Cardinal Mahony compares Arizona immigration bill to Nazism, Communism [CWN]

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1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

Nothing here is necessarily tied to immigration. One can support reform of immigration and not socialism. The too could be related, but they remain separate topics.
 
What does the Catechism say about respecting law and also as it pertains to injustice?
 
Below is a link to a YouTube video in which an illegal immigration supporter in AZ threatens that illegals will take up shovels and pick-axes and use them against Americans. Wonder if she’s a Catholic? She certainly has Cardinal Mahony on her side…

The real issue is not social justice, that is just a ploy. It is the attempted re-conquest of the Southwest, through the mass movement of populations, by those who want to return the Southwest to Mexican control, along with which comes the weakening and destruction of the United States. That is the agenda.

Americans need to wake up and pull their collective heads out of the sand. Here’s the link:

youtube.com/watch?v=mDlutO0KK7g&feature=player_embedded
 
The good Cardinal is not exhibiting compassion, but rather a stunning tolerance for lawlessness. :eek: This whole push for amnesty has everything to do with attaining ironclad political power, and with the replacement of our God-given freedoms with compulsory socialism. Blessings, Rob
 
sidbrown said:
That’s interesting, because Cardinal Mahony descibed a bill designed to stop illegal immigration as reverting to Russian Communist techniques. So you have socialism either way whether you approve or disapprove of illegal immigration.
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What is socialistic about disapproving of illegal immigration, Sid? :confused: Rob
 
RACJ said:
What is socialistic about disapproving of illegal immigration, Sid? :confused: Rob
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I think the point of the post was this. GAKroeger declared certain things to be true, and sidbrown pointed out that he since brought no evidence to the table, he was speaking from the exact same grounds that Cardinal Mahony was.
 
Of course Cardinal Mahony tosses the totalitarian bomb because he just like the USCCB is schizophrenic over illegal immigration. In fact I think its safe to say that a large majority of our clergy and religious from the good Cardinal on down are open border illegal alien sympathizers even though they publish reams of materials stating otherwise on the Bishop’s website and Diocean sites across the country. Just try to read the USCCB and you will get my drift. Pretty dry stuff but its do-able. Its the best Orwell’s 1984 doublespeak. Basically Mahony will do anything to denegrate his country of birth for his cause for legalization of all illegal aliens. Why in my parish we have a Lady Of Guadelupe shrine proudly displaying the Mexican flag whle an American flag is not visible anywhere. Go figure. Their actions speak louder then words. When was the last time you heard a priest say anything negative about the illegal in the pew next to you. For the fainthearted crying foul its extimated that in California about 4 in 10 Latino’s are illegal.
 
I was asked in an earlier post if I had seen any Catholic Bishop speak out on the legitimate aspects of this Arizona law, and I had to say sadly, no I had not.

I am at a loss to understand why so many Catholic Bishops feel so obligated to speak out on this issue and barely ever mention the much more grievous abortion issue. And they seem to overlook any aspect of the law other than blind support for illegal immigrants, they seem to refuse to address the other side of this issue at all. The Arizona law as I understand it (please correct me if I am wrong) does no more than restate what is already federal law that is not being enforced. The Church teaches the evil of socialism but failure to support enforcement of the federal law and/or support for this new Arizona law certainly appears to be supporting socialism. They apparently cannot see that this road will lead to the total collapse of the support structure for not only the illegal immigrants but also the tax payers of Arizona that built that structure and ultimately the support for the Church itself. America will be just like Mexico, I guess then the incentive to sneak in will be gone, problem solved.

I know that majority does not rule, but can 90% of Arizona citizens be wrong about this?

This link to an article in the Catholic Sun reporting on the Bishops objection to this law has reader comments at the bottom of the article. They are obviously mostly Catholic readers, and eight out of eight comments disagrees with the Bishops.

catholicsun.org/2010/april/26/1070-kicanas.html
 
Great points all. I am not confusing politics and morality, however. I’m smart enough to know the difference like most of us here. But I would argue that the Church thinks this IS a moral issue, immigration. The Church has a lot to say about it and it’s a humanitarian morality issue for them IMO. Personally I think the liberation theology and ethnic pandering is mostly just absurd and I think they try to cloak it in morality because it’s good for business and they actually believe illegal immigration and no borders is a good thing.

I agree with your last sentence especially. If the feds won’t step up and enforce their own laws because of fears of being called racist bigots, then the states need to do the job. But we’re already seeing the governor being called a Nazi and other tripe. Pretty soon we’ll see priests and bishops in these marches, just watch…
gakroeger said:
I think you are confusing politics and morality. The Church has a perfect right (even and obligation) to express Catholic teaching whether it is politics or morals. The question here is whether these Bishops are placing the correct emphasis on these issues according to the seriousness of the issue according to the magisterium. The magisterium has declared abortion an intrinsic evil; they have not declared the U.S. Immigration laws as such. As I see it the Arizona laws were put in place to substitute for the U.S. immigration laws that were not being enforced.
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Melvin said:
Below is a link to a YouTube video in which an illegal immigration supporter in AZ threatens that illegals will take up shovels and pick-axes and use them against Americans. Wonder if she’s a Catholic?
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Violence is not part of Catholic teaching. Are you open to listening to what Catholic leaders are saying about our moral obligation to all people?
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
Great points all. I am not confusing politics and morality, however. I’m smart enough to know the difference like most of us here. But I would argue that the Church thinks this IS a moral issue, immigration. The Church has a lot to say about it and it’s a humanitarian morality issue for them IMO. Personally I think the liberation theology and ethnic pandering is mostly just absurd and I think they try to cloak it in morality because it’s good for business and they actually believe illegal immigration and no borders is a good thing.

