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I agree that the decline of catechesis was a huge factor. In the late 1960s Religious Education became almost a church within the Church. They developed their own chain of command within the diocese, their own standards for training and “certification” of catechists. They essentially controlled the publishing of religion textbooks, which all got a rubber stamp imprimatur by a few bishops. The imprimatur only means that a book does not teach false doctrine, but it was misused to mean endorsement by the Church.
Most bishops and pastors ignored this problem for a few decades. In recent years they finally began to coordinate for better religion texts. The problem now is that colleges and now high schools ostensibly Catholic have been badly secularized. But practically none of them ever get dropped by their diocese from listing as “Catholic”. There is almost nothing you can do that will get the diocese to remove the Catholic label. This is especially a problem for high schools, where parents pay heavy tuition and fully expect there will be solid Catholic education, which in many schools is now mostly inaccurate. Alumni keep giving money, under the impression the school is as Catholic as it was when they attended.
I realize in most cases the bishop no longer supervises the administration of the school or college. He really has only limited influence on these institutions. But the diocese and the bishop have a responsibility to correct a common misunderstanding. I am not saying the bishop should denounce an institution, but the diocesan newspaper and directory should explain, once a year, “the following schools are no longer institutionally guided by the Catholic Faith, though some individual teachers and staff are”.
Most bishops and pastors ignored this problem for a few decades. In recent years they finally began to coordinate for better religion texts. The problem now is that colleges and now high schools ostensibly Catholic have been badly secularized. But practically none of them ever get dropped by their diocese from listing as “Catholic”. There is almost nothing you can do that will get the diocese to remove the Catholic label. This is especially a problem for high schools, where parents pay heavy tuition and fully expect there will be solid Catholic education, which in many schools is now mostly inaccurate. Alumni keep giving money, under the impression the school is as Catholic as it was when they attended.
I realize in most cases the bishop no longer supervises the administration of the school or college. He really has only limited influence on these institutions. But the diocese and the bishop have a responsibility to correct a common misunderstanding. I am not saying the bishop should denounce an institution, but the diocesan newspaper and directory should explain, once a year, “the following schools are no longer institutionally guided by the Catholic Faith, though some individual teachers and staff are”.
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adamhovey1988
Guest
I was lucky to be Catechised by a priest. Anyway, I sat on on the RCIA classes when I was a sponsor, and the teacher out and out said he didn’t believe in Purgatory. Umm, that’s NOT optional for Catholics.
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GratefulFred
Guest
Faith is a Gift from God. Some of us receive this great Gift without hardly asking for it. Others, suspecting it could be great value ,can pray for it and God will give the Gift. For all of us, Faith is a Gift that must be nurtured so that it grows into full bloom.
The term “Catechesis” is somewhat a barrier. Few can even spell it correctly and few know its meaning - oral instruction. In our time of electronic wonder, limiting the means of instruction to just oral is not that helpful.
A half a century ago - the 60s and earlier - we had many priests, sisters and brothers and a much small population, and less distractions. My childhood parish had Catechism class on Wednesdays after school and after the kids’ 8 am Sunday Mass. We each had the Baltimore Catechism. The Sisters taught us well. I was able to attend Catholic school grade 7-12. The Sisters and Brothers taught well and we had an hour of Religion every day with a textbook. In those days I could caddy at the Country Club and earn my high school tuition. I earned $6 to carry two bags 18 holes and easily made my $150 annual tuition. Today it costs about $10,000 a year mainly because most teachers are civilians with families to support - Sisters and Brothers could live on much less compensation and thus lower tuition.
Now we have a much larger population, many distractions ,and way fewer priests, sisters and brothers. Many of us live further away from Church and just getting there is more of a challenge. We live in a large parish. My grandchildren are in Life Teen. They tell me about 15 to 20 teens attend, many not regularly. They do not have a book and mostly it is oral and games and socialization. No Sisters or Brothers, and while we have one paid position, the turn over is about every two years.
