Cardinal Zen on China: 'There is Nothing More to do Other Than Prayer'

[MNathaniel]

Cardinal Zen on China: ‘There is Nothing More to Do Other Than Prayer’

Cardinal Zen has criticized the lack of transparency over the Vatican’s handling of China.

www.ncregister.com

Heartbreaking.

Seeing the continued delay from the Vatican, the conflicts in Hong Kong and the continued persecution in China, the Register asked Cardinal Zen what the Western world could do to aid him.

“Nothing. I’ve done more than I can, and there is nothing more to do other than prayer,” said the cardinal. “If tomorrow, the Vatican chooses this bishop, blessed by Beijing — if they appoint this bad bishop for Hong Kong, my job is finished. I will choose to disappear.”

Continued Cardinal Zen, “My last act of protest will be to do just that, to now disappear with everyone knowing why. I put this in my last will and testament — that my bones shall not be placed in the cathedral, I do not want to be buried with such men. I will be buried in a simple cemetery with what remains of the faithful people of God.”

Please read the article, and pray for poor Cardinal Zen. He has carried a hard burden and done his best to advocate for the poor suffering people of China. May his efforts yet yield fruit. And one way or another may God console and bless him.

 

[Motherwit]

Cardinal Zen doesn’t answer the Registers question about what the solution would be. How should the Vatican proceed towards a free Church in China?

 

[MNathaniel]

Cardinal Zen doesn’t answer the Registers question about what the solution would be. How should the Vatican proceed towards a free Church in China?

I reckon the reason he’s no longer able to answer questions about a ‘new’ solution, is that he’s already repeatedly approached the Vatican with pleas and advisements, and they’ve seemingly been rebuffed and rejected so he now has nothing ‘new’ to say. (Have you been keeping up with the story over the last couple years? It might be a lot to backtrack over in this thread, but maybe this is indeed the place to do it.)

So as Cardinal Zen says, I don’t know what we can do now besides pray.

Personally my private opinion is that Cardinal Zen is correct that the ‘gradualist’ approach the Vatican has chosen is a counter-productive political strategy for dealing with an aggressively anti-religious communist party that will solicit surrender from others while never actualizing a true compromise itself. And in the meantime much harm is done to the souls of devout faithful forced to compromise their own consciences (or risk material persecution worsened by Vatican complicity which gives the gov’t more leeway to persecute) in trying to navigate this horrific situation. So I personally hope the Vatican will fully abandon this gradualist strategy and encourage the hearts and minds of the loyal underground Church in China again, rather than discourage the hearts and minds of the devout Chinese by pressuring them to conform to government programs they have very good reasons to distrust. I hope the Vatican will change course entirely and refuse to renew the Sino-Vatican Deal this month. I believe the political side of life is much less important than the spiritual side of life, and I am persuaded by Cardinal Zen that this deal harms the spiritual life of the devout Chinese, in a way that artificially improving an appearance of political peace (though barely even an appearance of peace, even on the surface) is simply not worth.

As Cardinal Zen points out, at this point the Vatican is perceived by many Chinese as engaging in mere political appeasement, as not listening to the people, and as actually complicit in unjust demands the government makes of the people (which now uses the Sino-Vatican Deal to claim the gov’t demands must be obeyed ‘In the name of the Pope’). Good evidence seems to suggest that religious persecution is worsening in China, not improving – and I honestly think one would have to be blindly committed to an ideological belief in political gradualism, to not see at least the possibility that this particular case is asymptotic. Or one would have to be a materialist and believe it’s better to be materially safe than spiritually well.

So that’s what I think, as a single fallible human being. We don’t have access to a full solution yet, but in the meantime listening to the Chinese people and encouraging their hearts, rather than stomping on their hearts alongside gov’t boots, would be a minimum starting point.

