Carmelite Spirituality

[Dark_Shadows]

I am seeking a better understanding of the Will, the Intellect, the Soul, and the Imagination. Specifically, what each one is individually, what their respective purposes are, how they work together, and how they react and effect the others.

Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross speak about these frequently in their works. At times they speak of them as a whole, and at other times, such as in the Dark Night and the Interior Castle they refer to each individually and separate.

I want to understand what the imagination’s role is, where it ends and where the role of the intellect takes over. Where the intellect ends and the role of the soul takes over, and where is the will in relationship to the others and how do they all come together to make “me- a person.”

 

[Dark_Shadows]

“Bump”

Any thoughts on the above?

 

[AlanFromWichita]

All right. I have no idea about Carmelite spirituality, but I’ll comment on your topics. Don’t say ignorance kept me from expressing an opinion.

I look at the intellect as a machine, a tool. Often I look at the subconscious as the operating system, and the focused consciousness as a window opened to part of it. One way to optimize mental performance is to establish rich communication links … to eventually give way to direct connects … between the focused consciousness and the subconscious. They always interact, but we have some amount, usually quite a bit, of a dysfunctional relationship between the two.

The will directs what the intellect focuses on. The will does not know how to direct the subconscious; rather the will comes from the subconscious as a result of your operating system – both nature and nurture.

OK I’ll stop there until you tell me if you think my thought models are interesting.

Alan

 

[Cominghome89]

Let me give you a few scattered answers, and see if you find any of it helpful.

First, these terms are philosophical. Picking up some introduction to St. Thomas Aquinas and his treatment of intellect, will, etc. would be helpful to you. That being said, realize that there is a difference in the use of these terms in St. Teresa and St. John of the Cross. St. John of the Cross was a very well-educated Friar, and he knew the scholastic terms in great depth. St. Teresa, while her spiritual doctrine is in harmony with St. John, was not formally educated, and so she uses terms such as imagination/intellect or spirit/soul/mind interchangeably. So, if you want to understand these terms in a systematic and precise way, you’d really need to read a bit of scholastic terminology (Aquinas) and stick to St. John of the Cross. However, many people find St. Teresa easier to read because of her honest, attractive style.

All that being said, I won’t define these terms for you, because my philosophy’s a bit rusty, so hopefully somebody may come along and give you the definitions you’d like. But let me try to answer a bit of your last paragraph, the practical stuff.

I want to understand what the imagination’s role is, where it ends and where the role of the intellect takes over. Where the intellect ends and the role of the soul takes over, and where is the will in relationship to the others and how do they all come together to make “me- a person.”

Ok, so the role of the imagination in one’s prayer life really depends on the individual. Following the doctrine of St. Teresa and St. John, in prayer we are to constantly try to remain recollected, aware of Christ’s presence. For some with vivid imaginations, a very lively imagining of a particular Gospel passage may help recollection. Others (St. Teresa includes herself here) may have a very dull imagination, and are better recollected by recalling a passage from a spiritual book, or by looking at a particularly striking holy card. The use of one’s intellect (pondering a particular Gospel scene or truth of our faith) may be God’s way of leading one to deeper prayer at a certain time. At other times, reasoning or imagining may lead us far from recollection, where we end up thinking about what’s for dinner or what we have to do once prayer time is over. So, to ask when the intellect or the imagination or the soul takes over…well, that’s not quite how it works. God will sometimes work through the intellect, sometimes the imagination, sometimes deep in the soul, in a way where one’s senses and intellect have nothing to do with it. St. Teresa talks about advanced stages of contemplation where the memory or the imagination are spinning quite crazily, yet God is working on a deeper level.

The will is our choice, so to speak. Even if my imagination is not working well, I can’t concentrate, I can’t even think much about God, I still have my will. I can give that to God, and say (so to speak) “God, I can’t concentrate on you, I can’t think about you, but I choose to sit here and be with you.” That choice of the will (which you may be constantly renewing in your prayer time, as you keep getting distracted) is most important. St. Teresa says that a soul that perseveres in prayer, that gives its will continually to God without getting discouraged by “lack of results” or “good prayer” will not be lost.