We are told it is the parents’ responsibility - implying a lessor role for the Church. But Christ commanded the Apostles to go and teach. He was not addressing parents needing to be taught. And if parents have not been well taught how can they teach their children? And how does anyone know if private family teaching is consistent? The USCCB - the Conference of American Bishops - have the knowledge and resources to organize a much stronger education program. Pastors can ensure each family is made aware of their responsibility to ensure their children are in an approved and supervised program.
The term “Catechesis” is somewhat a barrier. Few can even spell it correctly and few know its meaning - oral instruction. In our time of electronic wonder, limiting the means of instruction to just oral is not that helpful.
A half a century ago - the 60s and earlier - we had many priests, sisters and brothers and a much small population, and less distractions. My childhood parish had Catechism class on Wednesdays after school and after the kids’ 8 am Sunday Mass. We each had the Baltimore Catechism. The Sisters taught us well. I was able to attend Catholic school grade 7-12. The Sisters and Brothers taught well and we had an hour of Religion every day with a textbook. In those days I could caddy at the Country Club and earn my high school tuition. I earned $6 to carry two bags 18 holes and easily made my $150 annual tuition. Today it costs about $10,000 a year mainly because most teachers are civilians with families to support - Sisters and Brothers could live on much less compensation and thus lower tuition.
Now we have a much larger population, many distractions ,and way fewer priests, sisters and brothers. Many of us live further away from Church and just getting there is more of a challenge. We live in a large parish. My grandchildren are in Life Teen. They tell me about 15 to 20 teens attend, many not regularly. They do not have a book and mostly it is oral and games and socialization. No Sisters or Brothers, and while we have one paid position, the turn over is about every two years.
We are told it is the parents’ responsibility - implying a lessor role for the Church. But Christ commanded the Apostles to go and teach. He was not addressing parents needing to be taught. And if parents have not been well taught how can they teach their children? And how does anyone know if private family teaching is consistent? The USCCB - the Conference of American Bishops - have the knowledge and resources to organize a much stronger education program. Pastors can ensure each family is made aware of their responsibility to ensure their children are in an approved and supervised program.
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pianistclare
Guest
If they are not having a class in LifeTeen they are not using the curriculum correctly.
LifeTeen is WAY more than games and refreshments, in fact we almost never have refreshments and socializing. Only for about 5 minutes of an ice breaker game when they get there.
Class is 2 hours, and it very focused on Scripture and the Mass. Sometimes we have Adoration for the last hour. We have a group of certified catechists and an army of parent volunteers. We have 85-90 teens showing up regularly and ours is a small group for our area. The parish 8 miles up the road has over 200 regularly.
Studies have shown that if you give a teen a textbook he won’t read it.
The last thing kids want to do is go to church on an extra day and sit at a desk and read.
LifeTeen works great if you do it right.
And for “THEY”…they are the USSCB who have authorized which books an Archdiocese or Diocese can use.
If someone doesn’t care for their choices, they can take it up with the pastor.
But give me a break.
NO ONE, but NO ONE wants to work with kids today.
I ask every August fro more volunteers and people are busy looking at their shoes. But they are the same people that come to me in sorrow when their kids either end up pregnant, come out of the closet or want to get married on the beach.
You cant wait to the last minute to talk to your kids about faith. But sadly, that’s the way it is in our parishes.
There are a few faithful families, yes, God love them. But the rest?
The cant be bothered.
I’m going to unsubscribe while my blood pressure is still normal.
T
TCEL
Guest
Amen! I don’t envy the task set before our Priests and Bishops nowadays, but there is some really great stuff going on behind the scenes, which I think will begin to flower before too long.
I just finished stating on a different thread how important it is to implement a sound Theology of the Body curriculum in Catholic High Schools. I graduated from conventional Catholic high school ten years ago, and while we did receive some good education (and even apologetics), TOB was missing. I cannot emphasize enough how important that is. I didn’t know about TOB, or the reasonableness of the Church’s teaching regarding sexuality, until the latter part of college and post-college! I went to the state university. By then, it’s usually too late. And this isn’t a slam against my parents at all. (They’re some of the most well-educated people I know.) Most adults don’t know what TOB is, or the history of philosophy, or the history of contraception. Very illuminating stuff. I even took the time to write a thank-you letter to one of my high school teachers, iterating gratitude for his faithfulness and how important it was for my faith-walk to learn about TOB.
