Cardinal Tobin discusses the Catechism’s language on homosexuality

  • Thread starter Thread starter CTBcin
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
niceatheist said:
Perhaps they come here and see people they know and love described as “degenerates”.
Click to expand...
Or perverts, or pedophiles… and then wash their hands of anything having to do with the Catholic Church. Like I said, they walk away right there and then and don’t stick around for any explanation.
 
Last edited:
Indeed . I don’t like to say it, but the hatred that comes out in places here, covered by a thin coat of the ever useful bit of unintended irony; “hate the sin, love the sinner”, makes the church look as welcoming as a spiritual abbatoir. I understand the Church’s position on SSA is more nuanced, but for those whose faith is legalistic, I don’t see much welcome for those with SSA, or for younger people who don’t view homosexuals as “degenerates”.

And honestly, what’s the fixation on gay people? What about adulterers? Why aren’t they labeled as degenerates? What about those who covet the possessions of others?
 
niceatheist said:
And honestly, what’s the fixation on gay people? What about adulterers? Why aren’t they labeled as degenerates? What about those who covet the possessions of others?
Click to expand...
Honestly, I am as baffled as you.

And to be honest, had I not been born a Catholic and not received a good Jesuit education, I doubt that I would consider converting to Catholicism because of the obsession with gay people. I would have concluded that the Church is irreparably homophobic and walk away in disgust.

BTW, I am one of those progressive Catholics who are asked by friends why am I still in the Church anyway? Sadly, I’m running out of answers.
 
niceatheist said:
And honestly, what’s the fixation on gay people? What about adulterers? Why aren’t they labeled as degenerates? What about those who covet the possessions of others?
Click to expand...
I haven’t personally seen the term “degenerate” used on this forum, but I’m sure it’s been used before in other places and perhaps here as well, which is unfortunate. Most of the blatantly hateful things I see regarding homosexuality tend to come from the fundamentalist Protestant community.

I think most people here would see adultery as incredibly serious. I know I do. But here’s the difference: very few people in our society would argue that adultery is okay. On the flip side, an ever increasing majority of society is supportive homosexuality, to the point where society’s entire understanding of marriage has changed. So naturally, supporters of the Church’s natural law position are going to fight against what is seen as an error.
 
What if you feel what consenting adults do is not your business or the business of your church, but looking through history and seeing how a group of people were selectively persecuted (after all if you were aristocratic or noble, and were gay, it was overlooked, buggery charges were for common folk), it’s hard in modern society and sit back and watch some still treat these people like subhuman perverts?

Here’s what I think. I think the Church has a right to regulate it’s beliefs. It has no more and no less right to try to command a society than any other group, and in a free society it’s going to have to content itself with some loss of influence. Perhaps it is time the church and it’s members work towards pulling the rafter out for their own eye, and not worrying about picking th needle out of their brother’s.
 
Last edited:
niceatheist said:
Here’s what I think. I think the Church has a right to regulate it’s beliefs. It has no more and no less right to try to command a society than any other group, and in a free society it’s going to have to content itself with some loss of influence. Perhaps it is time the church and it’s members work towards pulling the rafter out for their own eye, and not worrying about picking th needle out of their brother’s.
Click to expand...
Sure, I can’t argue that the Church’s influence waxes and wanes at various points of human history. But, I would argue that the Church always has the responsibility to promote the true and the good, no matter the Church’s standing or level of influence in society. And no matter how popular or unpopular the issue.

I would be careful with the “needle in the brother’s eye” mentality. The Church also works against injustices towards the poor and immigrants. Should we also stop pointing out these sins and working against them?
 
Last edited:
Thorolfr said:
I see threads all the time from people struggling with masturbation but people don’t usually pile on and tell this person that this is a “disordered” inclination and something which “cries out to heaven for vengeance.
Click to expand...
From the Catechism
2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.
If they want to change than they usually are met with compassion, so that’s probably why that happens. And there are plenty of threads where they don’t want to give that up and they get called out for it.
 
Last edited:
But surely that promotion should be within the framework of respect and decency. Some of the way gay people are talked about around here is positively nauseating. It doesn’t take much of search to find people on these very forums who advocated re-outlawing gay sex, wringing their hands because tv show has a gay character, freely advocating that there is some gay cabal out to spread homosexuality, and when a moderate Catholic intervenes they’re labeled a cafeteria Catholic, or worse an out and out fraud who isn’t a real Catholic at all.

If I were searching for a new spiritual home, would it be in a church that at best weakly retorts to its more outspoken and bigoted members such thin exhortations that amount to “sure, gay people are disordered, but be nice to them”?
 
niceatheist said:
Some of the way gay people are talked about around here is positively nauseating.
Click to expand...
I thoroughly agree. Jesus would cry at the thinly veiled hatred that some “Christians”, including some “Catholics”, harbor toward gay people.
 
Last edited:
40.png
same-sex attraction Moral Theology
An eroticized attraction, “admiring characteristics/beauty”, in the same sex is unhealthy, unwholesome, and an aberration from God’s design. Whether such a SSA is a truly a psychological disorder is dependent on variables of persistence, duration beyond adolescence, … However, I resent the idea that we should be “repulsed” by same-sex attraction. (I know I will get a barrage of negative responses to this.) Those of us who are gay are constantly told how “repulsive” and depraved we are. I …
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
niceatheist said:
It doesn’t take much of search to find people on these very forums who advocated re-outlawing gay sex, wringing their hands because tv show has a gay character, freely advocating that there is some gay cabal out to spread homosexuality, and when a moderate Catholic intervenes they’re labeled a cafeteria Catholic, or worse an out and out fraud who isn’t a real Catholic at all.
Click to expand...
Yeah, people can be a bit dramatic sometimes. But most people, I feel, are fair-headed. As is true in all things, it’s a vocal minority that yells the loudest.
 
Only one people was consistent in using degrading language and that was Setter. Maybe Erik, but aside from that it was mostly fine except for a slip or two in a few posters posts. And that was 12 years ago too…
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top