, considering that Jennings was Anglican (and had covered several papal events in Rome, I thought might have cnofused the two).

Jennings knew what was going on during the Mass. We spoke a bit as we walked to the choir loft. He was a gentleman and he used some of what I told him in his story.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

A bishop is actually always the head of a diocese. In the cases of auxiliary bishops, however, they’re officially given dioceses which no longer exist. Interestingly enough, I’ve never heard of any of the auxiliary bishops of Rome

Well, it does little good to be head of a body without members; that’s why I stuck to the terminologies of ordinaries and territories. Auxiliary bishops are not diocesan ordinaries, and although they possess a defunct see those sees have no territory. You probably have, on the other hand, heard of at least one auxiliary bishop of Rome in the person of the pope’s vicar for the diocese (Cdl. Ruini was also president of the Italian bishops’ conference). The current auxiliaries of Rome are:

Agostino Vallini, Cardinal, Vicar General
Armando Brambilla, Auxiliary Bishop
Enzo Dieci, Auxiliary Bishop
Ernesto Mandara, Auxiliary Bishop
Luigi Moretti, Auxiliary Bishop
Paolo Schiavon, Auxiliary Bishop
Benedetto Tuzia, Auxiliary Bishop

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

Religious houses do indeed complicate the picture even more. Abbots do not possess the fulness of orders enjoyed by a bishop, but may under certain circumstances say Mass with roughly the same ceremonial as a bishop, vote in councils, etc. At one point in history there were even territories directly under the abbot of influential houses as their ordinary (they were not part of any dioceses territory, but belonged to the abbey). The specifics of religious’ authority and precedence is, however, beyond my ken.

 

[Formosus]

Your Grace is used for Byzantine Bishops. Eminence is used for Byzantine metropolitans. Someone else mentioned england, there they use Your Lordship when addressing a regular Bishop of the Latin church.

 

[jofa]

Wow - thanks everyone. It’s more confusing than I thought. Don’t know if my limited intellectual ability can sort it out. I got the basic understanding of Pope, Bishop, priest, though. Still a bit lost regarding the role/level of Cardinal. So much information, so little space in head!

 

[PacoG]

When Jennings met the bishop, he addressed him as “your grace”. I thought it was rather strange, but, considering that Jennings was Anglican (and had covered several papal events in Rome, I thought might have cnofused the two).

From Wikipedia:

The style “His Grace” and “Your Grace” is used in England and other English-speaking countries to address Roman Catholic archbishops, save the United States and Canada where the official (but very rarely used) styles are “His Excellency” and “Your Excellency”. In the Eastern Orthodox Church it is used for bishops and abbots. The style is also used for an archbishop and some bishops in the Anglican tradition. In the United Methodist Church, Bishops are addressed Your Grace (spoken style), and His/Her Grace (reference style).

 

[PacoG]

Your Grace is used for Byzantine Bishops. Eminence is used for Byzantine metropolitans. Someone else mentioned england, there they use Your Lordship when addressing a regular Bishop of the Latin church.

And Patriarchs are referred to as Your/His Beatitude.

 

[Dicerning]

I wish that this would have happened to Fr. Richard John Neuhaus. Even though he was below the age of 80, it would have been great to see him either named a bishop or created a cardinal. It would have been a fitting honor for a good and holy priest who was a strong voice of reason and orthdoxy for the Church in America. May Fr. Neuhaus rest in peace.

Well, Have you ever felt like you were on top of the news and the goings on and then you find out that there was something big that has slipped by your attention and when that something big happens it just absolutely FLOORS you. That is how I feel right now. I am (was?) a big fan of Fr. N. I had NO IDEA he was sick and here I am reading on CAF that one of my favorite priests has DIED.

I am feeling sorta sick to my stomach. We lost a great one.

 

[Aramis]

An Archbishop is actually properly addressed as “Your Grace”. Other Bishops are “Your Excellency”. Also, Deacons are “Reverend Mr. Lastname”

Except for Eastern Church use.

Indirect mode
His Grace is the mode for all non-primate bishops.
His Beattitude is used for some primates, including all major archbishops and patriarchs.

Direct mode
Byzantine use for deacons is “Father Deacon”
Byzantine use for priests is “Reverend Father”
Byzantine use for bishops is “Father Bishop”
Any cleric in major orders can be “Father”

The Eastern churches DO make a distinction between Archbishop and Metropolitan.
A metropolitan has suffragans.
Most metropolitans are also archbishops.

Cardinals-Patriarch hold precedence above all other cardinals except the officers of the College.

And Cardinal Lubomyr did excercise his vote at the last conclave. It is strongly rumored that he was a seriously considered candidate for Pope himself.

The Eastern Rite Cardinals are voting cardinals when young enough; some are not so young. At present, only six. Really, probably should be more…

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

Cardinals-Patriarch hold precedence above all other cardinals except the officers of the College.

What of patriarchs who are not cardinals?