Cardinal Dolan: Islamic State is perversion of Islam, as IRA was perversion of Catholicism [CC]

[Aslan10]

The Cardinal appears to disagree with you. Why don’t you correct him since you apparently know more than he does.

Look at the name “Islamic State”
They have implemented a form of sharia law based on a religious text.
They have captured Christians and executed them for being of a different faith.
And even more simply, they do everything in the name of allah and Islam.

Whether it is a perverted form of their religion or not, it is first and foremost religiously motivated. Secondly, a response to foreign occupation and western democracy.

And just because someone has the title “Cardinal” in front their name does not make them anymore intelligent than a common man. There have been more than plenty idiotic clerics with “cardinal” and “pope” in front of there name.

Just to be clear, my last statement is not intended to be an ad hominem attack on Catholicism. There are plenty of idiotic “pastors” and protestant clergymen in history as well. Nor am I calling Cardinal Dolan and idiot, because I think he is a good man and a relatively good leader. But he has it wrong on this subject.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Look at the name “Islamic State”
They have implemented a form of sharia law based on a religious text.
They have captured Christians and executed them for being of a different faith.
And even more simply, they do everything in the name of allah and Islam.

Whether it is a perverted form of their religion or not, it is first and foremost religiously motivated. Secondly, a response to foreign occupation and western democracy.

And just because someone has the title “Cardinal” in front their name does not make them anymore intelligent than a common man. There have been more than plenty idiotic clerics with “cardinal” and “pope” in front of there name.

Just to be clear, my last statement is not intended to be an ad hominem attack on Catholicism. There are plenty of idiotic “pastors” and protestant clergymen in history as well. Nor am I calling Cardinal Dolan and idiot, because I think he is a good man and a relatively good leader. But he has it wrong on this subject.

No, you just think he is spineless.

“I think Cardinal Dolan spinelessly is giving in to the modern idea that all religions have performed evil in equity.”

 

[DaveBj]

Look at the name “Islamic State”
They have implemented a form of sharia law based on a religious text.
They have captured Christians and executed them for being of a different faith.
And even more simply, they do everything in the name of allah and Islam.

Whether it is a perverted form of their religion or not, it is first and foremost religiously motivated. Secondly, a response to foreign occupation and western democracy.

And just because someone has the title “Cardinal” in front their name does not make them anymore intelligent than a common man. There have been more than plenty idiotic clerics with “cardinal” and “pope” in front of there name.

Just to be clear, my last statement is not intended to be an ad hominem attack on Catholicism. There are plenty of idiotic “pastors” and protestant clergymen in history as well. Nor am I calling Cardinal Dolan and idiot, because I think he is a good man and a relatively good leader. But he has it wrong on this subject.

I was going to comment on this, but Aslan said pretty much what I was going to say (the first two paragraphs), and he said it better. So I’ll just say +1.

 

[pnewton]

I did read it, and he is trying to make a moral equivalency that does not exist. All you have to do is look at the names of the two groups to see the differences “ISlAMIC STATE” and “Irish REPUBLICAN Army.” I think Cardinal Dolan spinelessly is giving in to the modern idea that all religions have performed evil in equity.

No, he did not. Your speculation is just that, speculation. Please go elsewhere if you can not show more respect toward our clergy and show personal integrity by abiding by the rules you agree to when you sign on here.

 

[Aslan10]

No, you just think he is spineless.

“I think Cardinal Dolan spinelessly is giving in to the modern idea that all religions have performed evil in equity.”

His current action yes. Not his overall persona. Hope that clears it up. If you’d rather me say “soft” I will.

 

[pnewton]

There is simply no moral equivalency that will suffice when it comes to ISIS. Even the Nazi’s pale in comparison, as they tried hard to cover-up there atrocities.

Cardinal Dolan did not say there was a moral equivalency. He did not imply that there was.

 

[Aslan10]

No, he did not. Your speculation is just that, speculation. Please go elsewhere if you can not show more respect toward our clergy and show personal integrity by abiding by the rules you agree to when you sign on here.

Analogy : 1. a comparison between two things, typically on the basis of their structure and for the purpose of explanation or clarification.
2. a correspondence or partial similarity.
3. a thing that is comparable to something else in significant respects.

