Cardinal Law

[Mysty101]

Suz and the SNAP gang are sure that they know this man’s soul better than his Church

Excuse me ???

I don’t claim to know any soul. I just know that someone who was such a poor administrator that such abuse occurred on his watch (whether or not he was aware—being unaware would be another dereliction of his job description) should not be flaunted in such a public view. This is just plain common sense.

 

[Mysty101]

Lisa N:

Kristine (kmktexas) I appreciated your post very much and agree in all respects. FWIW I am a bit confused by the ‘appeal.’ Our diocese had an appeal but they listed very specific things it would be used for including Catholic education, support for retired religious, and a presence on college campuses among others. I didn’t get the impression any of the money would be funding settlements from the lawsuits. Maybe each diocese is different?
Lisa N

With all those books and reports you read, you don’t know? Maybe you need to ask your diocese from where the money for the settlements came. And maybe you might not know more that someone who has know and loved the Church for many years.

 

[Benedictus]

demolitionman65:

This is not your judgement to make. You have no window to look into another man’s soul.

This is not about looking into another man’s soul. We are not judging his conscience. This is about very public scandal.

Cardinal Law inflicted terrible damage upon the Church, and his role as Archpriest at Santa Maria Maggiore is bring shame upon the Church once again.

On the other hand, you are right that this is not our judgment to make. The deceased Holy Father made the decision to appoint him Archpriest of Santa Maria Maggiore.

 

[kmktexas]

Lisa N:

Kristine (kmktexas) I appreciated your post very much and agree in all respects. FWIW I am a bit confused by the ‘appeal.’ Our diocese had an appeal but they listed very specific things it would be used for including Catholic education, support for retired religious, and a presence on college campuses among others. I didn’t get the impression any of the money would be funding settlements from the lawsuits. Maybe each diocese is different?

Lisa N

I think each diocese IS different. We have the Diocisan Services Appeal which is very general. There are then seperate appeals throughout the year for things like the retired religious, catholic education, etc.

I did not mean to imply that the DSF money was being used for lawsuit settlements. Our diocese has not had many of those settlements (that have been publicized) and is not in the same tight financial situation as some other dioceses. I just meant that there seems to be a trend to give our money to the local parish and directly to charities rather than to the diocese and that trend is not largely related to the abuse crisis but rather a reaction to other diocisan problems.

 

[siamesecat]

Well as someone living in Massachusetts, people around here are absolutely incensed about Cardinal Law. Knowing about these perverts that destroyed so many peoples lives and preyed on small children, and yet allowing it to happen. I think that is one of the greatest sins of all. Maybe he didnt do it directly or break any laws, but the knowledge and failure to report about this tragedy is one of the most horrible things anyone can do to someone. People around here are furious and its not going to end any time soon. In my opinion, he should be defrocked. But if he isnt, he certainly should not be representing the church in a mass for the pope or be shown as such a public figure being accepted at the Vatican.

 

[tuopaolo]

It seems like a lot of you think that Cardinal Law was or is a worse sinner than you. Let’s say he was a worse sinner? Undoubtedly he would have gone to confession. So why continue to beat him over the head at his past sins?

Personally, I would not be surprised if Cardinal Law, unknown to the popular masses, is or will be a great saint. Perhaps he is demonstrating heroic virtue by patiently bearing all the insults and criticisms and accusations that a lot of you and lots of other people are leveling against him. While it would surprise me on a human level, in terms of my faith in God, it would not surprise me if he were one day canonized. Even if you think he is far from worthy today, he could be made worthy by the Holy Spirit tomorrow.

I wonder if he goes to heaven and the people who hate or dislike or despise him go to heaven also whether they will be happy that he is there. Will they be offended if Our Lord gives him an honored seat at the wedding banquet?

I don’t believe what the secular media reports about Cardinal Law. I doubt that everything they say is true or that we have the whole truth.

