Cardinal Sheen?

[havemercy]

Bishop Sheen! Boy, does that bring back the memories! as l little lad when visiting my Grandmother in Canada, she always had him on. This must’ve been in the early 60’s. Those were the days when the Church’s were full in the Montreal area. It is sad how the people in Quebec have turned from the Church.

haha shucks. You’re right.

 

[Brian_C]

If I am not mistaken, Avery Dulles was appointed when he was already too old to vote for the pope, so it was something of an honorary thing, I assume to set an example in favor of orthodoxy. Theologians of greater world renown such as Karl Rahner would have had no chance.

Exactly, but Sheen died in his 80’s. Look, I known being a “superstar” does qualify one for elivation to cardinal, but I think it obvious to anyone who’s spent time listening to and reading Sheen and knows his impact combined with his standing in the Church…

 

[mosher]

Exactly, but Sheen died in his 80’s. Look, I known being a “superstar” does qualify one for elivation to cardinal, but I think it obvious to anyone who’s spent time listening to and reading Sheen and knows his impact combined with his standing in the Church…

That in mind I am aware of much politics that would have kept him from receiving the red hat. Him and many powerful clerics did not always co-exist well in peace. Both liberals and conservatives disliked him and so it may have been a point of division that the Popes did not want to deal with in those days.

 

[Cortes]

**Can anyone tell me why Archbishop Sheen was never elevated to Cardinal? ** Was it just bad timing (ie if he’d ived longer into JPII’s papacy) or was there tension somewhere? I’ve aways wondered and searched the threads but never saw it discussed. Surely such an archbishop who touched so many lives was worthy of the honor…

I mean, is Cardinal Dulles the only American cardinal who wasn’t archbishop of a huge archdiocese? Forgive me if this has been answered and I missed it in my search!

Three words. Francis Cardinal Spellman.

 

[mosher]

Three words. Francis Cardinal Spellman.

Yep.

 

[John_Higgins]

Yeah, archbishop was a compromise. Plus, by all accounts he was a bad fit in Rochester. Three years was good enough for him. Back in '69 bishops died in the saddle rather than retire. I’m sure it was Spellman’s exile.

No matter, I believe his cause will advance. St. Fulton? Nah. Actually his name was Peter.

John

 

[johnnykins]

Yes, he was a titular archbishop, in fact the Titular Archbishop of Newport in Wales. They always give such a person a defunct diocese, often something in North Africa.

Other bishops who were not archbishops of large dioceses have been made cardinals, almost always if they were called to Rome to serve in the Curia. Cardinal Wright of Pittsburgh was in that category.

John Henry Cardinal Newman, btw, was another cardinal was never ordained a bishop at all, as was Augustin Cardinal Bea, like Dulles a Jesuit theologian.

You might want to add Cardinal Mazarin to that list of famous Cardinals who were not Bishops. Of course he was a politician and not at theologian to my knowledge.

You might want to note that Cardinal Wright was originally from Boston - Dorchester to be precise - and a Boston Latin School graduate. He was ordained a priest of the Boston Archdiocese, then Auxiliary there, then Bishop of Worcester and finally Bishop of Pittsburgh before going to the Curia.

 

[johnnykins]

One also has to give consideration to the notion that the college of cardinals, or at least those eligible to vote, has to be limited to the number who can fit in the Sistine Chapel. As silly as that sounds, that is in fact the main limiting consideration. So every decision to make a cardinal is taken very carefully. In the US, only New York, Philadelphia, Chicago, Boston, Washington, and Los Angeles are guaranteed to have a cardinal. Washington is smaller, but is of course the capital. The rationale for Boston when Baltimore does not always have one escapes me. (There are in fact more American cardinals, of course, but where they are is not always the same.)

If I am not mistaken, Avery Dulles was appointed when he was already too old to vote for the pope, so it was something of an honorary thing, I assume to set an example in favor of orthodoxy. Theologians of greater world renown such as Karl Rahner would have had no chance.