I am not trying to undermine or slander Cardinal Dolan’s character as human, but I sure am disagreeing with him, and disagreeing with a clergyman of the Catholic faith is not against any of the rules of this forum. Just as I said above, I am not calling Dolan’s overall persona “spineless,” but I am calling his statement that.

There is an idea in today’s world, that for a person of a different faith to criticize actions of another faith, that they must apply equivalent evils within their own history and apologize, to do so; this should not be the case. It’s going along with Obama’s statement at the prayer breakfast and trying to lump all faiths in the same category. While I do not think Dolan is directly trying to this, I do think he has indirectly done so in this statement.

If I offended you, I apologize. But I stand by what I said.

 

[JustaServant]

I think the Cardinal’s words should be heeded. It’s not easy preaching peace in the midst of war and violence. We need more clergy like him.

 

[Per_Crucem]

I think the Cardinal’s words should be heeded. It’s not easy preaching peace in the midst of war and violence. We need more clergy like him.

I didn’t see that Cardinal Dolan mentioned anything about a peaceful outcome vs. a violent one in his statement, merely that ISIS did not represent Islam.

And if he did, I would like to see the argument for an appeal for peace with a group that crucifies children.

 

[pnewton]

I am not trying to undermine or slander Cardinal Dolan’s character as human, but I sure am disagreeing with him, and disagreeing with a clergyman of the Catholic faith is not against any of the rules of this forum. Just as I said above,

So just to clarify, which statement do you disagree with? Do you think ISIS is not a perversion of Islam, or do you think the IRA was not a perversion of Catholicism?

 

[jimcav]

Cardinal Dolan did not say there was a moral equivalency. He did not imply that there was.

The West is beginning to act like the beaten wife who blames herself for the beatings…

There is simply no need for anyone to be apologetic or apply a moral equivalent, which this most certainly is, when the blame for this lies squarely on the shoulders of ISIS. The modern world has never seen anything close to the brutality we have seen by them, so let’s stop trying to find a Christian equivalent…

 

[Aslan10]

So just to clarify, which statement do you disagree with? Do you think ISIS is not a perversion of Islam, or do you think the IRA was not a perversion of Catholicism?

I’m not sure if ISIS is a perverted form of Islam or not. I haven’t formally come to a conclusion on whether Islam is an inherently violent religion. There are peaceful muslims who denounce their actions no doubt, and I applaud them. However, the prophet of Islam was a conqueror and his actions have followed suit throughout time, and to this day. The oppression of minorities in Islamic countries at the moment is more than well documented.

The IRA was a politically motivated group, seeking the independence of Ireland from the UK government that had long oppressed the Irish people and deliberately partitioned the North, despite the 75% overwhelming majority vote for an independent Ireland. The members of the IRA just so happened to have been Catholic. They weren’t conquering lands and forcing religious law upon people. So to even mention it as analogous to ISIS is irresponsible.

Could you see the IRA, if they had ever got into power, forcing all women to wear burqas and whipping those who don’t, hanging people in stadiums for drinking alcohol, throwing girls into prison to be raped, encouraging child marriage and honor killings and flying planes into buildings yelling–all in the name of Christ and His Pope? I certainly cannot. Not to mention, the original IRA did come into power, and it was the Irish Republic. It’s flag is green, white and orange to celebrate Catholics, Protestants, and the peace between them. This does not mean I condone the actions of blowing up buildings and other heinous crimes by the provisional IRA and Continuity IRA; just so I am not misunderstood.

Again, I am not trying to slander Cardinal Dolan or the important office he holds, but I do disagree with his statement. So, please do not misinterpret me. I’m sorry if I came across the wrong way.

 

[pnewton]

The West is beginning to act like the beaten wife who blames herself for the beatings…

There is simply no need for anyone to be apologetic or apply a moral equivalent, which this most certainly is, …

Cardinal Dolan did not say there was a moral equivalency. He did not imply that there was. He was not apologetic for ISIS.

 

[DaveBj]

So just to clarify, which statement do you disagree with? Do you think ISIS is not a perversion of Islam, or do you think the IRA was not a perversion of Catholicism?

The fact that the IRA was aligned with the Catholic citizens of Northern Ireland does not mean that it had much of anything to do with Catholicism. Actually it was more about being anti-British and, surprisingly, pro-Marxist.