 

[Mysty101]

God bless and comfort you

You have said this far better than I could.

 

[Mysty101]

siamesecat:

Well as someone living in Massachusetts, people around here are absolutely incensed about Cardinal Law. Knowing about these perverts that destroyed so many peoples lives and preyed on small children, and yet allowing it to happen. I think that is one of the greatest sins of all. Maybe he didnt do it directly or break any laws, but the knowledge and failure to report about this tragedy is one of the most horrible things anyone can do to someone. People around here are furious and its not going to end any time soon. In my opinion, he should be defrocked. But if he isnt, he certainly should not be representing the church in a mass for the pope or be shown as such a public figure being accepted at the Vatican.

God bless and comfort you

You have said this far better than I could.

 

[Annunciata]

Mysty101:

…How is the Cardinal’s appeal going in your parish?

The Annual Catholic Appeal was very successful in the Archdoicese of Boston for 2004
$10.85 million…$500,000 more than previous years…
Check it out sunherald.com/mld/newssentinel/11042926.htm

 

[kmktexas]

should not be flaunted in such a public view

He isn’t being “flaunted”. He is less than two years away from the mandatory retirement age. Had the Pope not died, he would have served at the Basilica in quiet obscurity and then retired. Even a few months ago, the “experts” were giving the Pope five years or more of life so the odds were good that Cardinal Law would have retired before ever saying a high profile Mass again.

God evidently had other plans.

 

[Annunciata]

tuopaolo:

It seems like a lot of you think that Cardinal Law was or is a worse sinner than you. Let’s say he was a worse sinner? Undoubtedly he would have gone to confession. So why continue to beat him over the head at his past sins?

Personally, I would not be surprised if Cardinal Law, unknown to the popular masses, is or will be a great saint. Perhaps he is demonstrating heroic virtue by patiently bearing all the insults and criticisms and accusations that a lot of you and lots of other people are leveling against him. While it would surprise me on a human level, in terms of my faith in God, it would not surprise me if he were one day canonized. Even if you think he is far from worthy today, he could be made worthy by the Holy Spirit tomorrow.

I wonder if he goes to heaven and the people who hate or dislike or despise him go to heaven also whether they will be happy that he is there. Will they be offended if Our Lord gives him an honored seat at the wedding banquet?

I don’t believe what the secular media reports about Cardinal Law. I doubt that everything they say is true or that we have the whole truth.

Tuopaola,
God bless you for your post…I get very emotional over this who issue…Cardinal Law is a SCAPEGOAT!!! I too could still be very angry about this whole scandal…for it came closer than I care to say… I have forgiven!!! Why can’t the rest of you so-called Christians!!! Jesus taught us to forgive…Hate the sin love the sinner…no matter what!!!
Would we all want to be judged in the manner that some other posters have???
But for the Grace of God go al!

 

[Benedictus]

tuopaolo:

It seems like a lot of you think that Cardinal Law was or is a worse sinner than you. Let’s say he was a worse sinner? Undoubtedly he would have gone to confession. So why continue to beat him over the head at his past sins?

I think you are missing the point. I’m not a perfect person. I may not even be a good person. The thoughts are about as holy as a mule’s droppings. But none of that is relevant.

Cardinal Law has inflicted public harm upon the Church. I do not wish “to beat him over the head” because of his past sins, but I also do not think that he should be given such a public role in the Church.

If a man raped someone and then expressed remose, he should be forgiven, but that doesn’t mean he shoudn’t go to jail, and I certainly wouldn’t hire him as a baby sitter.

 

[HagiaSophia]

Mysty101:

Mysty101:

No the service is not about Cardinal Law, but the fact that he is allowed to celebrate it, and the fact that he accepted is. It is as if nothing happened.

