Careers and Mothers

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Hi all. Please feel free to write your response.

I have been talking to a few women who are planning on teaching religion at the church, high school and college level. They all feel strongly called to minister to others through education. We are all in agreement on NFP and do not believe contraception is moral. NFP, moreover, and responsible parenthood, calls for us to consider prayerfully our circumstances–our obligations to God, family, etc.

My curiosity revolves around these questions: If someone feels called to serve God in a particular work, and also feels called to motherhood, is it moral to get married and wait to have kids until a job is secured? Can a couple get married, and of course in sexual act be open to life, but intend to have kids a while later so that the mother can finish her schooling?

Someone once posted that money cannot be an issue. I completely can see how that seems like a poor reason, as America is consumer-driven and we are overly negligent of what really constitutes necessity. However, I do believe this disparaging comment should not exclude the good found in and wisdom of having financial stability. It is an ideal to strive after. I would be upset if I had a child and could not afford to take them to the doctor because of an illness. I don’t know why so many believe this is not trust in God. He asks us to be stewards, and yes, I believe it is courageous of couples to trust in God, and I do not think couples who try to secure a future are saying that they trust God any less. I just think they are trying their best to respect the responsibility and gift God has blessed them with.

Can anyone speak of Catholics who are faithful but who waited to have children? I know of many good faithful Catholics who have done so.

It is sad when Catholics are tempted to feel sorry for other Catholics when they see they do not have as many children. I hope that we are not so quick to judge, as there are couples, althought not as common, who have serious issues for why they do not have more children.
 
I think the church teaches that couples can put off having children for a serious reason. Juggling college and kids is a difficult, if not impossible, thing, unless you plan to graduate the same time that baby you are carrying does. 😃

Seriously. I do not see that a wife is obligated to give birth to her first child 9 months after the wedding.

A well educated mother is a very important asset for a family to have. It will have an clear and positive effect on her ability to home-school her children. Later, when the children are old enough teaching RE is more realistic again because of her better education.

In short, I can see where delaying the birth of your children until the wife has finished her education qualifies as a legitimate “serious” reason.

With that in mind, while I will never tell anyone how to live, I think it is always best the the mother stay home with her children whenever that is possible.
 
We waited nearly 5 years for our 1st.

Both of us were out of school, on a “career track”, but neither settled or established in our career. Additionally we weren’t ready for children - too immature, still too confused about being married… just couldn’t handle what a baby would throw into the mix at the time.

It was weird, but almost simultaneously we came to the conclusion that “It’s time”… 3 weeks later we were pregnant.

Maybe waiting for money, maturity, or stability is against doctrine, but by doing so (in our situation) we are better parents.
 
There are basically two camps on this topic:

Camp 1 says if one is not ready to welcome a child one is not ready to marry, therefore schooling and jobs should come before marriage. Or, if married these are not sufficient reasons to use NFP.

Camp 2 says that schooling and jobs are just reasons to avoid pregnancy for a time but not sufficient reason to postpone marriage, especially if it leads to serious temptation to sin.

The bottom line is that the Church does not teach definitively on this subject, so Catholics are free to be in either Camp.

In the proximate preparation for marriage, this is a *pastoral *issue-- not a doctrinal one-- that should be discussed with the priest. Discernment of family size, timing, and use of NFP are issues that the couple must take into prayer. The Church simply does not give us a list.
 
Thank you for your reply.

One of the assumptions in motherhood is that the mother will stay home to homeschool and that she is in a situation where she can afford to or even prefer that over regular schooling.

While I am very happy for those who do do this, it is not as common and not always necessarily the best thing to do for the child and the family as a whole in every situation.

I believe that lay women who are mothers can be a great witness to the beauty of motherhood and a witness to the world by working in it.

Any thoughts?
 
I don’t think a parent should be judged purely on whether or not the mom chooses to work. Sometimes it cannot be avoided.

In the old days grandmothers and aunts helped care for the kids while mom worked and no one questioned these things. The morality of it is now questioned because of the feminist atmosphere and the irresponsible way people choose day care options, placing the child with strangers and in questionable environments.

