CARM

[dianaiad]

No offense, but you are making claims without reference. Shouldn’t you provide a link to the rules about avatars or rules that specifically singled out Mormons? Please don’t make us do the home work for your claims. I did the homework to show that atheists can join, so that means you should be able join/post. If you claim there are other rules that discriminate, isn’t it appropriate that you provide the support for your claim?

If you wish, though I think that a simple ‘CFR’ would have sufficed. Snarkiness makes me irritable. Go here:carm.org/forum-rules, where you will read the following:

Avatars
Do not use an avatar deceptively. For example, if you’re an atheist, you cannot use an avatar that says Christian, or Charismatic, or Evangelical since it would not be truthful. Use avatars that are the closest to your position.
If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, use the Jehovah’s Witness avatar. If you are a Mormon (LDS), use the Mormon (LDS) avatar, etc.
CARM does not consider JW’s or Mormons (and other “cults”) to be Christians, so using the Christian avatar for them would be inappropriate. (emphasis mine.)

When you add in the fact that any threads or discussions about Mormonism are in the ‘cult’ section, that’s sufficient.

This claim will need better support. You mean even Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and atheists? Because believe it or not, “Most” of the world is NOT Christian of any kind…

Nor do they claim to be. Therefore they would not have a problem with it. However, Mormons ARE Christians. We claim to be. I know quite well that I am one. That doesn’t mean I agree with all the mainstream Christian doctrine out there; obviously I don’t. However, I’m a Christian because Jesus Christ is at the center of my beliefs, I follow His teachings as I claim them to be, and I claim the name. You seem to agree with that, actually. Given this opinion of mine, then being told that I must deny that in order to post in the group would be a rather large lie on my part, don’t you think?

Even if we include the Judeao/Christian/Muslim traditions as one group, that may only make up 1/2 the world at best, but this isn’t right because Jew and Muslims do not accept Jesus as god.

…nor do they claim to be Christian, nor would they find it a problem to agree that they aren’t. Apples and oranges here, my friend.

evidence?

I believe that I am a Christian. I believe, as the church believes, that Mormons are Christians. Therefore, for me to agree with anybody that we are not…that I am not…would be a lie. A very large one.

 

[musicality]

@ItsDarts

The main problem that I have with CARM is not their belief system (though it is clearly not compatible with my own), it is their lackluster moderation and manners.

The users of CARM are often hostile and uncharitable to anyone with whom they disagree.

 

[ItsDarts]

Moving the goalposts there, don’t you think?

The Book of Mormon is one of four of our “Standard Works,” which includes the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price and the Doctrine and Covenants. Each one of these works is considered to be scripture by us. We do not call the Bible anything but the Bible, and we do not call the Book of Mormon the Bible, either.

This might seem to you to be overly picky, but it’s not. After all, since we do believe in, and use, the Bible, then referring to the Book of Mormon as “the Mormon Bible” is very confusing. The Book of Mormon is not the Bible. The Bible is the Bible, and we believe in both.

I understand what you’re saying and have no problems with it. Afterall, the bible was pieced together from other book, and your books just haven’t been allowed to be migrated in to one big book (yet? ever?) but to discuss this further is way beyond the scope of this thread so I’ll drop it here, but will make reference to a page that may make for new topic. Is Mormonism Christian? The problem with this link is that you won’t be able to directly Debate Matt Slick, founder of CARM.

Well, two things occur to me in response to this: first, yes, we do believe that we belong to the 'Only True Church." in that we believe we have the most truth. That does NOT, however, mean that only Mormons go to heaven. We believe in at least three of those, you see.

Again beyond the scope of the thread, I don’t want to get an infraction so early into my career here LOL

The second thing is…well, I know of Christians who have some problem with the idea of ‘dead people com[ing] back to life after 3 days of death, then 40 days later, fly up to the sky, without a mechanical assistance.’ That’s not, as far as I can tell from any definition of "Christian’ that encompasses all Christian thought, a requirement.