 

[Pattylt]

I’m probably asking a question that can’t really be summed up easily but…

I know the government is persecuting the Catholics there. I understand that there is an underground church and a “legal” one. What, in general, is the legal one doing or not doing that requires the faithful Catholics to go underground?

One or two examples is sufficient!

 

[Inbonum]

@Pattylt
Legal one is cooperating with communists.
Communists hate religion and see it as biggest threat to their utopia of communism beauty.
Legal Church in China is actually communistic Church which has their own rule - not to be royal to Christ, to Pope but to communists in every segment - then catholicisms is just coverage and not authentic. Communists are wolves in lambskin.
It is not allowed for catholics to be a members of communistic party.

I hope I helped.

 

[Pattylt]

@Pattylt
Legal one is cooperating with communists.
Communists hate religion and see it as biggest threat to their utopia of communism beauty.
Legal Church in China is actually communistic Church which has their own rule - not to be royal to Christ, to Pope but to communists in every segment - then catholicisms is just coverage and not authentic. Communists are wolves in lambskin.
It is not allowed for catholics to be a members of communistic party.

I hope I helped.

So, am I to understand that they don’t perform the Mass? Or, do they perform a modified Mass that includes their leaders to be prayed to. Is Jesus and His teachings missing or just corrupted?

Is anyone that is thought to be Catholic excluded from government or just those suspected as being in the underground church?

I guess I’m asking for specific things going on that is unacceptable?

 

[Inbonum]

I am mostly writing this from perspective of someone living in ex communistic state (communists are behaving the same anywhere in world basically) so maybe I won’t answer 100% correct for China but from what I know about their situation.

They do perform Mass but that Mass should never criticise government, to say anything that would show communism in any bad light.
Their leaders aren’t included or venerated as some saints, like they would be put on their place but are very welcomed. Legal Church in China is servant of communism. Legal Catholics - priests and bishops cooperate with government, they aren’t loyal to faithful people and try to mix religion with antitheistic regime.

Some teachings of Jesus are corrupted or removed. Communists try to change truth or try to destroy it.
Few days ago there was news about communists in China changing something from Gospels and showing Jesus as being just sinful human - it was taught in schools. They are mocking Christianity and trying to show it in disordered way to children and young people. Children are our future and it is easier to destroy little ones.

Is anyone that is thought to be Catholic excluded from government or just those suspected as being in the underground church?

I think it’s impossible to be in Chinese gov as authentic Catholic. If they don’t punish him or kill him immediately they would first try to use him for their purposes and blackmail him later. It depends on his position but I really don’t believe there is any in government.
When they take oath they serve communism and atheism in a way of denying God and doing everything contrary to God’s law. The point is that by becoming a communist you exclude yourself from the Church / Christianity so any communist who represent himself as Catholic is actually part of that Legal Church.
Those who would be part of government and suspected to be part of underground Church would probably be not just excluded but heavily punished with their family - if not killed.
Communists don’t like when they don’t have control over people and underground Church is big threaten in their eyes.

 

[Motherwit]

The Vatican-China agreement on the appointment of bishops was a pastoral, not political agreement, that also had been approved by Pope Benedict XVI, the Vatican Secretary of State said.

Every pope, from St Paul VI to Pope Francis, has tried to resolve what Pope Benedict described as a difficult situation “of misunderstandings and incomprehension” that did not benefit “either the Chinese authorities nor the Catholic Church in China,” Cardinal Pietro Parolin said, according to Vatican News on 3 October.

Pope Benedict himself, the cardinal said, approved “the draft agreement on the appointment of bishops in China,” which was signed in 2018 by the Holy See and Chinese officials and is due for renewal at the end of October.

The cardinal was speaking at a conference in Milan, marking the 150th anniversary of the presence of missionaries of the Pontifical Institute for Foreign Missions in China.

