Care of elders

[DL82]

I am originally from Scotland, currently living in London and soon to be emigrating to the USA to marry my fiancee.

I am shocked and appalled by the way Americans almost always seem to put their elderly relatives in retirement homes when they get too old to look after themselves, rather than looking after them themselves, even if they have large families and support networks.

Growing up, my dad had to put my grandma, who was in the advanced stages of Alzheimers disease, into a nursing home, because my mother was battling with cancer and he was her only child. I understand this, but it should be an exception, not a norm. The majority of the people in the nursing home were there because they had no family of their own, and it was embarrassing to go and visit because we were there, and we could have looked after her. I honestly believe if I were in the same situation I would do things differently, even if it meant losing my job and my children having to skip school and be deprived of the innocence of their childhoods.

Do Catholics take seriously the commandment to honour their father and mother?

There is plenty on here about support for married couples and children. What support does the Church provide for those who are looking after elders? I guess this is particularly aimed at the Americans on here, as it is America’s culture of ignoring their elders that I am so shocked by and worried about entering into.

 

[gmarie21]

While there are some who ignore their aging parents, I would disagree with you that that is the norm. There are also an abundance of senior living communities (NOT what you think of as retirement homes) for those who are elderly and independent. Many in my family who were older and no longer desired to stay in their homes chose to move into one of these communities. Their children would still take them to doctor appointments and such as well as visit them, but they liked having others like them to participate in activities on the premise. Also, if one is in a nursing home it DOESN’T mean they are not being cared for by their children. My bio-aunt takes care of my bio-grandmother and is with her for every dr. appointment and every free moment she has, but my bio-grandmother is in a nursing home. Not all nursing homes are created the same. I come from a family that has even cared for the elderly aunts who were always single and childless.

 

[LSK]

I cannot speak for all Catholics living in the United States. I can only speak for me and my family and our experience.

When my father’s wife died he was left with her 89 year old mother to care for - she was not in good health and either was he. I asked him to move closer to us so that I could help him. I was working full time, going to school full time, involved in my 12 step program full time - let’s face it, I was living life to the fullest.

I could not do everything for my Dad and for Velva (his mother-in-law). What I did was I chased down every program that he or she could possibly qualify for - I figured, this man is a WWII vet, has worked all his life and there has to be ways to offset the financial burden of caring for Velva while still trying to earn a living so that he can make housepayments and put food on the table. I discovered all these little programs that would throw some money - small amounts - at him to help him out. I went to Catholic Charities in our area and found a list of men and women who would hire out to help the elderly in their homes for “x” number of dollars every week. Eventually, I had someone who was coming in during the work-week for 25 hrs to take care of Velva. I was going by Dad’s every night on the way home from work to make sure everyone was ok and I was cleaning his house and doing laundry there every weekend.

My mother - the woman he had left his late wife for - helped me every weekend. Why? Because she is a Catholic…she had put aside any bitterness or anger towards my father and raised his children in the Faith. She felt that, on weekends, she was not only doing God’s work but she was helping out her busy daughter.

My father died three years ago about 15 days after open heart surgery (this Sunday will be the 3rd anniversary of his death). Ten days before he died he partook of the Sacrament of Reconcilliation and he took communion for the first time in 45 years.

I was not going to be able to care for Velva. My mother was not going to be able to care for Velva. My mother, while in good health, was 82 years old at the time. Neither of us qualified for any of the programs I had found for my father. HOWEVER, Velva has relatives in another part of the United States. I found them, and discovered that there was a wonderful nursing home facility in the small New Mexico town in which they lived that could take her - and because it was in a small town in New Mexico her railroad pension would cover the cost. I flew her, on my own, to the small town, delivered her to her family and settled her in to her facility.

Six months later she died, after having spent the six months there getting to know all the relatives she had left behind or had never met when she and her husband moved so many years before to California.

I think it is admirable that you would be willing to lose your job, maybe become homeless or sacrifice your children’s lives or education in order to take care of an elderly family member. I think it is courageous to put your pride aside and say, “What would be best for the entire family?” and then go forward from there.

Again, I cannot speak for all Catholics in the United States; however, I do not think I acted in a heroic manner…somehow I think I was only living up to the Catholic way of life taught to me by my mother.

 

[ack]

Hi DL82,

When your dad gets old and needs extra care, what are you planning on doing?

Just curious.

I am originally from Scotland, currently living in London and soon to be emigrating to the USA to marry my fiancee.