I think I have to disagree with you here. Acceptance of the crucifixion, Resurrection and ascension is “Christian” doctrine/dogma, if Mormonism doesn’t accept this, then I would probably agree with CARM and most Christians that Mormonism isn’t Christian.

What IS a requirement, and possibly the only requirement, is that one have a certain Jesus of Nazareth, called Christ, at the center of one’s religious and ethical belief system. I would add that it’s probably important to actually believe in His teachings as one thinks they actually are, and to, y’know, claim the name.

Again, see above. I also believe you have to accept his virgin birth. (all of these things goes against what is known in reality and I can not honestly accept.)

“Christian” is not an imprimatur of salvation.

I understand you believe something different, you’d be hard pressed to find any “Christian” who would agree with you on this. Basically, if you’re not “Christian”, you aren’t going to be saved. (can any catholics confirm this?)

It’s a religious belief classification. I’ve seen some very odd Christian beliefs that are, I think, pretty wild and ‘out there.’ (That means I don’t believe 'em). They are still “Christian.” They just aren’t RIGHT.

Pot calling the kettle black? LOL This is one of the many reasons why I left Christianity, there are over 35000 sects worldwide, they certainly can’t all be right, but they can certainly all be wrong.

 

[ItsDarts]

If you wish, though I think that a simple ‘CFR’ would have sufficed. Snarkiness makes me irritable. Go here:carm.org/forum-rules, where you will read the following:

Avatars
Do not use an avatar deceptively. For example, if you’re an atheist, you cannot use an avatar that says Christian, or Charismatic, or Evangelical since it would not be truthful. Use avatars that are the closest to your position.
If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, use the Jehovah’s Witness avatar. If you are a Mormon (LDS), use the Mormon (LDS) avatar, etc.
CARM does not consider JW’s or Mormons (and other “cults”) to be Christians, so using the Christian avatar for them would be inappropriate. (emphasis mine.)

thank you, and I don’t know what a CFR is, my apologies. If I come off snarky, its because christian irrationality irritates me, so we’re even LOL. However, I don’t see whats wrong with an avatar rule. Or is it that you don’t like the way the mormon avatar looks? Whats wrong with portraying yourself under the avatar they set aside for you? What is dishonest about displaying their mormon avatar. I understand they don’t consider you christian and they make compelling arguments to that claim (see link in last post). I not offended that I can’t wear a “Christian” avatar as an atheist, even if its a “Devil” avatar, (i don’t know what it is yet).

When you add in the fact that any threads or discussions about Mormonism are in the ‘cult’ section, that’s sufficient.

One would think that you would want to defend your position and get it out of the cult thread and convince them that you are Christian. But that’s just me.

Nor do they claim to be. Therefore they would not have a problem with it. However, Mormons ARE Christians. We claim to be. I know quite well that I am one. That doesn’t mean I agree with all the mainstream Christian doctrine out there; obviously I don’t. However, I’m a Christian because Jesus Christ is at the center of my beliefs, I follow His teachings as I claim them to be, and I claim the name. You seem to agree with that, actually. Given this opinion of mine, then being told that I must deny that in order to post in the group would be a rather large lie on my part, don’t you think?

No one can take away from you what you yourself claim to be. Regardless of whether they agree with you or in this case, don’t agree. Heck, I live my life according to the Golden Rule for the most part and consider myself a better Christian than many Christians, one could even say I was Christian Like, But because I don’t accept the nonsensical, seemingly impossible miracles listed in the bible, (or Koran, Talmud, or any other holy scriptures) I’d be hard pressed to consider myself a Christian. All I’m saying is defend your faith, you wouldn’t be lying to yourself by wearing their Mormon Avatar.

I believe that I am a Christian. I believe, as the church believes, that Mormons are Christians. Therefore, for me to agree with anybody that we are not…that I am not…would be a lie. A very large one.

No one is asking that you agree to not being Christian, you are offered a forum to defend your position, using an avatar selected for you (do you have to have an avatar at all?). How is defending your position a lie?