 

[Adamski]

The Islamic State represents “a particularly perverted form of Islam,” Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York has said.“These are not pure, these are not real Muslims,” the cardinal said …

More…

I have a close friend whose father was a police officer during the IRA era in Ireland it was not as clear cut as Dolan is saying there was about 10 fractions claiming to be the “real IRA”. Some where pure communist or even fascists evening working with the nazis or ussr to over throw Britain but there where others groups that called them self the IRA that protected schools and churches from bombing and shooting and yes those good guy IRA carried ak-47

God bless Micheal Collins !!

 

[SonSearcher]

I did read it, and he is trying to make a moral equivalency that does not exist. All you have to do is look at the names of the two groups to see the differences “ISlAMIC STATE” and “Irish REPUBLICAN Army.” I think Cardinal Dolan spinelessly is giving in to the modern idea that all religions have performed evil in equity.

here here

 

[jimcav]

Cardinal Dolan did not say there was a moral equivalency. He did not imply that there was. He was not apologetic for ISIS.

Please tell me how this statement is not a moral equivalency when he uses the word “compare”?

Cardinal Dolan compared the relationship between the Islamic faith and the Islamic State with that between the Irish Republican Army and the Catholic Church. “They were baptized,” he said of the Irish militants. “They had a Catholic identity.” But the violence that they employed “was a perversion of everything the Church stood for.”

Definition for compare -

To say that something) is similar to something else

: to look at (two or more things) closely in order to see what is similar or different about them or in order to decide which one is better

: to be as good or as bad as something else : to be on the same level or in the same category as something else

I love the Cardinal, especially as a New Yorker, but in this instance I believe he was wrong just as I thought Obama was wrong when he brought up the Crusades which was widely seen as a moral equivalency , so I am consistent…

 

[pnewton]

Please tell me how this statement is not a moral equivalency when he said he uses the word “compare”?

The reporter used the word “compare”. What he said was,"“The analogy (to the IRA) is somewhat accurate,” said Dolan, an Irish-American who on March 17 will serve as grand marshal of the city’s St. Patrick’s Day parade. “These are not pure, these are not real Muslims”

He does draws a single point of comparison, not that they compare in every way, or even many ways. Just as the IRA, excuse me, some of the murderous factions of the IRA were not acting out of Catholic theological devotion, these are not acting out of Islamic devotion. Yes, what they do is motivated 100% out of religious fervor. Christianity is rife with examples of people, some of whom are quite devoted and have many beliefs in common, doing heinous acts that run counter to everything Christ stood for. Both the Branch Davidians and the People’s Temple came from Christian roots. Now while these types of groups have less in common with either ISIS or the IRA than they have in common, they do have a point of similarity and can serve as both a comparison and an analogy in one way. Yet this by no means implies any equivalency, moral or otherwise.

 

[jimcav]

The reporter used the word “compare”. What he said was,"“The analogy (to the IRA) is somewhat accurate,” said Dolan, an Irish-American who on March 17 will serve as grand marshal of the city’s St. Patrick’s Day parade. “These are not pure, these are not real Muslims”

He does draws a single point of comparison, not that they compare in every way, or even many ways. Just as the IRA, excuse me, some of the murderous factions of the IRA were not acting out of Catholic theological devotion, these are not acting out of Islamic devotion. Yes, what they do is motivated 100% out of religious fervor. Christianity is rife with examples of people, some of whom are quite devoted and have many beliefs in common, doing heinous acts that run counter to everything Christ stood for. Both the Branch Davidians and the People’s Temple came from Christian roots. Now while these types of groups have less in common with either ISIS or the IRA than they have in common, they do have a point of similarity and can serve as both a comparison and an analogy in one way. Yet this by no means implies any equivalency, moral or otherwise.

Comments like the Cardinals, the presidents and the defense of it by you, just keep clouding the issue - which is ISIS, nobody else!

We will agree to disagree on this, but make no mistake, if we don’t stop this “well, we did it to” attitude we will never defeat these cretins who are solely to blame for all this misery. We need to live in the now…

 

[oldcatholicguy]

here here

Well if names are all that matter than the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea must be a paradise of freedoms and justice.