These decisions should be done with much prayer and discernment. My experience has been that if one includes the Lord in handling these things, He provides for solutions that meet the spiritual and human needs of the child. It is when we try to lean on our own resources that things begin to get out of control.

I believe that if our goal is to raise saints, God will provide the way, even if many members of the family have to make sacrifices to reach that goal.

A coworker told me a story of how she, at five, and her little sister were left alone at night while her dad worked a second job assisted by their mother because their house caught on fire and they had no insurance in those days for such a thing. They held onto each other and shivered in terror in the dark. This went on for six months. Well, what else could be done. They were okay in the end, and the experience matured them in the end. Life can be hard sometimes.

I consider my job as a cross to bear.
 
We all do what we have to for our families. It has to do more with whether you are doing things for the right reason than what you choose to do.

I for one, have never had the option to stay home. As soon as I got married, my ex started having trouble holding down a job. So I worked. I was glad I did when my ex walked out the door after emptying our bank accounts.

Honestly, I don’t know whether I would have been a SAHM or if I would have homeschooled my kids. If I knew then what I know now… nothing would have stopped me from homeschooling, even if I had to work nights.

I believe that my working has been a good testimony to perseverance for my kids and foster kids over the years. Alot of my foster kids came from homes where mom had no work skills. They learned from me that a woman can work in technical fields.

As far as getting married with the intent to hold off children…
That is a whole 'nother ball of wax. Some say it is ok… others say no. Personally, I think it has to be the decision of the couple with prayer and discernment.
 
CA3891 said:
…One of the assumptions in motherhood is that the mother will stay home to homeschool and that she is in a situation where she can afford to or even prefer that over regular schooling.

While I am very happy for those who do do this, it is not as common and not always necessarily the best thing to do for the child and the family as a whole in every situation.

I believe that lay women who are mothers can be a great witness to the beauty of motherhood and a witness to the world by working in it.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
I don’t know anyone who assumes motherhood means mom will stay home and homeschool. I homeschool now, but I had a career before I married and for several years after we had children. Educational, career and family decisions are something that couples should make together, rather than simply assuming who will do what. While we can make our plans, that doesn’t mean everything will go according to our plan. Set backs like job loss and infertily happen sometimes.

Practically speaking, a two income family has “costs” that many fail to consider. Daycare is expensive. The tax rate is usually higher as the combined income is also higher. The cost of transportaion, clothing, meals away from home, etc. etc. adds up too. Adding up all the expenses, two parents working may not contribute as much money to the bottom line as people think. I loved working part time, but quit because I had both a desire to stay home and from a practical standpoint working wasn’t worth it. Once I quit, my husband focussed more on his career (rather than sharing in the whole day care drop off and pick up routine). His salary increased, which made up for what I used to make.

Regarding education, Catholic education can get very expensive. Few Catholic school are staffed by religious sisters these days. Those lay persons who feel called to teach and have a family don’t work for free–the exception being CCD teachers and homeschooling moms. That’s why we homeschool now.

No matter what we do, we are called to be witnesses to the world. While I was good at my job and hopefully witnessed Christian charity, I don’t think I witnessed “the beauty of motherhood” by virtue of my past employment. I can’t make decisions for other people, but can share my own experience. I am glad that I got my education and worked a few years in my career before getting married, and I’m glad we had our first child only about a year after we were married. I regret that I worked full time with our first baby. I have fewer regrets over working part time, but I have no regrets the decision to stay home with my children now.
 
CA3891 said:
Thank you for your reply.

One of the assumptions in motherhood is that the mother will stay home to homeschool and that she is in a situation where she can afford to or even prefer that over regular schooling.

While I am very happy for those who do do this, it is not as common and not always necessarily the best thing to do for the child and the family as a whole in every situation.

I believe that lay women who are mothers can be a great witness to the beauty of motherhood and a witness to the world by working in it.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
If a mother is not mothering her children how is that a great witness to motherhood? I understand that there can be situations of financial necessity, but I believe turning the children over to some daycare semi-anonymous daycare worker is not a good idea. After all, how can you control what those daycare workers teach your children? Young children are easily influenced.

