Cardinal Burke and Bishop Schneider ask for prayer and fasting

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It’s an interesting thought experiment but it’s worth contextualizing even further with Jesus’ example. He too could’ve kept many more disciples if he had toned down some on his ‘hard teachings’. There are many things that would make us less vulnerable to attacks: doesn’t mean we should do them. By the way, I’m all for married priests, just because we see fewer and fewer vocations each decade. I’m just pushing back on some of the reasons I don’t think are great for changing venerable traditions. We adopted celibacy in the latin rite in response to certain things and I think we can increase married clergy (deacons and priests) for the same reasons: the present needs of the church.
 
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Actually, I agree with everything you just said.

I certainly see where you are coming from. As Catholics we should not be afraid of standing up for who we are because we’ll be attacked. It’s just that I think it is worth remembering the history of mandatory celibacy for what it actually was.

Realistically, my personal opinion of the history of mandatory celibacy is that’s its benefits and value are mixed and uncertain. It doesn’t make sense to me to use the history of mandatory celibacy as an argument for or against relaxing celibacy requirements today.
 
What do you mean “mandatory celibacy”? Just FYI, priests have never married in the church, at any point, ever. I think your calling it ‘mandatory celibacy’ reveals you may have a serious misunderstanding about priestly celibacy. The question is not whether priests should be mandated to be celibate, it’s whether the Latin Rite should ordain single men only or married men too. No priest is ever allowed to marry, not even among the Orthodox. When they are widowed, they remain celibate. It comes with Holy Orders.
 
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Yes, I know. Priests don’t marry, but occasionally married men can become priests. I get that. That distinction has been discussed several times here on CAF.

How is a better put? Should I say “The celibacy requirement in most cases in the Latin Rite”? That sounds awkward.

Kind of relevant to the OP’s questions in a way as well as Cardinal Burke and Bishop Schneider concerns. They are trying to bring up theological concerns about married priests, and there are married priests. Here we’re trying to correctly describe the celibacy requirement. Do we say “the celibacy requirement that applies most of the time”? I mean it is kind of frustrating just to describe the celibacy requirement because there are married priests.
 
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Oh, my apologies. I assumed from the wording that you were under the common error lots of people are under regarding celibacy: they think its about not letting our priests get wives. I don’t know how best to call it, perhabs celibacy shouldn’t be there, since it’s not the actual special requirement. The requirement is single-only (at ordination). Hmm…Let me think.
 
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Rubee said:
the present needs of the church.
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Do you feel married men would be able to meet those needs? Because presumably these married men are following Chirch teaching, including in NFP, which means (let’s be honest) many times they will have larger than average families. I think it would take several married priests who were dads to 5, 6, 7+ kids to do the around-the-clock work of one celebrate priest.
 
That’s an excellent point, @Jen7! There’s also the issue of financially sustaining these priests’ families. Also, it wouldn’t make sense to keep transferring such families from parish to parish.

I think we could increase them to serve as helpers, like the deacons already do: We just make more of them priests so they can serve the church in more ways than deacons do (like hearing confession and saying mass).
 
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Jen7 said:
Do you feel married men would be able to meet those needs?
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A few things to answer your question
  1. If it were up to me I wouldn’t get rid of the celibacy requirement and allow all married men to be ordained priests. I would just allow older married men to be married priests when necessary. By no means am I saying abolish our present system. Instead I would say build on it.
  2. The model of married priests won’t be a silver bullet. Nobody reasonably expects this. I believe it will help though.
  3. Realistically, there are a lot of Catholic priests who don’t primarily serve parishes. Instead there primary vocation is their orders. Religious priests make up about 1/3 of the priests in the US. For example you could have a dozen Jesuits serving two or so Parishes. Only a couple of them would be full time while the rest would be teachers or researches. Other orders like the Dominicans could be serving in Africa, and they may come back to the states to give occasionally homilies and raise money. These orders are already using the model you describe where many priests are necessary to serve the needs of a single Parish. This model works, and these orders are not throwing their entire costs on the Parish. For example the Jesuit teachers and professors are taking their entire salaries and giving it to their orders.
http://www.usccb.org/about/public-affairs/backgrounders/clergy-religious.cfm
 
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Lets take a look at what Bishop Burke did last summer:
http://www.bishop-accountability.or..._ImmaculateDeception_Raymond_Bornbach_etc.htm

Also Francis recently kicked him off of his position as prefect of the Apostolic Signature:

www.ncronline.org

Pope removes Cardinal Burke from Vatican post

Pope Francis removed U.S. Cardinal Raymond Burke as head of the Vatican's highest court and named him to a largely ceremonial post.
www.ncronline.org www.ncronline.org

This is weird too:


What if he’s the one who needs the prayers and fasting? 😱
 
jack63 said:
If it were up to me I wouldn’t get rid of the celibacy requirement and allow all priests to marry.
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That’s literally not under discussion. Sorry, mate, I don’t get why you keep insinuating this if it doesn’t represent your view of celibacy. No ordained member of the clergy is going to be getting wifeys. Unless . . . I’m still the naive one who assumes these prelates are not srsly trying to undo settled matters (again)??? Is this what’s being discussed? To let them get wives post-ordination? If so, why is it people who think they can no longer live this way feel it’s better to make a mess of the church than to leave ministry per the existing channels and get married?
 
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Jen7 said:
Do you feel married men would be able to meet those needs?
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Yes, I think it possible. The greatest need here, and why this is only being considered in these remote areas, is making the Eucharist available for the people. There is no reason married men cannot meet this need, along with others. Remember, where this is being proposed the population is sparse, making less demands on a married priest than a large urban parish would.

But whether this is practical or not is the very reason the question is under discussion.
 
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But is it a current requirement for married priests in the Latin Rite? I’ve never heard that it was for married priests today.
 
Not to go into all of the details, but it would be kind of a moot point for an older married man who likely would not be giving mass every day. That is really what is being proposed in the Amazon…ordaining older married men to become priests, and not young men starting their families.
 
pnewton said:
Remember, where this is being proposed the population is sparse, making less demands on a married priest than a large urban parish would.
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I dunno. I used to live in a very rural area where the population was sparse. The priest was “on call” for a large area of Catholics and traveled long distances. I suppose if a LOT of married men were ordained… but I still don’t see why they couldn’t be deacons. The deacon in our rural area did Communion services when our priest traveled. The Eucharist wasn’t lacking. Confession maybe… but no one is suggesting a need for more Confessions at the Amazon synod.
 
Jen7 said:
I suppose if a LOT of married men were ordained… but I still don’t see why they couldn’t be deacons.
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I am under the impression most of it boils down to saying Mass, maybe with a bit of a need for confession. Maybe we will know something definitive after the summit.
 
Glennon_P said:
But is it a current requirement for married priests in the Latin Rite? I’ve never heard that it was for married priests today.
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For married men who become priests, the celibacy/continence requirement is dispensed.

Dan
 
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