Vatican officials repeatedly have said that the agreement with China deals only with the appointment of bishops, a question essential for the unity and survival of the Catholic Church in the country.

https://www.catholicweekly.com.au/pope-benedict-approved-draft-china-agreement-parolin/

 

[Duke12VonFalkenburg]

Why does China get a pass but yet the Church led by by St. John Paul II was a strong enemy of the Soviet Union? The only difference between the Soviets and China is that China embraced capitalism to make money. Now with that money they are able to buy so much to keep themselves in power.

 

[MNathaniel]

Hi Patty,

As you say it’s really hard to sum up. I’ve started and stopped on my posts here so much as to write a near-essay on the topic and just get overwhelmed and end up posting nothing at all. I’m also really busy with other things right now and spending less time on CAF in general, which is bad timing.

Until I have time to post more I might suggest scanning a timeline like this for a basic backdrop of Catholicism’s history in China (especially Mao and post-Mao)?

The Catholic Church in China: Historical context and the current situation – Catholic World Report

And I’ll note that Post- Sino-Vatican Deal, many pre-existing concerns for Chinese Catholics haven’t just gone away. As even supporters of the deal note (see Motherwit’s comment): "

Vatican officials repeatedly have said that the agreement with China deals only with the appointment of bishops

(emphasis mine). So the deal doesn’t address other critical issues. And in the meantime my understanding is, as per Cardinal Zen and others, that the deal has not been effective at achieving even the intended goal about the bishops. So the gradualism is still just hopeful, there, that maybe more progress will be made on even that one isolated topic after the deal is renewed for a second commitment.

And all this is against a backdrop of, as @Inbonum notes, the communist party that rules China today being not even coy about their intentions towards religion. They see religion as unacceptably competitive with the totalizing political power they think it appropriate for the state to exercise (especially when that religion has an authoritative hierarchy whose head presides from outside their country), and seem to have adopted the position that where they can’t (yet) stamp religion out entirely, they’ll hollow it out as best they can to insert their political goals into its shell, thereby repurposing religion to serve their political party. Attempting to make religion harmless (to their political program) and if anything another tool for them, basically.

You asked for recent examples and Inbonum alluded to some, which I’d like to find you links for right now but just don’t have the time (maybe later). There are stories here and there across the last couple years that have filled me with horror, personally; maybe CNA or, I think one of my resources ended up being a Chinese one actually, I’ll have to check links I’ve discussed with friends to see…

 

[MNathaniel]

The Vatican-China agreement on the appointment of bishops was a pastoral, not political agreement, that also had been approved by Pope Benedict XVI, the Vatican Secretary of State said.

Every pope, from St Paul VI to Pope Francis, has tried to resolve what Pope Benedict described as a difficult situation “of misunderstandings and incomprehension” that did not benefit “either the Chinese authorities nor the Catholic Church in China,” Cardinal Pietro Parolin said, according to Vatican News on 3 October.

Pope Benedict himself, the cardinal said, approved “the draft agreement on the appointment of bishops in China,” which was signed in 2018 by the Holy See and Chinese officials and is due for renewal at the end of October.

It sounds like you think listing persons involved in early drafts (or early desires) of what improving-the-situation might look like, should make us think the Sino-Vatican Deal specifically is a good, effective, productive piece of paperwork?

Could you explain a bit more about why you think it’s relevant that previous popes also wanted to try to improve the situation with China? (We all, of course, want to improve the situation in China. The debated question is how.)

Personally I don’t care if St. Peter himself wrote the first draft of this deal. I care about its final implementation and effectiveness.

So I’m not sure what the point is of talking about anything other than that (actual implementation and effectiveness of any specific action taken with China). If you think something else matters more than actual implementation and actual impact, could you explain why?

 

[MNathaniel]

I guess I’m asking for specific things going on that is unacceptable?