I agree with your last sentence especially. If the feds won’t step up and enforce their own laws because of fears of being called racist bigots, then the states need to do the job. But we’re already seeing the governor being called a Nazi and other tripe. Pretty soon we’ll see priests and bishops in these marches, just watch…
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Unfortunately, you are probably correct. We need more priests and bishops with a more full knowledge and understanding of politics and morals such as Father Corapi. He seems to fearlessly walk where angels fear to tread. I truly believe he is the Saint Paul for our time. Pray the Rosary every day, it is our only hope. Also, I ask everyone (as has been requested elsewhere on this forum) to set your watch alarm for 9 PM eastern (6 PM pacific, etc) and say a prayer for our country along with hopefully millions of others every night.

God save this country for our children and grandchildren… Thousands have died for our freedoms and we now have a government that is throwing it all away.

This letter to President Obama from a 94 year old vet sums it up pretty well…
 
Lujack said:
So we should look at people for what they can give us rather than what we can give them? That’s a Machiavellian way to look at the world.
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As Robert Frost’s poem said, “Good fences make good neighbors.” The United States is very generous in taking in political refugees witness the Cubans and Vietnamese. The problem is that Mexico is a corrupt state with a small middle-class, a small and rapacious upper class, and a very large number of poor people. Our rich people --in private–argue that
emigation is a safety valve that prevents revolution right on our border. The flip side is that it protects a very bad government from the consequences of its actions.
 
It’s more than that, Robby. The flip side is that it validates and encourages the corruption. The dynamic as it stands produces co-dependency. The true threat of revolution might get the Mexican gov’t to make some concessions to the development of a more thriving middle class or at least an economy with broader opportunity. All kinds of constructive alliances with the U.S. are possible, if Mexico ends it current barbaric policies which dehumanize its citizens while continuing to drain them of cash both south and north of the border. For example, Mexico could agree to provide low-cost education (to subsidize it), which would make the absorption of literate, skilled, educated workers more beneficial to the U.S. and thus make generous legal immigration from the south more attractive to the U.S. (not to mention less expensive to us). More creative educational alliances are also possible.

But you are right: our gov’t not only has the right to take control, it has the moral responsibility (not just to our citizens, but to the ultimate solution to the situation) to take control.

Irresponsibility is not a virtue, nor is it an element of “social justice.”
 
Melvin said:
The Bishops do not seem to care one whit about the effect of massive illegal immigration on the American people. They couldn’t care less about our loss of health services, jobs, failing schools, the fracturing of our society, the American victims of criminal aliens, or anything else.
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That does present a problem to people who are trying to live the Catholic faith.
 
Melvin said:
Below is a link to a YouTube video in which an illegal immigration supporter in AZ threatens that illegals will take up shovels and pick-axes and use them against Americans. Wonder if she’s a Catholic? She certainly has Cardinal Mahony on her side…

The real issue is not social justice, that is just a ploy. It is the attempted re-conquest of the Southwest, through the mass movement of populations, by those who want to return the Southwest to Mexican control, along with which comes the weakening and destruction of the United States. That is the agenda.

Americans need to wake up and pull their collective heads out of the sand. Here’s the link:

youtube.com/watch?v=mDlutO0KK7g&feature=player_embedded
Click to expand...
Will Cardinal Mahony do anything to protect the American children and adults who will be injured and killed when these illegal immigration supporters use their pickaxes and shovels against them?
 
pnewton said:
Violence is not part of Catholic teaching. Are you open to listening to what Catholic leaders are saying about our moral obligation to all people?
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But i thought that self-defense was allowed in Catholicism.
 
So has anybody noticed (don’t have time to search all the posts) that the Arizona governor signed another bill within 24 hours of signing the immigration bill. This bill will make Arizona the first state in the union to opt out of federal funding for abortion through the state run health care exchanges in the new health care law. A quick google of the terms USCCB and Arizona turns up nothing but the anti-immigration rage.

This is quite a pickle for our bishops. The Church has strong teachings about both. But abortion trumps all. The governor seat in AZ is up for grabs in November. If Brewer was to be opposed by a candidate vowed to overturn the new immigration law and the anti-abortion law, Catholics would have to vote for Brewer based on the greater evil that is abortion.

It’s a learning opportunity. Wonder if the Bishops will jump on it. Hmmmm.

Not sure if it’s okay to provide this link, but here goes:
1timothy315.blogspot.com/2010/04/arizona-learning-opportunity-for.html
contains links to sources for the story
 
timrohr said:
So has anybody noticed (don’t have time to search all the posts) that the Arizona governor signed another bill within 24 hours of signing the immigration bill. This bill will make Arizona the first state in the union to opt out of federal funding for abortion through the state run health care exchanges in the new health care law. A quick google of the terms USCCB and Arizona turns up nothing but the anti-immigration rage.

This is quite a pickle for our bishops. The Church has strong teachings about both. But abortion trumps all. The governor seat in AZ is up for grabs in November. If Brewer was to be opposed by a candidate vowed to overturn the new immigration law and the anti-abortion law, Catholics would have to vote for Brewer based on the greater evil that is abortion.

It’s a learning opportunity. Wonder if the Bishops will jump on it. Hmmmm.

Not sure if it’s okay to provide this link, but here goes:
1timothy315.blogspot.com/2010/04/arizona-learning-opportunity-for.html
contains links to sources for the story
Click to expand...
I thought that abortion trumps other issues, but why are the bishops silent on this courageous pro-life decision of the governor of Arizona?
 
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