I’m sympathetic to the delicate nature this territory must be for teachers, but I think it’s too important. We can’t assume kids are getting it at home.
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RPRPsych
Guest
I feel for you, really. This is the way it is here, too. And often, the few “enthusiastic” volunteers are also the most heterodox ones (“God our Father and Mother”, syncretism, unapproved apparitions…lions and tigers and bears, oh my!If they are not having a class in LifeTeen they are not using the curriculum correctly.
LifeTeen is WAY more than games and refreshments, in fact we almost never have refreshments and socializing. Only for about 5 minutes of an ice breaker game when they get there.
Class is 2 hours, and it very focused on Scripture and the Mass. Sometimes we have Adoration for the last hour. We have a group of certified catechists and an army of parent volunteers. We have 85-90 teens showing up regularly and ours is a small group for our area. The parish 8 miles up the road has over 200 regularly.
Studies have shown that if you give a teen a textbook he won’t read it.
The last thing kids want to do is go to church on an extra day and sit at a desk and read.
LifeTeen works great if you do it right.
And for “THEY”…they are the USSCB who have authorized which books an Archdiocese or Diocese can use.
If someone doesn’t care for their choices, they can take it up with the pastor.
But give me a break.
NO ONE, but NO ONE wants to work with kids today.
I ask every August fro more volunteers and people are busy looking at their shoes. But they are the same people that come to me in sorrow when their kids either end up pregnant, come out of the closet or want to get married on the beach.
You cant wait to the last minute to talk to your kids about faith. But sadly, that’s the way it is in our parishes.
There are a few faithful families, yes, God love them. But the rest?
The cant be bothered.
I’m going to unsubscribe while my blood pressure is still normal.
)
E
Expatreprocedit
Guest
Actually practicing the Faith is the key for the Church today, as it always has been.
J
jeannetherese
Guest
I think the point with catechesis is that it helps to know what you are practicing.
Catechesis was much stronger in my parents day than it is today.
But yes, practice is crucial as well.
May God bless all who visit this thread.
Amen.
O
OraLabora
Guest
What I got in the early 60s was oral rote learning using the French Canadian version of the Baltimore Catechism (well, it was nearly identical but in French).I think the point with catechesis is that it helps to know what you are practicing.
Catechesis was much stronger in my parents day than it is today.
But yes, practice is crucial as well.
May God bless all who visit this thread.
Amen.
Things however, were not really explained to us, so I never really understood the faith, or faith in general. I had a natural scientific curiosity, which perhaps explains why I eventually became a scientist, so simply saying it was so wasn’t very helpful to me. This was in a Catholic school. I started school in 1964 when Catholicism was still very much alive in Quebec. I drifted from the faith in my late teens and didn’t return until I was 39.
It was only when I started to study it at that point (thank you Internet!). did I really start to learn it, and understand its beauty and unassailable logic.
I highly doubt that the learning techniques of the BC will be very successful with today’s connected youth. We still need to teach the foundations and basics of the faith, but we also need to be able to captivate our youth to its beauty and transcendence. That was sorely lacking when I was a kid.
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commenter
Guest
Looking at the part I bolded…I would take the opposite view. The young people I know like things expressed concisely. “Just tell me the crucial stuff - if I want to know more, I will ask for more…”
The BC takes few words to communicate the gist of something, that recent religion texts take many words. The recent texts tend to wander far, in narratives about A, B, C, before they finally land on D, which might be the point of the chapter. There is nothing to tell what parts are more important than others, what parts are dogma, compared to examples, illustrations, analogies, or opinion. One religion text is usually incompatible with the text they use next year.
The BC was criticized because it was minimalist. All good outlines are minimalist, they need to be fleshed out by the teacher. But you can always see the larger picture, you always know where you are. It can be studied by young students, then studied at a deeper level by older students. It’s an outline. It tells you what you need to know, then encourages you to learn more. Come on, we are living in the text and post generation!
