Cardinal Sarah: return to Communion directly on the tongue while kneeling

[ConstantLearner]

The people who need Christ most are not saints. Some people physically cannot use their legs even with a great amount of help. They could be saints, too, and no matter what, they should not be excluded from communio as long as they are in a state of grace.

Kneeling isn’t going to make a person rever Christ any more than standing up will do. Reverence for the Real Presence in Holy Communion lies in the heart, not the knees.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

…care for the sick, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give drink to the thirsty…

 

[Teek]

The people who need Christ most are not saints. Some people physically cannot use their legs even with a great amount of help. They could be saints, too, and no matter what, they should not be excluded from communio as long as they are in a state of grace.

Kneeling isn’t going to make a person rever Christ any more than standing up will do. Reverence for the Real Presence in Holy Communion lies in the heart, not the knees.

The Saints needed Christ as much as all the rest of us. They had the same battle to fight, their own crosses to carry. Some more than others. None would have prevailed without Christ.

Do you think an argument is being made that people should be excluded from Communion because they cannot, by no fault of their own, kneel?

There are many people who cannot kneel.

There are also many people who have no reason not to kneel.

Kneeling may or may not make a person revere Christ any more than standing up will do. Revering Christ will make a person kneel, though, if they are able. And kneeling will inherently, in its very act, inform all witnesses that what is received here is not ordinary.

I am not saying that people who stand do not revere Christ: I am saying that kneeling is an act of reverence that flows from recognition of Who we receive. It is the Lord. There are other acts of reverence that the Church recognizes as adequate. If we receive standing we are to bow or show some sign of reverence.

I posted the picture because it is of a man of great devotion to the Eucharist, whose reverence caused him to kneel. I think it is beautiful, and his devotion to the Eucharist inspires me.

 

[Teek]

I’m sorry, I am not certain what you are communicating with that reply in this context.

The things that are done with our hands that are “unclean” are one of the reasons not receive in the hands.

The good things we do with our hands are not an argument for receiving in the hands. Nor do those things nullify the fact that the “unclean” things that we do with our hands create a potential for desecrating the Eucharist if we were to recieve in the hands.

I hope I didn’t miss your point.

 

[Teek]

The Vatican does have a recommendation for reception of Communion.

“Kneeling indicates and promotes the adoration necessary before receiving the Eucharistic Christ.“

http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/details/ns_lit_doc_20091117_comunione_en.html

 

[ConstantLearner]

No, I’m not against kneeling. I’m only saying people who can’t kneel should not be excluded from reception of communion, and the Church should realize that. Cardinal Sarah, with all due respect, and I do respect him, should realize that.

 

[OraLabora]

So, you take out the trash with your tongue, do you? Mop the floor. Clean the toilet. Pet the dog. (Ha ha.)

None of which are sins.

Didn’t you mother teach you to wash your hands after doing those things?

And I bet she threatened you once or twice to wash out your mouth with soap

 

[Teek]

None of which are sins.

True. But we are not talking about what makes a person “unclean.” We are talking about taking the same care to protect the Eucharist from desecration as we do with, say, the chalice.

If a person’s hands and a person’s tongue both were equally impure, receiving in the hands doubles the chance of desecration—hands + tongue.

 

[pnewton]

If a person’s hands and a person’s tongue both were equally impure, receiving in the hands doubles the chance of desecration—hands + tongue.

Are they equal?

Likewise, the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark. 6 The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole course of one’s life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.

I couldn’t resist.

They are both part of the same body that is either disposed to grace or not. Really? It doubles the chance?

Aren’t there enough sinners in need of real conversion such that we should stop trying to convert each other to our own preferences as a Catholic?

 

[CilladeRoma]

Aren’t there enough sinners in need of real conversion such that we should stop trying to convert each other to our own preferences as a Catholic?

You win the internet today, @pnewton

 

[Mi_Rose]

An old person with poor balance and bad eyesight behind someone who wants to kneel is a disaster waiting to happen… If you want to kneel where there are no kneelers just wait and go to the end of the line.

 

[OraLabora]

Revering Christ will make a person kneel, though, if they are able. And kneeling will inherently, in its very act, inform all witnesses that what is received here is not ordinary.

No, it is as much cultural as anything else. A Ukrainian Catholic (in communion with Rome) regularly attends Mass at our abbey. He stands throughout the entire EP including consecration. In his culture, profound reverence is shown by standing.

Which is why, wisely, Rome pretty much leaves it up to épiscopal conferences and ordinaries to regulate. The Church is now beyond Western European. Moreover, in many Western nations the increasing average age of parishioners is such that making standing the norm increasingly makes sense to foster a sense of liturgical unity. It becomes an act of charity, something all Catholics are obliged to do.

One thing I’ve learned about Liturgy over the years, is that it’s not « all about me ». It is in fact about intimate communion to the Body of Christ. Mind you unity does not preclude diversity, which is why both means are allowed, but that diversity, as pnewton said so eloquently, does not mean endless arguing between ourselves about which is better. That in fact is an act of disobedience. It means acceptance and respect of the other.

 

[pnewton]

An old person with poor balance and bad eyesight behind someone who wants to kneel is a disaster waiting to happen… If you want to kneel where there are no kneelers just wait and go to the end of the line.

Here is my objection to this. If this person moves forward to where another is kneeling, isn’t it just as likely they move forward to where the person is standing? How does someone with the worst eyesight miss a full grown person kneeling in front of you? It would make more, since the Church has made it abundantly clear that one may receive kneeling, that a person too impaired to go through the communion line safely sit in the front row and receive there.