You have a very strange sense of “nothing happened”. Perhaps for you but not for him. He is a priest, I expect him to celebrate Mass every day of his life. It is not a matter of accepting it. He is the archpriest of that basilica and once in 26 years, a pope has died and one of those Masses was to be celebrated there.He is performing the function for one who extended a hand in the darkness to him and who he gravely disappointed. Talk about sorrow.

Mysty101:

Mercy? Is he above the Law? Forgiveness means leaving it to God, but justice demands atonement, and retribution. He was protected from the law, and accepting responsibility for what he had done.

I know of no law at the present time he is violating; his life, his career is in ruins. Total and complete ruins. On the day he closes his eyes, his obit will begin with the Boston story and of what he once was. He knows that and lives with not only that but watching what is happening to Sean O’Malley a man who most of the priests and bishops in this country hold in high regard. He must tear himself apart with not just the past, but the present.

Mysty101:

Our beloved Holy Father forgave his would be assassin–but the man was in jail.

There is more than one kind of jail – he is far from home, in a very minor position, removed from his family, friends and those he has, are quiet about it because of the charitable Catholics like so many in this thread. They don’t want the critique, the flaming.

Everything he once was, and this guy had it all, NCCB, a fine canon law mind, advisor to other dioceses, high public esteem, a high profile diocese, and it’s gone, it’s all gone. Publicly scorned, excoriated, humiliated and made the poster boy for what a number of bishops did as well.

Sometimes when I read these threads I am reminded of Hester with the branded A…

and I don’t know how old you are, but I think this, when I was young, I used to pray for “justice” here and “justice” there…now I never pray for justice. I pray for mercy…for IMO if God were to provide justice to any and all of us – God help us. It is His sweet mercy we crave, His pardon we need, His forgiveness we pray for.

What more do you want? What more can he do? What finally will satisfy you?

 

[demolitionman65]

It is responses like these, H.Sophia, that made me vote for you in the CA Conclave. Well done.

 

[HagiaSophia]

demolitionman65:

It is responses like these, H.Sophia, that made me vote for you in the CA Conclave. Well done.

I thank you for both for the vote and the compliment. "tis most kind.

I am no better than anyone else here - when I read about the Shanley case, I became almost physically ill. I understand the pain and the anger of some of these people - their sense of betrayal but the danger in holding such venom and hate towards a lone individual is that the vessel which holds the poison, often eats away at itself.

We buried such a great man whis week, a man who saw the Holocaust up front and center, a man who saw his fellow priests disappear into gulags and into the night. A man who knew that the gun aimed at him came from the capital of Russia–he must have despaired of all us many many times, with our lifestyles, our habits, our rhetoric, foolish lambs flailing at life like children. Yet for 26 years he labored in our vineyard, trying to harvest us into receiving grace.

What an irony that in this week of all weeks, that a man who owed him so much, was so in need of a drop of the milk of human kindness, said a Mass for him. What must have gone through the mind of Law as he did that Mass – as he looked at that casket. The milk of human kindness is in short supply these days.

And thanks again for the kind words.

 

[Lisa_N]

Mysty101:

With all those books and reports you read, you don’t know? Maybe you need to ask your diocese from where the money for the settlements came. And maybe you might not know more that someone who has know and loved the Church for many years.

The books I read dealt with the priest abuse scandal, not where the money to pay settlements and judgments came from. In our diocese so far our insurance carrier has paid it. Our bishop’s appeal specified where the funds would go and to pay lawsuits was not on the list. The lawyers are trying to get our diocese to sell property, schools and churches to pay the amounts above the limits of the insurance company. That’s why we were forced to declare bankruptcy. The sad thing is that money is flowing into the coffers of attorneys and is benefitting neither the faithful or even the victims.

Lisa N

 

[demolitionman65]

if God were to provide justice to any and all of us – God help us.

There’s a line in Hamlet somewhere. . .the exact phrase I cannot find. . it’s late. . .I’m tired. . .at any rate, something to the effect of: “If we all received our just deserves, who should 'scape whipping?”