I am shocked and appalled by the way Americans almost always seem to put their elderly relatives in retirement homes when they get too old to look after themselves, rather than looking after them themselves, even if they have large families and support networks.

Growing up, my dad had to put my grandma, who was in the advanced stages of Alzheimers disease, into a nursing home, because my mother was battling with cancer and he was her only child. I understand this, but it should be an exception, not a norm. The majority of the people in the nursing home were there because they had no family of their own, and it was embarrassing to go and visit because we were there, and we could have looked after her. I honestly believe if I were in the same situation I would do things differently, even if it meant losing my job and my children having to skip school and be deprived of the innocence of their childhoods.

Do Catholics take seriously the commandment to honour their father and mother?

There is plenty on here about support for married couples and children. What support does the Church provide for those who are looking after elders? I guess this is particularly aimed at the Americans on here, as it is America’s culture of ignoring their elders that I am so shocked by and worried about entering into.

 

[1ke]

I am shocked and appalled by the way Americans almost always seem to put their elderly relatives in retirement homes when they get too old to look after themselves, rather than looking after them themselves, even if they have large families and support networks.

On what do you base this assessment? Do you have anything of substance that shows this to be true, or is this an idea you have?

I personally don’t know anyone who has placed parents in a nursing home unless it was required for their care-- and only then as a last resort. In fact, I only have one friend whose mother had to place her father in a full-care facility due to advanced Alzheimers. Other than her, I don’t know anyone who’s had a part in putting their parents in a nursing home, period.

I understand this, but it should be an exception, not a norm.

What makes you think it is the norm?

The majority of the people in the nursing home were there because they had no family of their own, and it was embarrassing to go and visit because we were there, and we could have looked after her.

Perhaps you could have, but most people in advanced stages of Alzheimers need full time care, and sometimes a skilled nursing facility is required. Obtaining the best care for your family members is not something to be ashamed of.

I honestly believe if I were in the same situation I would do things differently, even if it meant losing my job and my children having to skip school and be deprived of the innocence of their childhoods.

That’s your choice, but it doesn’t seem a rational one. Losing your job would mean not having any income with which to care for your parent-- sort of defeats the purpose of in-home care.

Do Catholics take seriously the commandment to honour their father and mother?

Yes

What support does the Church provide for those who are looking after elders?

I would say that depends on the diocese and parish.

I guess this is particularly aimed at the Americans on here, as it is America’s culture of ignoring their elders that I am so shocked by and worried about entering into.

Without some explanation as to where you have gotten this idea, we are really at a loss to respond to you.

 

[lizaanne]

I also can only speak for my family.

My paternal uncle has, literally, given up his entire adult life to care for his mother in their home. After my grandfather died in 1989, my uncle left his job to stay home with his mother. At the time she was not ill, but living in a very poor area of Detroit, he did not feel right leaving her home during the day alone. Eventually she became quite ill with dementia, and eventually a broken hip. She has, her entire life, always refused medical treatment of any kind. Obviously the broken hip meant surgery, but afterward she refused any sort of therapy and is now in a wheel chair. She turned 90 in August, and is wheelchair bound, incontinent, and has lost her mind to dementia. He refuses to put her in a home, or to let anyone help him. He is in his 50’s, has never married, never had a relationship. He has given up everything to care for her. They live off her pension, his savings, and social security.

My maternal aunt and her husband nursed to their final days, both of my uncle’s parents in their home. Both died of cancer. And were only put in hospital days before they died. They turned the gorgeous livingroom of their home into a hospital room. They put work and family on hold, and eventually when they had both passed - within 5 years of each other, my aunt became a nurse.

I agree - some people do place their family in homes as you describe.
But I am not prepared to make judgment on those situations I know absolutely nothing about. I can only speak for me and mine, and we have never considered our family members to be disposable.

~Liza

 

[DL82]

Hi DL82,

When your dad gets old and needs extra care, what are you planning on doing?

Just curious.

That’s a good question.

It’s something I will need to discuss with my wife and my dad when the situation arises. I guess one of us will have to move - either I will have to separate from my wife for a while to go back to Scotland to take care of him, or we will both have to move, or he can come across to America assuming I have my citizenship by then. It would be a difficult situation, and would depend on my wife’s family’s needs too.

I guess I just feel that there is too much of an emphasis in today’s society on the idea that parents exist for the benefit of their children, not the other way around. While of course it is important that we nurture and encourage and bring up our children well, the commandment does not say “honour your children” but “honour your father and mother”. I know, for example, that one of the reasons my dad put my grandma in a home was that I got scared by having this old lady around who didn’t know who or where she was, and who would do crazy and dangerous things without realising. Even though I was only 6, and below the age of reason, I still feel guilty for not having done more to help and support her. I also slightly resent that my dad did more to protect me from her than to encourage me to help her.