Real quick (though sort of tangential), here are a couple scene-setting stories out of China, in terms of concrete example of, in this case, the education-system context faced by religious believers in China (so note the particular focus on indoctrinating children into the political program – particularly disturbing if you read to the end of the first article, where a mother recounts her son coming home from school and threatening to stab her with a knife while she sleeps if she doesn’t renounce her religion):

https://bitterwinter.org/chinas-schools-pledge-to-do-away-with-religion/

https://www.ucanews.com/news/chinese-catholics-angry-over-book-claiming-jesus-killed-sinner/89619#

This latter story is about an apparently government-run school which has created a textbook in which students are taught a false and opposite story than what Scripture teaches (specifically, the government textbook changes Jesus forgiving the adulteress, to Jesus personally stoning the adulteress to death to respect the law of his time and place. The obvious rationale behind this being that this is how the Chinese government wants Christians (and all religious people) to approach their religion: as subject in all things, even matters of killing, to the laws of the communist ruling party of China. Not to mention that they put words into Jesus’ mouth that he did not say (“I too am a sinner”), which is in itself a hideous misrepresentation of Christianity, even if they were not portraying him as unforgiving executioner also in this story.

Perhaps I’ll allow Cardinal Zen’s words to close here. He is far closer to this than any of us, and yes, closer indeed than those who live in the Vatican in the West (and who apparently, according to Cardinal Zen, express a belief that: “a bad agreement is better than no agreement” – a sentiment bare minimum open to deep and profound disagreement):

https://www.ucanews.com/news/cardinal-zen-for-the-love-of-truth-i-will-not-remain-silent/89832

 

[Motherwit]

It sounds like you think listing persons involved in early drafts (or early desires) of what improving-the-situation might look like, should make us think the Sino-Vatican Deal specifically is a good, effective, productive piece of paperwork?

Could you explain a bit more about why you think it’s relevant that previous popes also wanted to try to improve the situation with China? (We all, of course, want to improve the situation in China. The debated question is how.)

It demonstrates that this is not a novelty of Pope Francis but a dream of the previous Popes also.

Personally I don’t care if St. Peter himself wrote the first draft of this deal. I care about its final implementation and effectiveness.

So I’m not sure what the point is of talking about anything other than that (actual implementation and effectiveness of any specific action taken with China). If you think something else matters more than actual implementation and actual impact, could you explain why?

The relationship has barely begun so it’s early days to see the effect. The time came to start doing something towards freeing the underground Church. I agree with Pope Francis that dialogue is a good start in evangelizing.

 

[MNathaniel]

It demonstrates that this is not a novelty of Pope Francis but a dream of the previous Popes also.

Didn’t suggest anything about “Novelty of Pope Francis”.

Incidentally if you review Cardinal Zen’s recent October words (I linked to just above, in my response to Patty) you’ll see he actually comments that much of what is taking place with China is contrary to what Pope Benedict actually wanted – and even contrary to what Pope Francis wants! Cardinal Zen discusses words both popes have used, regarding this. Rather Cardinal Zen states his belief that it is Parolin’s wants that are being pushed through. Cardinal Zen’s words about this are worth reading, in my view.

The relationship has barely begun so it’s early days to see the effect. The time came to start doing something towards freeing the underground Church. I agree with Pope Francis that dialogue is a good start in evangelizing.

Dialogue is awesome.

That’s the opposite, I’d argue, of what the Sino-Vatican Deal enables. Seeing as how its actual effect seems to be primarily to shut down and silence (meaningful) dialogue.

“Doing something” is good if we’re doing something good. Doing something bad (e.g. tying our own hands and scandalizing the vulnerable) is worse than doing nothing.

 

[JimG]

It should be noted that the text of this agreement is still secret and has never been published or made public.
The underground Church continues to be persecuted.

 

[ramartensjr]

The chief architect of this deal was the disgraced ex-Cardinal McCarrick, who caved to the Communists so as to puff himself up after being “put on ice” by Pope Benedict. (I don’t believe for one second that Benedict would have approved the particulars of THIS agreement.)

McCarrick misled Pope Francis. The result is the easily forseen “fruit of the poisoned tree”.