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commenter
Guest
Feel free to elaborate on the Orthodox approach to catechesis, and how it relates to practice.
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shockerfan
Guest
Far too many Catholics either do not know the tenants of their faith, or they reject them (but still call themselves Catholic), or they separate the “faith they believe” vs “the faith they practice” (like many Catholic politicians)
A lot of this, IMO, is due to the prevalence of moral relativism in our society, and the rejection of “objective truth”.
I also think a reasonable amount of ignorance is due to laziness. There are quite a bit of parents at my parish who drop their kids off at CCD classes, don’t attend mass, and expect someone else to instruct their child.
Catechesis is necessary at all levels (young kids, teens, and adults). God is to be worshipped in 3 different ways: with our hearts (prayer, mass, etc), with our hands (by feeding the poor, clothing the naked, etc), and with our heads (reading the Bible, the CCC, etc). We run into issues ignoring one or more of those ways to worship.
A lot of this, IMO, is due to the prevalence of moral relativism in our society, and the rejection of “objective truth”.
I also think a reasonable amount of ignorance is due to laziness. There are quite a bit of parents at my parish who drop their kids off at CCD classes, don’t attend mass, and expect someone else to instruct their child.
Catechesis is necessary at all levels (young kids, teens, and adults). God is to be worshipped in 3 different ways: with our hearts (prayer, mass, etc), with our hands (by feeding the poor, clothing the naked, etc), and with our heads (reading the Bible, the CCC, etc). We run into issues ignoring one or more of those ways to worship.
T
TCEL
Guest
Funny how that happens. It’s almost like we’re a body *and *a soul, not just one or the other.
Baptize the imagination. There’s a heck-load of ugliness out there. Honey as opposed to vinegar works for aesthetics, too. I think a lot of creative souls are outright repelled by how ugly and institutional some of the more modern aesthetic can be. Our Churches shouldn’t do that! Defies common sense.
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Expatreprocedit
Guest
First, I hope that no one took my comment as a dig at the Catholic Church. It was not meant that way. I would have made the same comment on an Orthodox forum; all churches, IMO, need to worry about orthopraxis as well as orthodoxy.
I’m not sure the Orthodox approach differs radically from the Catholic. While the Orthodox definitely have catechisms, there is no one official Orthodox catechism. Further, outside of the Nicene Creed and the decisions of the Eight (as the Orthodox reckon them) Ecumenical Councils, the Orthodox do not have a lot of proclaimed dogmas, much fewer than the West. The Divine Liturgy, the prayers and the sayings of the Fathers form other sources of catechesis, besides the above. There is a saying that the Eastern church “prays its theology”.
There is, I would say, a greater emphasis on orthopraxis perhaps. As a good example of an Orthodox catechism, I would suggest “The Faith We Hold” by Archbishop Paul of Finland. It is short and, as you will see, emphasizes practice more than dogmas, although those cannot be disregarded.
J
JakeWI
Guest
I am a catechist at my Parish, and have been for a couple years in the EDGE (Middle School) group. In my experience and in talking with the DRE, it seems as if the students in my group, usually the boys, end up responding better to things once shown. They are interested in hands on experiences, asking “what is that box behind the altar?”, very basic things they should probably know early on but never were taught or told… which we have as they have come up.
One thing I was very impressed with is when we took them into our Perpetual Adoration Chapel at our church and these usually very active, distracted middle school boys ended up kneeling silently, bowing to the Eucharist, and following everything I had told them. To me, this is so much more than the specifics in the bible. If they realize the power of the Eucharist and the true presence, what specific things in the church are, and why things are done certain ways, this is a large part of what seems to be missing for them. The WHY, but more than just telling why… but showing why.
One thing I was very impressed with is when we took them into our Perpetual Adoration Chapel at our church and these usually very active, distracted middle school boys ended up kneeling silently, bowing to the Eucharist, and following everything I had told them. To me, this is so much more than the specifics in the bible. If they realize the power of the Eucharist and the true presence, what specific things in the church are, and why things are done certain ways, this is a large part of what seems to be missing for them. The WHY, but more than just telling why… but showing why.
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