I think there’s much to be said for a society that respects its’ elders above all else, and where the young listen to the old and the old to the older. So much of the liberalism of the last 50 years can be put down to the older generation listening to (or being made to listen to) the arrogant and headstrong younger generation. Indeed the whole project of modernism from the schisms of the Reformation, through the Enlightenment, the fall of the traditional orders and estates of Christian civilization, and the brutal revolutions of the 19th and 20th centuries can be put down to people believing that the new is better than the old, and that experience is a dead-weight to progress rather than an anchor of faith and a blessing from our forefathers.

I guess I can only speak for the family that I’m marrying into, most of whom are not Catholic, and who tend to take this approach. According to my fiancee and other Americans I’ve spoken to, it’s normal to treat older people this way, at the very least to patronise them rather than respect their wisdom.

“Stand at the crossroads and look
ask for the ancient paths
ask where the good way lies
and walk in it
and find rest for your souls” Jeremiah 6:16

 

[dawgfan]

I am shocked and appalled by the way Americans almost always seem to put their elderly relatives in retirement homes when they get too old to look after themselves, rather than looking after them themselves, even if they have large families and support networks.

Do Catholics take seriously the commandment to honour their father and mother?

I just moved back to my grandfather’s house in January to help him and my grandmother (she died in February). They were in effect my parents since they raised me since childhood.

Does this break your broad generalization of Americans?

 

[lizaanne]

According to my fiancee and other Americans I’ve spoken to, it’s normal to treat older people this way, at the very least to patronise them rather than respect their wisdom.

I certainly hope you are able to broaden your acquaintances when you arrive here. If I or anyone in my family behaved that way toward our elders we’d be smacked down in a heartbeat. And my cousins and I are all grown and in our 30’s-40’s! That would not stop our parents for putting us in our place. Our grandparents have always been the crowning glory of our family. We would even joke about how my grandpa would “hold court” with all the youngsters when we were little, because we all wanted to be around him.

~Liza

 

[DL82]

I just moved back to my grandfather’s house in January to help him and my grandmother (she died in February). They were in effect my parents since they raised me since childhood.

Does this break your broad generalization of Americans?

A HUGE APOLOGY TO ALL THOSE WHO HAVE JUST POSTED - I am guilty of generalising far too much about Americans based on the few I have met. I am deeply sorry and did not mean to offend. My generalisation was based on a first impression.

To be honest, London is just as bad, if not worse.

I guess my problem is that America is a society founded on a revolution, thus, by definition, it is forward-looking and focussed on children first and then elders, whereas Scotland, which is ageing and backward-looking in many ways, has more of a focus on its’ elders, sometimes to the detriment of future generations. That’s why so many of our young (myself included) leave for England and America, and always have. I guess a part of this is just general homesickness and guilt at having abandoned my own roots.

I apologise if I took that out on Americans in general. That was not my intention.

 

[dawgfan]

No offense taken

— from someone whose ancestors left Scotland 300 years ago.

 

[duskyjewel]

I honestly believe if I were in the same situation I would do things differently, even if it meant losing my job and my children having to skip school and be deprived of the innocence of their childhoods.

DL82,

While I share your outrage at the way SOME people neglect their elders, I cannot share your sentiment here. Depriving my children of the education they need for their future is just as immoral as depriving my elders of the care they need. (The innocence thing is different. I think kids are exposed to much they shouldn’t be these days, and “protected” from many things they should see.)

When God gifted us with these five little souls (one still hitchhiking as we speak) He also sent along the obligation to do the best we can for them. In this time, and this place, that means they need a good education, both in the academic sense and in the religious sense. If they are ever to be participating, useful citizens, they need at least a basic education. It would be wrong of us to deprive them of that. And their grandparents would never want us to do that. We also have to feed them, clothe them, and provide reasonable medical care. That means having a job. We would have to find a way to balance these needs.

I think if people are very responsible in checking out a nursing home, and choose one close by so that they can visit regularly, and then DO visit and take their elder for outings and family gatherings, and monitor their care rigorously to make sure there are no lacks or abuses going on, then they are fulfulling their obligation. The people I hate are the ones who dump granny in a home, and then never go back until like 2 years later, find out the place is horrible, and then want to sue. Well, where the heck were you all that time? You let granny suffer for 2 years and couldn’t be bothered even to visit? When does she get to sue you?!