 

[ItsDarts]

@ItsDarts

The main problem that I have with CARM is not their belief system (though it is clearly not compatible with my own), it is their lackluster moderation and manners.

The users of CARM are often hostile and uncharitable to anyone with whom they disagree.

So I won’t find any hostility here with those who disagree with me, which is pretty much everyone who claims to be christian? All the forums I’ve ever been too, have shown some levels of hostility, its called DEBATE. Emotions run high on both sides of a debate and it’s to be expected to some level. If mods aren’t doing their job, there should be a way to report it, or argue your case to someone. Like I told dianaiad**, defend your faith. **Hmm, now I can’t turn bold off…grrrr…

 

[IHeartAquinas]

I understand you believe something different, you’d be hard pressed to find any “Christian” who would agree with you on this. Basically, if you’re not “Christian”, you aren’t going to be saved. (can any catholics confirm this?)

Incurable ignorance. A non-christian, without access or reliable access to the teachings of the Church or other Christian community, but still living a righteous life, without ever partaking of the Eucharist or Baptism et-cetera, can and will probably be saved. This is the Catholic stance.

The Evangelical Christians I work with? No. No one outside the True Christians (c) can be saved. Myself included.

I think that this is rapidly turning into an Atheist vs. Mormon thread, the atheist defending CARM by attacking the arguments against it (strawman), the Mormons simply defending their feelings on the matter.

The POINT of this thread was primarily to see if my reservations about it were shared, and it seems they are. In reference to a large part of the debate, a primary reason is that CARM does not reliably research the religions they are debunking. Their claims against Catholicism are erroneous at best. Their claims against Mormonism have been several times denounced as erroneous at best, and I can assume that their claims against all other religions they debunk are severely erroneous as well.

That being said, almost everyone who has posted to this thread has said the same thing about their attitudes in their forums: they are uncharitable, impatient, and hostile.

Reading through this thread, and reading its developments, the Catholic and Mormon members posting have been nothing but charitable in explaining their position. It seems that only ItsDarts has an issue. The original point of the thread has long since been answered. I only popped in because it jumped from 2 pages to 4. This thread was not intended to be a debate on the reliability of CARM, but other posters’ thoughts on CARM. We have a general consensus that CARM is ill-informed and not worth the time.

Thank you all for your enlightening responses.

 

[IHeartAquinas]

BTW: The bold tags look like this:

-b-] bold text bold text -/-b-]

But remove the dashes in the tags.

That’s the easiest way to do it, and you are ensured of turning bold “off” when you’re done with it.

Italics use i in place of b, and underline uses u in place of i and b.

 

[ItsDarts]

Incurable ignorance. A non-christian, without access or reliable access to the teachings of the Church or other Christian community, but still living a righteous life, without ever partaking of the Eucharist or Baptism et-cetera, can and will probably be saved. This is the Catholic stance.

So it would seem that in the “Catholic Stance” we’re better off not having to deal with Christianity or having known about it, yet Missions have been around since the beginning so once you do know about it, you’re screwed if you don’t live the “Christian Life”?. Just because you add the tag, “This is the Catholic Stance” doesn’t make it true without actual scriptural support. And ummm to me, that bolded part above comes across as rather hostile to me. Yes, I may have never been a “Catholic”, thus my “ignornace” of the Catholic Stance. By the way, I was a Christian (Lutheran) in the distant past, so yes, we have differing opinions in this stance.

The Evangelical Christians I work with? No. No one outside the True Christians (c) can be saved. Myself included.

What is your definition of True Christian? (c)

I think that this is rapidly turning into an Atheist vs. Mormon thread, the atheist defending CARM by attacking the arguments against it (strawman), the Mormons simply defending their feelings on the matter.

What arguments against it? No whos starting a strawman? This is why I joined this thread, there wasn’t any arguments, just rants. My apologies if that’s all this thread was for. Just out of curiosity, what is the Evangelical population like around here? Are they treated Charitably (what ever that means in this context) and with respect?