No archdiocese is “guaranteed” a cardinal, though the ones you name usually are allotted one due to their size and importance. As for Boston, it is a much larger Archdiocese than Baltimore. The cities themselves are about the same size, but metropolitan Boston (the SMSA and/or CSMSA) is considerably bigger - and the Archdiocese comes close to matching the SMSA. If I’m not mistaken the Archdiocese of Boston is bigger in terms of the number of Catholics than the Archdiocese of New York. (Keep in mind Brooklyn is a suffragen of NY and is quite large - which skews things, too).

 

[johnnykins]

Now THAT’S the type of thing I was wondering about. I realize Fathers Groeschel, Corapi, and Pacwa are superstars to many of us today but from everything I can see, Sheen was a superstar to many OUTSIDE the Catholic community. Sheen’s TV ministry is even credited with helping JFK get elected b/c he gave such an all-American face to Catholicism. Not that that’s a reason to make someone a cardinal, but…I just can’t understand why such a celebrated bishop wasn’t made a prince of the Church.

But yes, St. Fulton Sheen sounds better than Cardinal Sheen any day…

Oh dear - the Kennedy card. President Kennedy’s bishop was Cardinal Cushing - not Cardinal Spellman. Spellman is often “credited” with keeping Cushing from being named a cardinal as long as Pius XII was alive - 14 years after his elevation to the Archbishopric. History is still figuring out how well they got along. They were both Auxiliaries of Boston - indeed they were pastors of Sacred Heart, Newton, one after the other as Auxiliaries. Spellman was willing to risk Cardinal O’Connell’s displeasure in Boston. (Witness his letter to O’Connell after being appointed pastor of Sacred Heart, and having Cardinal Pacelli stay with him in Newton - and pointedly not with O’Connell - when Pacelli toured the USA). If Sheen were associated with Cushing too closely I would not be shocked to find that was an impediment in the eyes of his Ordinary.

Someone else suggested Bishop Sheen’s problem was Cardinal Spellman - and this would be just another supporting plank in that edifice.

Boston Archdiocese population: 3.9MM/ Baltimore 3.0MM

 

[johnnykins]

An aside on the issue of fitting in the Sistine Chapel - while the elections now take place in the Sistine Chapel, for some time before that they took place in the Quirinal Palace - and other places, too. The Sistine Chapel is not a limiting factor in and of itself since another location could easily be chosen.

BTW I looked up the population of the NY Archdiocese - and it has had a larger Catholic population than Boston for some years now. I was remembering back to the 6o0’s and 70’s without checking on the issue.

Mea culpa.

 

[BillyT92679]

No archdiocese is “guaranteed” a cardinal, though the ones you name usually are allotted one due to their size and importance. As for Boston, it is a much larger Archdiocese than Baltimore. The cities themselves are about the same size, but metropolitan Boston (the SMSA and/or CSMSA) is considerably bigger - and the Archdiocese comes close to matching the SMSA. If I’m not mistaken the Archdiocese of Boston is bigger in terms of the number of Catholics than the Archdiocese of New York. (Keep in mind Brooklyn is a suffragen of NY and is quite large - which skews things, too).

Baltimore is almost always a Cardinal see since it is the primordial (and therefore in a sense the “primatial” though there is no Primate of America or something) see, going back to Bishop Carroll.
I always wondered why Detroit is always a Cardinal see while New Orleans or Miami are not. My Diocese, Buffalo, has more Catholics than many American Archdioceses.

 

[chevalier]

Just in case anyone’s interested, even in the second half of the 19th century, there was a cardinal who wasn’t a priest. Giacomo Card. Antonelli, although the last one was someone who doesn’t have a wiki entry (seems to be Card. Mertel, a lawyer). It was normal before, as some cardinals received only minor orders… perhaps even just the tonsure (or maybe even not), but Card. Antonelli was the last “lay” one, I think.