Motherhood is not merely the biological process of conceiving, carrying, birthing and nursing children. It is an immense moral responsibility. One which, when abdicated for reasons other than absolute necessity, result is varying degrees of harm to her children.

The fact the motherhood has been all but abandoned in our modern culture does not mean that modern culture has come up with a better, or even good, way of doing things.

Modern culture teaches nothing but selfishness. Motherhood requires selflessness. The fact that modern society demeans motherhood and stay-at-home moms is a virtual guarantee that being a stay-at-home mom is the highest calling there is. It is certainly better than being a wage slave.
 
CA3891 said:
One of the assumptions in motherhood is that the mother will stay home to homeschool and that she is in a situation where she can afford to or even prefer that over regular schooling.

While I am very happy for those who do do this, it is not as common and not always necessarily the best thing to do for the child and the family as a whole in every situation.

I believe that lay women who are mothers can be a great witness to the beauty of motherhood and a witness to the world by working in it.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Mothering is a full-time job that’s done BEST without interference from an additional job. From your posts, I’m guessing you don’t have children of your own because your attitude is similar to how mine was before motherhood. Believe me, it’s a whole different ballpark after you have a child. Children are ALWAYS are better off at home with an involved mother than shipped off to daycare. I used to work at a daycare (a ritzy one, in fact) and those children there are not attended to like a mother would. I’ve also taught elementary and middle school grades, and a difference can usually be seen between a student who has one parent staying home and a student who has both parents working.

Granted there are situations where it is not possible for the mother to stay home (I was raised by a single, working mom) and I totally understand that life doesn’t always go as planned, I feel really sorry for those kids who have nannies or go to daycare just because their mommies want alone time or a heftier bank account. In the long run, devotion is what counts.
 
I guess for us the question is too, yes i could be a SAHM but then my husband would have to get a second job. Then my child would NEVER see his father. I don’t believe that’s healthy either.

Nor will I sacrifice the safety of my family and live somewhere with a high rate of crime, go on welfare etc just to stay home. My situation with my career is a little different as I don’t have those extra costs such as nice clothing (I could wear Pjs to work if I wanted to my boss doesn’t care) and I live about 15 minutes away.

If I were to quit my job my DH would have to make $21,000 more a year (this is what I make after taxes and a babysitter) and since he’s got a degree in Theology, I don’t see that happening anytime soon:)
 
Maria29,

Thank you for sharing your side of the story. Both my husband and I work in theology and in the Church and it is difficult for one of us to stay at home all the time. laity who serve the Church have a difficult time financially, which in some ways religious orders do not.

I completely agree that it would not be right for the children to not see their father often.

I believe some people need to be more realistic about the financial demands of living in certain areas and being in a different culture than 50 years ago.

I don’t believe it is safe to say that women who are choosing to work are doing it because they disrespect motherhood. Sometimes, bills need to get paid. Not everyone can live in North Dakota or a state where it is so inexpensive.

A lot of people are making assumptions about what type of career a mom would have which would mean she would have to place her children in day care and not be available for her families.

Again, this is not always the case.

There are jobs that mothers work at such as within the local Church that allow children to be with the parents or have the flexibility of having the children at home or a parent who works from home.

I appreciate the reminder that motherhood is selfless. It indeed is and is a wonderful vocation.
 
In other words,

the mom would be working, but the child would not be in daycare. This is the assumption in my statements.

She would be taking care of the children or having a relative at home with her while she works from home.

Absolutely no day care.
 
CA3891 said:
…laity who serve the Church have a difficult time financially, which in some ways religious orders do not…
Click to expand...
Religious orders usually take vows of poverty; married members of the laity usually don’t. Many religious vocations came from large families in the past, and with smaller families and fewer vocations, the cost of Catholic services increases because we don’t expect a married couple serving the Church live in poverty.

