Cardinal Mahony: "There is no liturgical abuses in L.A"

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:crying: Its bad, but it could be worse. I mean atleast they’re using a non-absorbant material like wood. Or those “doughnut” masses. We need to pray for this stuff because since the change from latin to vernacular people view mass as a prayer-get-together not as an eternal sacrifice that is renewed. We took on a Protestant outlook…So very sad.
 
No liturgical abuses in LA and no gay “ministry” in Cleveland.

Some people just have their heads in the sand…
 
I didn’t think the Cardinal could overrule something reprobated by Redemptionis Sacramentum. Isn’t he also the one, having introduced numerous changes in the liturgy in his Archdiocese, who expressed concern that the changes in the draft revised missal would be hard for people to adjust to?
 
Many parishes also took the opportunity to renovate their Church sanctuaries to allow for the fuller celebration of the Eucharist and the other Sacraments.
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:crying:
 
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twiztedseraph:
We need to pray for this stuff because since the change from latin to vernacular people view mass as a prayer-get-together not as an eternal sacrifice that is renewed. We took on a Protestant outlook…
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Today’s error: Post Hoc.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
The Archdiocese of Los Angeles is not the Diocese of Lincoln of Bishop Bruzkewicz where there is indults everywhere and every parish is practically orthodox. I hope some people are bit more understanding.
 
Bishops have more latitude than parish priests. Again, what is in question is if one is to abide by the letter of the law or the spirit of the law. The liturgical changes promulgated by RS cannot be deemed more important than the SPIRIT in which those changes were made.

Look closely at the pictures. Cardinal Mahoney is obviously saying Mass at a Conference–and a very large one at that. You can see that people are seated in bleachers. I’ve been to such conferences and there can be several thousand people present for one liturgy!

So … if the Cardinal followed the “rules” of RS, I wonder how many chalices he would need??? Where would he put them all??? Seems to me there would be more danger of spillage if he had followed the “rule” rather than the “spirit.”

Remember: The Pharisees followed the rules.
 
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MaryAgnes:
Bishops have more latitude than parish priests. Again, we can abide by the letter of the law or the spirit of the law. What is more important than the liturgical changes promulgated by RS is the SPIRIT
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No matter what intentions they have. Our LORD JESUS CHRIST should not be subjected to this. As a King he deserves to be treated better than a kool aid resembling party. He deserves to be the finest material we can afford Him, not some common wine pitcher.
 
+Mahoney:
Priests, deacons, religious, liturgical leaders and ministers
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What is the difference between priests and a “liturgical leaders”.

The the Cardinal have someone other than priests leading the liturgy?
 
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MaryAgnes:
Remember: The Pharisees followed the rules.
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Should I go out and steal, commit fornication, etc since they are the rules say not to? Since people who do not commit fornication and rob the bank are pharisees too?

No, what makes a pharisee a pharisee was not that they followed the rules, that they thought they were “not like everyone else” why they were, in essence, hypocrites.

They were also mechanical in their approach to their Lord.

IF only just people were allowed correct other people, then we would all have to shut up and allow injustices to abound.
 
And this is not about the rules. Look at how Our Lord is being mistreated. He is being treated no differently than a kool aid in a glass pitcher. This simply too far and too outrageous.

Look, if a priest mispronounces a word, etc. no big deal but if they treat Our Lord Jesus Christ like in the picture. THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!

What ever happened to obiedence to Rome when the command was just?
 
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Confiteor:
I didn’t think the Cardinal could overrule something reprobated by Redemptionis Sacramentum. Isn’t he also the one, having introduced numerous changes in the liturgy in his Archdiocese, who expressed concern that the changes in the draft revised missal would be hard for people to adjust to?
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I would think it would not be hard to adjust. So better understanding might come of the changes that start realizing Who is in front them.
 
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Iohannes:
No matter what intentions they have. Our LORD JESUS CHRIST should not be subjected to this. As a King he deserves to be treated better than a kool aid resembling party. He deserves to be the finest material we can afford Him, not some common wine pitcher.
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“Which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred?” (Matt 23:19) The Pharisees thought it was the gift–they got it wrong.

Too often we do the same. We are concerned about the flagen (pitcher) and not the contents. It’s really not about the material–The finest material we can afford would still be insignificant in comparison to the unconditional gratuitous gift of Eucharist! What is important is that the sacred elements not be spilled (the spirit of the law).

BTW, I find it very offensive that you refer to the Consecrated Species and the Mass setting depicted in the pictures as comparable to “a kool aid resembling party.” Very offensive, indeed! :tsktsk:
 
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MaryAgnes:
BTW, I find it very offensive that you refer to the Consecrated Species and the Mass setting depicted in the pictures as comparable to “a kool aid resembling party.” Very offensive, indeed! :tsktsk:
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I’ll use a response here that resembles the one used when the restrained use of graphic images of abortion are labeled “offensive” by those who don’t like their arguments for thier preferences countered by little inconveniences like photographic proof of what’s really going on. Just like the pictures of abortion are offensive because of what htey show and not who’s showing them, it’s not the fault of Iohannes that the setting depicted in the pictures clearly showed gross offenses against Consecrated Species and the mass. The fault for those offenses fall squarely on the celebrant. Even Cardinals are bound to obey both the letter and spirit of the instruction of the Church, and the abuses shown indicate he wasn’t following either. Cardinals are held to a higher standard, not a lesser one, because of thier increased responsibility and influence.
 
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MaryAgnes:
Look closely at the pictures. Cardinal Mahoney is obviously saying Mass at a Conference–and a very large one at that. You can see that people are seated in bleachers. I’ve been to such conferences and there can be several thousand people present for one liturgy!

So … if the Cardinal followed the “rules” of RS, I wonder how many chalices he would need??? Where would he put them all??? Seems to me there would be more danger of spillage if he had followed the “rule” rather than the “spirit.”

Remember: The Pharisees followed the rules.
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  1. Yes, the Pharisees followed the rules, and our Lord did not fault them for that. He faulted them for giving false emphasis to rules they had made up and for following rules in lieu of following charity.
  2. As for flagons vs. chalices, the solution for the conference would have been simple: Communion under one kind. Not only would this have meant that the rubrics would have been followed (rubrics = rules), but there would have been no chance of spillage. Plus, Communion would have gone more expeditiously.
 
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Iohannes:
HAHAHAHA!!!

the-tidings.com/2004/0910/liturgy.htm

http://www.the-tidings.com/2005/0805/newsbriefs1.jpg

onelacatholic.blogspot.com/2005/08/redemptionis-sacramentum-for-dummies.html

onelacatholic.blogspot.com

http://www.recongress.org/2005/pix/close/med_MVC-115S.jpg
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I know for a fact that there are still liturgical abuses in the LA diocese as well as I know that there are liturgical abuses here in the Orange diocese.

When were these photos taken?

Did anyone attend the last RE Conference in Anaheim? Was the cardinal still using glass chalices? How many Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion were distributing?

I think Karl’s idea is a good one not only not only at the RE conferencese but at churches. One of the reason we have these armies of EM’sHC is because we are distributing under both species. The other reason is, in our diocese our BISHOP has mandated the use of EM’sHC even when a church doesn’t need them. I suspect it’s the same for Los Angeles.

I think the Los Angeles and Orange diocese should rename Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion to **ORDINARY **Ministers of Holy Communion because they are hardly ever used in Extraordinary circumstances.
 
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