And thanks again for the kind words.

My pleasure. And thank *you. *I come to CA to learn. You and LisaN are two of the better teachers I have come across.

 

[demolitionman65]

The sad thing is that money is flowing into the coffers of attorneys and is benefitting neither the faithful or even the victims.

There is no question that the bishops -at large- failed in this mess. But the real travesty is just what LisaN said. This is not about justice. This is more about a bunch of jackals masquerading as fighters for justice (lawyers) lining their own pockets.

 

[Annunciata]

HagiaSophia:

Mysty101:

You have a very strange sense of “nothing happened”. Perhaps for you but not for him. He is a priest, I expect him to celebrate Mass every day of his life. It is not a matter of accepting it. He is the archpriest of that basilica and once in 26 years, a pope has died and one of those Masses was to be celebrated there.He is performing the function for one who extended a hand in the darkness to him and who he gravely disappointed. Talk about sorrow.

I know of no law at the present time he is violating; his life, his career is in ruins. Total and complete ruins. On the day he closes his eyes, his obit will begin with the Boston story and of what he once was. He knows that and lives with not only that but watching what is happening to Sean O’Malley a man who most of the priests and bishops in this country hold in high regard. He must tear himself apart with not just the past, but the present.

There is more than one kind of jail – he is far from home, in a very minor position, removed from his family, friends and those he has, are quiet about it because of the charitable Catholics like so many in this thread. They don’t want the critique, the flaming.

Everything he once was, and this guy had it all, NCCB, a fine canon law mind, advisor to other dioceses, high public esteem, a high profile diocese, and it’s gone, it’s all gone. Publicly scorned, excoriated, humiliated and made the poster boy for what a number of bishops did as well.

Sometimes when I read these threads I am reminded of Hester with the branded A…

and I don’t know how old you are, but I think this, when I was young, I used to pray for “justice” here and “justice” there…now I never pray for justice. I pray for mercy…for IMO if God were to provide justice to any and all of us – God help us. It is His sweet mercy we crave, His pardon we need, His forgiveness we pray for.

What more do you want? What more can he do? What finally will satisfy you?

You are a true and faithful Catholic, Hagia Sophia…I can’t add to anything you have said except for Amen.

 

[La_Chiara]

HagiaSophia:

You have a very strange sense of “nothing happened”. Perhaps for you but not for him. He is a priest, I expect him to celebrate Mass every day of his life. It is not a matter of accepting it. He is the archpriest of that basilica and once in 26 years, a pope has died and one of those Masses was to be celebrated there.He is performing the function for one who extended a hand in the darkness to him and who he gravely disappointed. Talk about sorrow.

I know of no law at the present time he is violating; his life, his career is in ruins. Total and complete ruins. On the day he closes his eyes, his obit will begin with the Boston story and of what he once was. He knows that and lives with not only that but watching what is happening to Sean O’Malley a man who most of the priests and bishops in this country hold in high regard. He must tear himself apart with not just the past, but the present.

There is more than one kind of jail – he is far from home, in a very minor position, removed from his family, friends and those he has, are quiet about it because of the charitable Catholics like so many in this thread. They don’t want the critique, the flaming.

Everything he once was, and this guy had it all, NCCB, a fine canon law mind, advisor to other dioceses, high public esteem, a high profile diocese, and it’s gone, it’s all gone. Publicly scorned, excoriated, humiliated and made the poster boy for what a number of bishops did as well.

Sometimes when I read these threads I am reminded of Hester with the branded A…

and I don’t know how old you are, but I think this, when I was young, I used to pray for “justice” here and “justice” there…now I never pray for justice. I pray for mercy…for IMO if God were to provide justice to any and all of us – God help us. It is His sweet mercy we crave, His pardon we need, His forgiveness we pray for.

What more do you want? What more can he do? What finally will satisfy you?

AMEN, AMEN, AMEN. Well said, Hagia Sophia!