$0.02

 

[DL82]

A lot of people here disagreeing with my view on elders being more important than children.

What I’m saying is, there are many more traditional parts of the world where it is normal and expected of a child, sometimes as young as 7 or 8, to look after sick or ailing parents/grandparents. What can we possibly teach our children that is more important than caring for their families? The family is the basic unit of the Church, the first place where we live out the commandment to love our neighbour as ourselves.

I resent the fact that I was raised by a father who thought my grades at school were more important than that. I have a First Class degree from one of the top universities in the UK, but would trade that in an instant for having been able to care for my own mother and grandmother in their hour of need.

IMHO there is a link between selfishness, forward-thinking, liberalism and general education. Our spiritual, political and scientific leaders need book learning. The rest of the population needs to learn to bear with the station which God has dealt them in life and learn how to love one another and respect their elders and betters. This is the stuff of tradition. If education can be added to virtue, well and good, but if we sacrifice virtue and tradition for education and wealth, we are in grave danger indeed.

 

[gmarie21]

A lot of people here disagreeing with my view on elders being more important than children.

What I’m saying is, there are many more traditional parts of the world where it is normal and expected of a child, sometimes as young as 7 or 8, to look after sick or ailing parents/grandparents. What can we possibly teach our children that is more important than caring for their families? The family is the basic unit of the Church, the first place where we live out the commandment to love our neighbour as ourselves.

I resent the fact that I was raised by a father who thought my grades at school were more important than that. I have a First Class degree from one of the top universities in the UK, but would trade that in an instant for having been able to care for my own mother and grandmother in their hour of need.

IMHO there is a link between selfishness, forward-thinking, liberalism and general education. Our spiritual, political and scientific leaders need book learning. The rest of the population needs to learn to bear with the station which God has dealt them in life and learn how to love one another and respect their elders and betters. This is the stuff of tradition. If education can be added to virtue, well and good, but if we sacrifice virtue and tradition for education and wealth, we are in grave danger indeed.

Without education one would HAVE to trust a phsician without question or knowing to get a second opinion. While I admire your commitment, your arguement is seriously flawed. By the way, with sucj a strong view, why are you mrrying someone with an opposite view and possibly jepordizing your chance to care for your father in the future?

 

[1ke]

I guess I can only speak for the family that I’m marrying into, most of whom are not Catholic, and who tend to take this approach. According to my fiancee and other Americans I’ve spoken to, it’s normal to treat older people this way, at the very least to patronise them rather than respect their wisdom.

You’ve been hanging around with the wrong kind of people.

That said, at least we don’t kill them-- as in Holland and Switzerland.

 

[ack]

It’s admirable that you would move to care for him. I hope that you’ve discussed this with your future wife, and that she’s okay with it.

That’s a good question.

It’s something I will need to discuss with my wife and my dad when the situation arises. I guess one of us will have to move - either I will have to separate from my wife for a while to go back to Scotland to take care of him, or we will both have to move, or he can come across to America assuming I have my citizenship by then. It would be a difficult situation, and would depend on my wife’s family’s needs too.

I guess I just feel that there is too much of an emphasis in today’s society on the idea that parents exist for the benefit of their children, not the other way around. While of course it is important that we nurture and encourage and bring up our children well, the commandment does not say “honour your children” but “honour your father and mother”. I know, for example, that one of the reasons my dad put my grandma in a home was that I got scared by having this old lady around who didn’t know who or where she was, and who would do crazy and dangerous things without realising. Even though I was only 6, and below the age of reason, I still feel guilty for not having done more to help and support her. I also slightly resent that my dad did more to protect me from her than to encourage me to help her.

I think there’s much to be said for a society that respects its’ elders above all else, and where the young listen to the old and the old to the older. So much of the liberalism of the last 50 years can be put down to the older generation listening to (or being made to listen to) the arrogant and headstrong younger generation. Indeed the whole project of modernism from the schisms of the Reformation, through the Enlightenment, the fall of the traditional orders and estates of Christian civilization, and the brutal revolutions of the 19th and 20th centuries can be put down to people believing that the new is better than the old, and that experience is a dead-weight to progress rather than an anchor of faith and a blessing from our forefathers.

I guess I can only speak for the family that I’m marrying into, most of whom are not Catholic, and who tend to take this approach. According to my fiancee and other Americans I’ve spoken to, it’s normal to treat older people this way, at the very least to patronise them rather than respect their wisdom.