The POINT of this thread was primarily to see if my reservations about it were shared, and it seems they are.

Big surprise, there’s a group who disagrees with you and any disagreement is perceived as hostile.Debate in general seems to be seen as hostile.

In reference to a large part of the debate, a primary reason is that CARM does not reliably research the religions they are debunking.

Examples would have been nice, thus actually adding fuel to an actual debate.

Their claims against Catholicism are erroneous at best. Their claims against Mormonism have been several times denounced as erroneous at best, and I can assume that their claims against all other religions they debunk are severely erroneous as well.

Again, examples? And again, I’m not necessarily defending them, remember, I think they are just as wrong as you in the over all scheme of things. If anything, my presence here may make people THINK. Why are “other Christians” following scripture differently than a Catholic, Mormon, etc? Basically, all I’ve seen here are ad hominem attacks on CARM with no real examples. Even the Mormon’s example was erroneous, he/she was able to join, and use an avatar of the Mormon type (what ever that means) and he had the opportunity to defend his/her faith.

That being said, almost everyone who has posted to this thread has said the same thing about their attitudes in their forums: they are uncharitable, impatient, and hostile.

Doesn’t surprise me, debates in almost every forum I’ve been in has some level of hostility, people don’t like to think they are wrong. The real strength comes from YOU being able to be civil and defending your faith with scripture and exegesis. Emotions run high in all camps and the anonymity of internet forums allows people to act less than civil when confronted. So was this thread started “just to poison the well” so to speak? Remember, you attract more fly’s with honey than with vinegar. Show them the error of their ways if you don’t agree.

Reading through this thread, and reading its developments, the Catholic and Mormon members posting have been nothing but charitable in explaining their position. It seems that only ItsDarts has an issue. The original point of the thread has long since been answered. I only popped in because it jumped from 2 pages to 4. This thread was not intended to be a debate on the reliability of CARM, but other posters’ thoughts on CARM. We have a general consensus that CARM is ill-informed and not worth the time.

Thank you all for your enlightening responses.

You’re welcome

 

[dianaiad]

I understand what you’re saying and have no problems with it. Afterall, the bible was pieced together from other book, and your books just haven’t been allowed to be migrated in to one big book (yet? ever?) but to discuss this further is way beyond the scope of this thread so I’ll drop it here, but will make reference to a page that may make for new topic. Is Mormonism Christian? The problem with this link is that you won’t be able to directly Debate Matt Slick, founder of CARM.

Again beyond the scope of the thread, I don’t want to get an infraction so early into my career here LOL

I think I have to disagree with you here. Acceptance of the crucifixion, Resurrection and ascension is “Christian” doctrine/dogma, if Mormonism doesn’t accept this, then I would probably agree with CARM and most Christians that Mormonism isn’t Christian.

Again, see above. I also believe you have to accept his virgin birth. (all of these things goes against what is known in reality and I can not honestly accept.)

Actually, Mormons believe all of the above. That’s not the point. The above beliefs are not, according to every dictionary definition of “Christian” there is, part of the requirements. In fact, adding them into the definition is a pretty classic “True Scott” fallacy.

Think about it for a moment: if you have a group who has the teachings of Jesus Christ at the center of their faith, whether they believe in His divinity or not, His physical death upon the cross and ultimate resurrection and assumption or not, or that He was the product of a virgin birth or not…if they claim to be Christian and CORRECT, who has the authority to say that they are not Christian? Why should that group, which thinks that all other Christians are wrong about these things, accept that judgment?

No, whether they are correct in what they believe about Him or not, if their beliefs fall within the broad catagory of ‘Christian,’ and they claim it, then they are.

I understand you believe something different, you’d be hard pressed to find any “Christian” who would agree with you on this.

There you go, absolute CLASSIC 'True Scot" fallacy.

Basically, if you’re not “Christian”, you aren’t going to be saved. (can any catholics confirm this?)