The point is, a person has every right of conscience to receive in this manner. Period.

 

[paperwight]

Mi_Rose:

An old person with poor balance and bad eyesight behind someone who wants to kneel is a disaster waiting to happen… If you want to kneel where there are no kneelers just wait and go to the end of the line.

Here is my objection to this. If this person moves forward to where another is kneeling, isn’t it just as likely they move forward to where the person is standing? How does someone with the worst eyesight miss a full grown person kneeling in front of you? It would make more, since the Church has made it abundantly clear that one may receive kneeling, that a person too impaired to go through the communion line safely sit in the front row and receive there.

The point is, a person has every right of conscience to receive in this manner. Period.

You are forgetting that when someone kneels, their legs and feet are sticking out behind the rest of their body.
Why should a person who is fighting to maintain independence and not ‘give in’ as many older people see it, have to behave as if hey are more incapacitated than they are, just because the one wanting to kneel can’t wait until the end of the line?
After all, like it or not, the older generation far outnumber those wanting to kneel, and diminished sight comes to most people in the end.

 

[Maximilian75]

That’s how i rccieve when I am not serving… most of the time it goes over without a hitch.

 

[pnewton]

Why should a person who is fighting to maintain independence and not ‘give in’ as many older people see it, have to behave as if hey are more incapacitated than they are, just because the one wanting to kneel can’t wait until the end of the line?

Why can’t a person pay attention? Or why can’t a person stay up front? For that matter, let those who want to kneel come first. All of this, and what you said, all work. It would be a pastor’s call which is best.

The point remains, Rome has spoken. We obey, and stop all this griping about people who kneel.

After all, like it or not, the older generation far outnumber those wanting to kneel

Yes, but those so diminished as to no recognize a human being kneeling in front of them probably does not. I know many elderly but the ones I know that are legally blind or close, do not go up in communion line, but receive in the pew. That is our solution that no one kneels at my parish. I guess they figure if it is unsafe, it is unsafe.

 

[Augustinian]

A Ukrainian Catholic (in communion with Rome) regularly attends Mass at our abbey. He stands throughout the entire EP including consecration.

I don’t understand this, why a Ukrainian would stand where everyone else is kneeling. If I was in a Ukrainian church, I’d would follow the lead of the Ukrainians present and assume the same posture as them.

 

[Teek]

They are both part of the same body that is either disposed to grace or not. Really? It doubles the chance?

Aren’t there enough sinners in need of real conversion such that we should stop trying to convert each other to our own preferences as a Catholic?

It is not about the purity of the person. It is about desecrating the Eucharist with hands that are not clean, or, if a person’s tongue is in the same state as their hands as the person I replied to said, then I suppose an unclean mouth, though that is not my view. Not about the spiritual disposition to receive grace, or doubling it or halving it, but about the physical reality of dirty hands touching the Most Precious Body of our Lord.

If there are two dirty contacts, then yes, it would be twice as much desecration, if that were the case.

It is not a “preference” to recognize the True Presence of Jesus Christ, body and blood, soul and divinity in the Eucharist. It is Truth.

Do we wash our hands after touching the Body of our Savior with the same care as we wash the vessels that held His body and His blood? When we touch the Eucharist, our hands become vessels that have contained the Eucharist, and therefor could retain precious particles. They should either be treated to the same care as the consecrated vessels to ensure the proper reverence of the Eucharist, or should not be used.

Not many people in my Parish kneel for Communion. They removed the Communion rails years ago and the marble floor is an obstacle—not an excuse but a REASON that impedes many people. That is not to be taken lightly. I know so many good and holy people that receive the Eucharist in all of the accepted ways. They are not less or more holy because of that one detail.

It isn’t about everyone around us, what they feel or what they want or what they are comfortable with. It is about Who we encounter in the Blessed Sacrament of the Altar.

We use the patens to catch any particles that may fall as the host is distributed. No matter how tiny. But the particles on a person’s hands can be wiped on their pants, lost in their coat sleeve, rubbed off on the door handle, etc.

If those particles do not matter, why does the priest so carefully tend to the washing of the vessels after Communion? Is it just a symbol, or just for show, or a vestigial tradition? NO! It is done out of love and reverence for the Eucharist. Why should it be any different for the particles on our hands?

 

[Teek]

No, it is as much cultural as anything else.

That is very, very incorrect. Kneeling is Biblical, not cultural.

“The kneeling of Christians is not a form of inculturation into existing customs. It is quite the opposite, an expression of Christian culture, which transforms the existing culture through a new and deeper knowledge and experience of God.” Pope Benedict XVI

The article below goes into more depth.

The Theology of Kneeling

The theology of kneeling is explained by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, in the following excerpt from a chapter, “The Body and the Liturgy”, in The Spirit of the Liturgy, published by Ignatius Press in 2000, reprinted with permission...

adoremus.org

 

[PeterT]

OraLabora:

A Ukrainian Catholic (in communion with Rome) regularly attends Mass at our abbey. He stands throughout the entire EP including consecration.

I don’t understand this, why a Ukrainian would stand where everyone else is kneeling. If I was in a Ukrainian church, I’d would follow the lead of the Ukrainians present and assume the same posture as them.

I suspect it’s the same reason why some U.S. Catholics who attend Mass at a church where the normative posture to receive Holy Communion is to receive it standing up, decide instead to receive it while kneeling. They might be more concerned and place more importance in expressing their individual piety than in the importance of showing unity with the rest of faithful as the mystical Body of Christ.