“Stand at the crossroads and look
ask for the ancient paths
ask where the good way lies
and walk in it
and find rest for your souls” Jeremiah 6:16

 

[DL82]

Without education one would HAVE to trust a phsician without question or knowing to get a second opinion. While I admire your commitment, your arguement is seriously flawed. By the way, with sucj a strong view, why are you mrrying someone with an opposite view and possibly jepordizing your chance to care for your father in the future?

my fiancee doesn’t have an opposite view, it’s just that much of her family does.

 

[Anne1964]

I can only speak for my family. We have never put anyone in a nursing home. When I was 11 my uncle had three heart attacks in a one-week period. He survived but my mother was told he would need round-the-clock care. My uncle, who was brain-damaged, lived with my grandmother.

My mother asked my father to allow my grandmother and uncle to move in with us. We had just moved into a larger house and had room for them. My father said no. So my mother packed her things and she and I moved into a rental house with my uncle and grandmother for a year. I saw my father on weekends. It was a horrible year for everyone, but my mother showed me the importance of caring for family members.

At the end of a year my father relented and everyone moved into the new house. My uncle lived another six months and my grandmother actually outlived my father.

Due to this experience, when my husband and I became serious about marriage I let him know in no uncertain terms that if my mother or aunt ever needed me to help take care of them that I was going to do so.

After 3 1/2 years of marriage, it happened this year. My aunt was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and my mother needed help taking care of her. I moved in with my mother to help care for my aunt and my husband also helped to care for her.

Now that my aunt is gone, my mother will be moving in with my husband and I. Our 11 year old niece also lives with us.

Is this the plan my husband and I had for our marriage? No, it isn’t, but family comes first. He knows I would do the same for his parents.

 

[Anne1964]

I can only speak for my family. We have never put anyone in a nursing home. When I was 11 my uncle had three heart attacks in a one-week period. He survived but my mother was told he would need round-the-clock care. My uncle, who was brain-damaged, lived with my grandmother.

My mother asked my father to allow my grandmother and uncle to move in with us. We had just moved into a larger house and had room for them. My father said no. So my mother packed her things and she and I moved into a rental house with my uncle and grandmother for a year. I saw my father on weekends. It was a horrible year for everyone, but my mother showed me the importance of caring for family members.

At the end of a year my father relented and everyone moved into the new house. My uncle lived another six months and my grandmother actually outlived my father.

Due to this experience, when my husband and I became serious about marriage I let him know in no uncertain terms that if my mother or aunt ever needed me to help take care of them that I was going to do so.

After 3 1/2 years of marriage, it happened this year. My aunt was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and my mother needed help taking care of her. I moved in with my mother to help care for my aunt and my husband also helped to care for her.

Now that my aunt is gone, my mother will be moving in with my husband and I. Our 11 year old niece also lives with us.

Is this the plan my husband and I had for our marriage? No, it isn’t, but family comes first. He knows I would do the same for his parents.

 

[OldAgeGuru]

I can see both sides of this.

I’m a geriatric case manager/social worker. My job is to keep people in their own homes for as long as is safe, by providing them with extra supports such as homemaking, laundry services, grocery shopping, transportation, help with bathing, med reminders etc. However, there comes a point, where many people become to unsafe to live at home alone any more. Even living with a family member isn’t safe. Someone who has demetia may get up in the middle of the night and turn the stove on and set fire to the house, or open up the door and walk right out in the middle of the night in a Boston winter. It’s unfair and unreasonable to ask people to give up sleeping to care for a parent/family member.

There are also dignity issues involved with caring for an aging parent. It’s embarassing for both parties to change diapers of the parent. It’s embarassing for a mother to have to be bathed by her adult son.

Or perhaps there are issues with weight. The elder might be obese, and the child cannot help with transferring the elder into and out of bed, a chair, a toilet, a shower.

Perhaps there are other issues at play. Perhaps the elder is a diabetic and has chronic pressure/ulceritic sores that need constant attention so they do not become gangrenous.

Sometimes the elder does not want to have their child care for them because they don’t want to be a burden.

Or my favorite. are what we like to call the FUFD’s which is ____ up family dynamics. Perhaps dad was a violent alcoholic. Maybe mom was an abusive psycopath. The children may not want to care for a parent who has only increased their bad tempers with demenita. Or the opposite. Maybe the kids are alcoholics or neglectful, is that an appropriate situation for the elder/

When people are still living at home they often to get help from family and friends.

That said, most states have rules about who can be placed in a nursing home. They have to meet certain functional impairment levels to be placed in a facility. It’s too expensive to have so many elders in a nursing home at 3-5 grand a month.