Sez who?

Pot calling the kettle black? LOL This is one of the many reasons why I left Christianity, there are over 35000 sects worldwide, they certainly can’t all be right, but they can certainly all be wrong.

I know, that’s the problem Joseph Smith had. (Oh, come ON…you couldn’t expect any self respecting Mormon to ignore THAT opening!)

 

[dianaiad]

thank you, and I don’t know what a CFR is, my apologies. If I come off snarky, its because christian irrationality irritates me, so we’re even LOL. However, I don’t see whats wrong with an avatar rule. Or is it that you don’t like the way the mormon avatar looks? Whats wrong with portraying yourself under the avatar they set aside for you? What is dishonest about displaying their mormon avatar. I understand they don’t consider you christian and they make compelling arguments to that claim (see link in last post). I not offended that I can’t wear a “Christian” avatar as an atheist, even if its a “Devil” avatar, (i don’t know what it is yet).

What if you were told that in order to participate in a specific debate forum that because you had a specific philosophical approach to life, that you weren’t a ‘real atheist,’ and that if you used an avatar, it would have to be one that set you apart from the 'real thing?"

How would you react if, in order to participate in a specific debate forum, that you had to admit to being a religion…an ‘anti-religion’ if you will? (I do know forums that insist that atheism IS a religion, or at least some forms of it are…).

I have no problem with an LDS avatar, should I decide to use one…I AM, after all, LDS. The problem I have is that I am prohibited from displaying the Christian one. Thus, displaying the LDS avatar would be an admission and an agreement that I am NOT Christian, and I won’t do that.

One would think that you would want to defend your position and get it out of the cult thread and convince them that you are Christian. But that’s just me.

I’m sixty years old. I’ve been dealing with folks like CARM for forty years, and if there is one thing I have learned over those years, it’s to choose the battlegrounds. Even Martin Luther King didn’t preach at KKK meetings. It’s the “Pearls before Swine” principle.

No one can take away from you what you yourself claim to be. Regardless of whether they agree with you or in this case, don’t agree.

Exactly…and to post in that arena would be to agree. Shoot, you have to check a box that says you will abide by the rules in order to REGISTER for the site.

Heck, I live my life according to the Golden Rule for the most part and consider myself a better Christian than many Christians, one could even say I was Christian Like, But because I don’t accept the nonsensical, seemingly impossible miracles listed in the bible, (or Koran, Talmud, or any other holy scriptures) I’d be hard pressed to consider myself a Christian. All I’m saying is defend your faith, you wouldn’t be lying to yourself by wearing their Mormon Avatar.

I would be lying if I agreed that they had the right to refuse ME the right to wear the Christian one.

No one is asking that you agree to not being Christian, you are offered a forum to defend your position, using an avatar selected for you (do you have to have an avatar at all?). How is defending your position a lie?

But that’s it, sir. That is precisely what they are asking me to agree to, and that’s the point.

 

[dianaiad]

So I won’t find any hostility here with those who disagree with me, which is pretty much everyone who claims to be christian? All the forums I’ve ever been too, have shown some levels of hostility, its called DEBATE. Emotions run high on both sides of a debate and it’s to be expected to some level. If mods aren’t doing their job, there should be a way to report it, or argue your case to someone. Like I told dianaiad**, defend your faith. **Hmm, now I can’t turn bold off…grrrr…

There is hostility…and then there is hostility.

It is true that even in here, when emotions run high the ad hominems can start to fly. That’s why we have moderators.

“Debate” is when the POSITIONS are argued over. True hostility implies personal attacks, disparagement and mockery.

 

[ItsDarts]

I think you got the quoting wrong, those were my posts, but anyway like I said earlier, arguing your Christianity in this thread is beyond the scope, so I won’t reply to your last reply and ask that you view this link, and if you disagree or can refute their claims, I think it would make for a great new topic in this forum…

What I do find odd is that some may claim that because you have new books and they aren’t what the bible teaches or if they think the BOM is silly because it contains things like the Seer stones and gold plates that Joseph used to write the BOM, yet they are perfectly fine with a dead guy coming back to life and all the other alleged miracles in their own book and forget that their own book was pieced together 300+ years after the fact. Personally I find them both silly and not a part of any reality we know of.