Since you honestly feel called to serve the Church and to marriage, consider that raising children who go into religious life is one way in which married couples greatly serve the Church. I’m not saying that that is what you and your husband should do–quite frankly I don’t know you. I have no idea if either of you are even fertile and capable of having a single child, whatless a large family. I don’t know if God would call a child of yours to religious life. Maybe right now you and your husband are doing exactly what God wants from you, but as you opened up a thread to discuss this topic, I’m throwing out some food for thought.
CA3891 said:
…I believe some people need to be more realistic about the financial demands of living in certain areas and being in a different culture than 50 years ago…A lot of people are making assumptions about what type of career a mom would have which would mean she would have to place her children in day care and not be available for her families.
Click to expand...
Yes, it certainly is a different culture from 50 years ago. But who specifically do you think is being unrealistic of financial demands? And why would we have assumed day care wouldn’t be involved in your career plans until you told us? :confused:

You started a thread about careers and mothers. I was once a working mother who used day care while pursuing my career. I have opinions on this topic because I’ve been there–done that. Many couples fail to take into account the higher tax on the* first* income are usually lower without the second income. And most families with two incomes *do *use daycare or babysitters when the children are young. When I worked, I didn’t have the option of taking my child to work with me, and on occassions when I tried to get work done at home my child/children disrupted me. Most two income families don’t have very many children either, and the babies they don’t have might be considered one of the “costs” of both parents working.

I will also share I know other moms who worked in a parish and they found the demands of their job very difficult on their families. One quit working altogether, the other found a different job with more regular hours.

If you and your husband made your choice to postpone pregnancy with prayerful discernment, and you believe this is what God is calling you to do, then you don’t need to justify your choice to us. If you haven’t prayed about this decision, then pray about it. Earlier tonight I read “Rumplestiltskin” to my children for their bedtime story. Do you remember the story about the funny little man who wanted to take the first born child a year after the miller’s daughter became queen? Women should be careful giving up a child they don’t yet know that might be concieved early in their marriage just for some straw spun into gold. I certainly haven’t done everything right, but I am very grateful that God does; He blessed our marriage with a child about a year after we married for which I will be eternally grateful.
 
I will say that if God calls you to a particular vocation…be in motherhood, then motherhood should always come first. But, I have also been called to a secular vocation…and my kids are older now, 11 and 14, so to work for me at this stage, doesn’t complicate my family life. I don’t believe that either parent is more important than the other in child rearing…not at all. As a mother, we need to be the best mothers we can be through God’s grace, and as dads…you need to be the best you can be through God’s grace. I don’t believe in a man working three jobs, never seeing his children, and being exhausted all the time, so a mom can stay home. Together, it takes sitting down and working out what will be best in the interest of the family…God will provide the tools…He is remarkable at how He makes everything work out.

I think that having children is a couple’s highest calling…and staying home to avoid daycare is the best situation. It’s not always ideal for everyone…it worked for me during my kids younger years. I’m thankful I had that time, but some women don’t.

I guess I’d say there isn’t a broadbrush answer to this question. But, it is not immoral for a woman to work…interesting thread!🙂
 
I live in Serbia and it is simply impossible here for even a childless couple to survive on a single income… so ALL the women work, but working hours are usually 8am - 3pm and there’s no commuting, so parents still get to spend a lot of time with their kids. Moms get a whole year of maternity leave and children are ofen taken care of by family members until age 3-4, when they go to kindergarten and usually love it. So this is a non-issue here.

That said, I’m so happy about this because if it were different, I’d really be torn. I find it extremely hard to spend a lot of time at home, and feel a great need to be active and dynamic in the world of adults, so the idea of having to be a SAHM for 20-30 yrs for moral reasons makes me think about how wonderful it would be to be killed in an accident, b/c suicide is a sin. I really admire women who do it, and understand I’m selfish, but I think a part-time happy mom is better than a full-time depressed or insane mom. 😊
 
I find many women aren’t interested in “careers” b/c they want financial or hierarchical success… but b/c they need adult interaction and adult logic for at least a part of their day.

In Serbia, the only SAHMs are in the rural, agricultural areas with large, extended families. Moms are never alone with kids. They live with their fathers and mothers-in-law, and lots of BsIL and SsIL. The men and older boys work in the fields while the women, girls and small children stay at home and take care of the house. No loneliness, plenty of adult interaction. I believe this is the natural mode of life, no longer applicable to our urban lifestyles. So we work to replace that :o .
 
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