And this leads to an important last point. St. Teresa constantly stresses that the only sign that one is praying is virtue: love of neighbor, detachment from the desire for earthly things, and humility. If one is giving time to God in prayer and is growing in these virtues, he is praying, even if his imagination or intellect don’t seem to be “doing much” in prayer. On the other hand, one may have beautiful thoughts about God, consoling meditations, peaceful hours in prayer. But, if he is impatient when interrupted, uncharitable with others, proud of his “success” in prayer, he is not praying. Virtue alone is the measure of prayer.

I hope that’s somewhat helpful. I am in formation as a Discalced Carmelite Friar, so the spirituality is fresh in my mind, but to be honest the philosophical terms are a bit hazy, so I apologize for not getting to all you wanted to know. May God bless you as you continue this journey toward Him. And stick with these two beautiful Saints and Doctors of prayer, they are a sure way to true Catholic spirituality.

In Christ through Mary,
Frank

 

[mercytruth]

I am seeking a better understanding of the Will, the Intellect, the Soul, and the Imagination. Specifically, what each one is individually, what their respective purposes are, how they work together, and how they react and effect the others.

Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross speak about these frequently in their works. At times they speak of them as a whole, and at other times, such as in the Dark Night and the Interior Castle they refer to each individually and separate.

I want to understand what the imagination’s role is, where it ends and where the role of the intellect takes over. Where the intellect ends and the role of the soul takes over, and where is the will in relationship to the others and how do they all come together to make “me- a person.”

The way that St. John of the Cross explains the intellect, the imagination (memory) and the will is the way in which one becomes infused with the three virtues of faith, hope and love in one’s desire for union with God.

We must die to the intellect to receive the virtue of faith. We must die to the memory (imagination) to receive the virtue of hope. We must die to the will to receive the virtue of love.

The fallen human intellect with its reasoning faculties is contrary to the child-like faith, or ‘trust’ in God** regardless **of the circumstances of one’s life.

The fallen human memory of the imagination holds on to the vain expectations of this world, rather than having one’s hope, or expectation in the world to come.

The fallen human will is geared to satisfying the desires of one own self, rather than loving God and one’s neighbor.

The dark night of the senses begins the purging process of the human intellect, memory and will so that one becomes more inclined to the will of God in faith, hope, and charity.

The dark night of the spirit supposedly completely purges the human intellect, memory and will so that an individual becomes one with God in perfect faith, hope and love.

This is how I understand St. John of the Cross in the most simplest terms of your question. Humility before God, denying one’s self and taking up one’s cross is the short version.

God’s peace be with you

micah

 

[Sirach2]

Cominghome89:

The will is our choice, so to speak. Even if my imagination is not working well, I can’t concentrate, I can’t even think much about God, I still have my will. I can give that to God, and say (so to speak) “God, I can’t concentrate on you, I can’t think about you, but I choose to sit here and be with you.”

Realizing that the choice in using our will was very helpful to me. St. Teresa said that when the understanding and imagination are quieted or suspended by God, they are subject to many distractions in prayer, being unoccupied with anything else and unable to focus.

However, if our intention is to be with him and/or to pray certain vocal prayers, the will is praying, even though the other faculties are out in left field battling pesky flies of distraction. So often I am rather amused that we can multitask, just like a computer with more than one screen in view. Haven’t we all prayed the rosary (with our will) while thinking about what to make for dinner (in the imagination), or solving a personal difficulty (using the understanding)?

The difficulty escalates when we reach the later mansions and the desire to understand - through using discursive meditation - is impossible and no longer needed. Since it cannot work, it gives the will all this hassle when it finds itself alone. Our saint put it this way: When we are peeling an orange, we can keep working at it as long as there is rind left on the fruit. But what happens when all of the rind is peeled and there is no more work to do?

 

[Dark_Shadows]

Thank you everyone. You have given me many points to ponder and re-assured me I am on the right track with my understanding.