I disagree that just anybody can logically (honestly?) claim to be a christian if they just take his teaching to heart. The entire point of Christianity is the acceptance of his divinity (god incarnate) and that he died and magically came back to life for your sins and flew bodily up to heaven. If you believe this, then yes I agree you should be able to call yourself a Christian. CARM Claims that Mormons think that Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are three separate gods and that link showed references to the D&C. Which is NOT the true spirit of the trinity, which I thought are three different natures of one god, but then I never understood how 3 = 1 anyway.

 

[Shannon9791]

Big surprise, there’s a group who disagrees with you and any disagreement is perceived as hostile.Debate in general seems to be seen as hostile. Examples would have been nice, thus actually adding fuel to an actual debate. Again, examples? And again, I’m not necessarily defending them, remember, I think they are just as wrong as you in the over all scheme of things. If anything, my presence here may make people THINK. Why are “other Christians” following scripture differently than a Catholic, Mormon, etc? Basically, all I’ve seen here are ad hominem attacks on CARM with no real examples. Even the Mormon’s example was erroneous, he/she was able to join, and use an avatar of the Mormon type (what ever that means) and he had the opportunity to defend his/her faith.

How’s this for an example? Right now in the Roman Catholic thread section at CARM there’s a thread titled “I am glad that there is rampant sexual sin in the RCC.” The author of this thread taking the stance that the victims of the sexual abuse deserved it because they are a part of the Catholic Church. Please tell me, master debater, how does one debate against that? It’s not a point of contention. We know that those things happened, and we’re trying to make it right and move on, but to say that one is glad that it happened is not only undebatable, but quite disturbing as well.

 

[dianaiad]

So it would seem that in the “Catholic Stance” we’re better off not having to deal with Christianity or having known about it, yet Missions have been around since the beginning so once you do know about it, you’re screwed if you don’t live the “Christian Life”?. Just because you add the tag, “This is the Catholic Stance” doesn’t make it true without actual scriptural support. And ummm to me, that bolded part above comes across as rather hostile to me. Yes, I may have never been a “Catholic”, thus my “ignornace” of the Catholic Stance. By the way, I was a Christian (Lutheran) in the distant past, so yes, we have differing opinions in this stance.

I’m not the author of the bolded comment, but…in this case, it was bolded the way initial terms are bolded, then followed by normal fonts with the definition. “Incurable ignorance” is a specific theological term, not an insult aimed at you. Besides which, it wouldn’t apply to you anyway, since Catholics consider Lutherans to be Christian.

It would help the tone of the discussion a lot if you don’t assume that everybody is out to get you. Sometimes…it’s just a definition of a specific theological term.

What is your definition of True Christian? (c)

What arguments against it? No whos starting a strawman? This is why I joined this thread, there wasn’t any arguments, just rants. My apologies if that’s all this thread was for. Just out of curiosity, what is the Evangelical population like around here? Are they treated Charitably (what ever that means in this context) and with respect?

Generally they are treated with respect. We have moderators who step in when the fur really starts to fly. The evangelists,, however, coming from forums more like CARM and internet newsgroups, sometimes find that they need to dial down the rhetoric.

Big surprise, there’s a group who disagrees with you and any disagreement is perceived as hostile.

Those who cannot see the difference between ad hominem attacks and defending/opposing a position or belief sometimes figure that ad hominems are the preferred method.

Debate in general seems to be seen as hostile. Examples would have been nice, thus actually adding fuel to an actual debate. Again, examples? And again, I’m not necessarily defending them, remember, I think they are just as wrong as you in the over all scheme of things. If anything, my presence here may make people THINK. Why are “other Christians” following scripture differently than a Catholic, Mormon, etc? Basically, all I’ve seen here are ad hominem attacks on CARM with no real examples. Even the Mormon’s example was erroneous, he/she was able to join, and use an avatar of the Mormon type (what ever that means) and he had the opportunity to defend his/her faith.

I’m female…perhaps I’ve used it too long, but somehow “dianaiad” has never felt ‘male’ to me. (shrug) Ah, well.

But no, as I have illustrated, the only way I can join in those debates and defend my faith is to begin by lying about my faith. That’s an ethical dilemma I can’t get over.

Doesn’t surprise me, debates in almost every forum I’ve been in has some level of hostility, people don’t like to think they are wrong. The real strength comes from YOU being able to be civil and defending your faith with scripture and exegesis. Emotions run high in all camps and the anonymity of internet forums allows people to act less than civil when confronted. So was this thread started “just to poison the well” so to speak? Remember, you attract more fly’s with honey than with vinegar. Show them the error of their ways if you don’t agree.

You’re welcome

That’s “flies.” You attract more flies with honey than with vinagar…and I deeply apologize for doing that, by the way. It’s considered to be bad netiquette to correct spelling as a form of debate or attack, and I’m quite certain that yours was an innocent typo. Since my own spelling leaves much to be desired, I’m aware that I’m leaving myself wide open for retaliation! However, and I’m sorry, but I’m an English teacher. That one made my fingernails curl. Please forgive me!

I’ll try not to do it again, unless someone uses ‘hypothetical’ as a noun. I do not guarantee a sane response if that happens.

 

[Shannon9791]

That’s “flies.” You attract more flies with honey than with vinagar…and I deeply apologize for doing that, by the way. It’s considered to be bad netiquette to correct spelling as a form of debate or attack, and I’m quite certain that yours was an innocent typo. Since my own spelling leaves much to be desired, I’m aware that I’m leaving myself wide open for retaliation! However, and I’m sorry, but I’m an English teacher. That one made my fingernails curl. Please forgive me!

I’ll try not to do it again, unless someone uses ‘hypothetical’ as a noun. I do not guarantee a sane response if that happens.

Hate to do this to you, but it’s “Vinegar.” The only reason I call you on it though is because you called someone else out.

 

[dianaiad]

Hate to do this to you, but it’s “Vinegar.” The only reason I call you on it though is because you called someone else out.

Yes, well…if you will remember, in that very ‘calling out,’ I did mention that my own spelling left much to be desired, and I begged forgiveness. It’s just that ‘fly’s’ for ‘flies’ was too much for my weak constitution to resist, even knowing that folks like you would probably come after me for some spelling error that I was fairly certain I had committed…even if I didn’t have a clue whether I had committed one. I usually do, though. So…come ahead, I deserve it.

It was the apostrophe, you see. I couldn’t handle the apostrophe–and I am ashamed.

 

[ItsDarts]

How’s this for an example? Right now in the Roman Catholic thread section at CARM there’s a thread titled “I am glad that there is rampant sexual sin in the RCC.” The author of this thread taking the stance that the victims of the sexual abuse deserved it because they are a part of the Catholic Church. Please tell me, master debater, how does one debate against that? It’s not a point of contention. We know that those things happened, and we’re trying to make it right and move on, but to say that one is glad that it happened is not only undebatable, but quite disturbing as well.

thank you for bringing an example and it makes a good point. The thread was started by an active member (over 2400 posts) and after two pages of his vitriol, I haven’t seen any attempts from mods (if they have them) to stop his post. The poster, StHilarious, appears to be either a poser, trying to stir up “stuff” or a real whacked and uninformed fire and brimstone nut. I guess my point when entering this thread was to stir you people (Catholics) up to defend your faith and stand your ground? In two pages of post, I’ve seen only one poor catholic and a few “others” arguing against this idiot. If the rules are lax there, it should be easy to counter his position and NOT allow everyone who stumbles upon the thread to absorb his vitriol. Shouldn’t you all be trying to educate and at the same time show tolerance? Turning the other cheek is one thing, but not defending the faith just seems weak and allows misinformation and vitriol to spread.

Here is one comment he made that even I know is wrong…

“**
I am certainly allowed to judge a vile institution like yours.”

Hmmm what happened to “Judge not, lest ye be judged”? "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

**These versus are certainly in HIS bible as well, and therefore he is not being Christian like at all, shouldn’t that be pointed out? Again my point is, don’t run, fight, stop the spread of misinformation.

This is another reason I left Chrisitanity. It has a tendency to divide, not bring together, because of all the various sects. Even this forum has a “non-catholic” forums section, instead of just a Religious Debate forum, no mater the religion, its segregated.

That StHillarious guy? He’s just a Westboro Baptist type, not to be taken seriously, IMHO. You Christians not defending your faith and “Other Christians” dogging other Christian faiths is embarrassing for all Christians in general, again IMHO.

 

[ItsDarts]

Yes, well…if you will remember, in that very ‘calling out,’ I did mention that my own spelling left much to be desired, and I begged forgiveness. It’s just that ‘fly’s’ for ‘flies’ was too much for my weak constitution to resist, even knowing that folks like you would probably come after me for some spelling error that I was fairly certain I had committed…even if I didn’t have a clue whether I had committed one. I usually do, though. So…come ahead, I deserve it.

It was the apostrophe, you see. I couldn’t handle the apostrophe–and I am ashamed.

OMG, you should be LOL… I used the “spell checker” in my browser and picked the wrong one. Flies was listed. my bad

 

[dianaiad]

OMG, you should be LOL… I used the “spell checker” in my browser and picked the wrong one. Flies was listed. my bad

Spell checkers were designed by gremlins with a vile sense of humor.

----------------though they do sometimes make a teacher’s entire day.

 

[Shannon9791]

thank you for bringing an example and it makes a good point. The thread was started by an active member (over 2400 posts) and after two pages of his vitriol, I haven’t seen any attempts from mods (if they have them) to stop his post. The poster, StHilarious, appears to be either a poser, trying to stir up “stuff” or a real whacked and uninformed fire and brimstone nut. I guess my point when entering this thread was to stir you people (Catholics) up to defend your faith and stand your ground? In two pages of post, I’ve seen only one poor catholic and a few “others” arguing against this idiot. If the rules are lax there, it should be easy to counter his position and NOT allow everyone who stumbles upon the thread to absorb his vitriol. Shouldn’t you all be trying to educate and at the same time show tolerance? Turning the other cheek is one thing, but not defending the faith just seems weak and allows misinformation and vitriol to spread.

Here is one comment he made that even I know is wrong…

“**
I am certainly allowed to judge a vile institution like yours.”

Hmmm what happened to “Judge not, lest ye be judged”? "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

**These versus are certainly in HIS bible as well, and therefore he is not being Christian like at all, shouldn’t that be pointed out? Again my point is, don’t run, fight, stop the spread of misinformation.

This is another reason I left Chrisitanity. It has a tendency to divide, not bring together, because of all the various sects. Even this forum has a “non-catholic” forums section, instead of just a Religious Debate forum, no mater the religion, its segregated.

That StHillarious guy? He’s just a Westboro Baptist type, not to be taken seriously, IMHO. You Christians not defending your faith and “Other Christians” dogging other Christian faiths is embarrassing for all Christians in general, again IMHO.

Most anyone here would love nothing more to have a nice civilized debate with anyone on CARM, but the problem is, a great number of them are like that poster we’re discussing. He wouldn’t last a week here for several reasons. One being the mods would toss him if he started that type of thread, and two being that the people here know their stuff. And even you said it, someone being pleased that people were abused isn’t misinformation, it’s bat-poo crazy, and there’s nothing we can do against that. We can only educate those who have an open mind and want to find out about us, not those who spout nonsense and don’t care if what they’re saying is right or wrong, just that it vilifies the Catholic Church.