Carmelites: Discalced vs. Ancient Observance

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Besides not wearing shoes, what are the differences between Discalced Carmelites and the regular Carmelites (Carmelites of the Ancient Observance)?
 
There are a couple of members far more informed on the Carmelite Order than I am, but to my understanding the O.Carm’s follow the Ancient Rule of St. Albert which was the original Carmelite Rule, while the OCD (discalced) follow the Rule of St. Teresa of Avila, which was revised by Vatican2. These two branches of Carmel however have very close ties and the Rule of the one is fully appreciated by the other and both branches (including their saints) form the overall Carmelite family - to my understanding.

Blessings - Barb:)
 
First, the shoe thing isn’t really that much of a difference any more. Many O.Carm.s wear sandals and some O.C.D.s wear shoes.

There is a difference in the habits.

Both orders follow the Rule of St Albert. The O.C.D. constitutions will be based off of the Constitutions that St Teresa of Avila wrote, she did not write a rule.

I think the biggest difference is in our ministries. I believe that the O.Carm. are a bit more active.
 
ByzCath said:
First, the shoe thing isn’t really that much of a difference any more. Many O.Carm.s wear sandals and some O.C.D.s wear shoes.

There is a difference in the habits.

Both orders follow the Rule of St Albert. The O.C.D. constitutions will be based off of the Constitutions that St Teresa of Avila wrote, she did not write a rule.

I think the biggest difference is in our ministries. I believe that the O.Carm. are a bit more active.
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Thank you for sorting me out re constituion/rule.👍 I never realized either that O.Carm andOCD wear different habits. Would you happen to know of a site where I could see an O.Carm habit?

Blessings…regards…Barb:)
 
BarbaraTherese said:
Thank you for sorting me out re constituion/rule.👍 I never realized either that O.Carm andOCD wear different habits. Would you happen to know of a site where I could see an O.Carm habit?

Blessings…regards…Barb:)
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View my public profile and you will see me in my habit from the waist up.

The difference isn’t much. Our (O.Carm.) scapular is a bit longer as is our capuche and we have a full hood.
 
Hello,
ByzCath said:
I think the biggest difference is in our ministries. I believe that the O.Carm. are a bit more active.
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Yeah, I would say that the Discalced Carmelites are more contemplative. They also seem to be more mystical - at least all the great Carmelite mystics seem to be from the Discalced Carmelites. Due to this, in my opinion, the Discalced Carmelites are more rooted to the Order’s eremitical origins on Mount Carmel, while the Calced Carmelites are more true to the model of the Medieval Order’s that were active.
 
ByzCath said:
View my public profile and you will see me in my habit from the waist up.

The difference isn’t much. Our (O.Carm.) scapular is a bit longer as is our capuche and we have a full hood.
Click to expand...
Thank you …one last question, do the O.Carm nuns vary their habit too from the OCD? I don’t know much about O.Carm at all really that I can recall, except reading O.Carm articles, and am presupposing that there are O.Carm nuns?..Barb:)
 
JMJ_coder said:
Hello,

Yeah, I would say that the Discalced Carmelites are more contemplative. They also seem to be more mystical - at least all the great Carmelite mystics seem to be from the Discalced Carmelites. Due to this, in my opinion, the Discalced Carmelites are more rooted to the Order’s eremitical origins on Mount Carmel, while the Calced Carmelites are more true to the model of the Medieval Order’s that were active.
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Well now… the two greatest Carmelite mystics, St Teresa of Avlia and St John of the Cross were O.Carm. ;), as the O.C.D. was just a reform movement within the O.Carm. at the time of St Teresa’s death and then was a reformed province at the time of St John’s death. They did not become an order of their own until about a year after the death of St John.
 
Hello,
ByzCath said:
Well now… the two greatest Carmelite mystics, St Teresa of Avlia and St John of the Cross were O.Carm. ;), as the O.C.D. was just a reform movement within the O.Carm. at the time of St Teresa’s death and then was a reformed province at the time of St John’s death. They did not become an order of their own until about a year after the death of St John.
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Hey, those two Saints are great enough to share. 🙂
 
Hello,

And, of course, I want to boast the excellence of the Discalced Carmelites - since I am a Discalced Carmelite at heart (it is very probable that I will become O.C.D.S in the future :gopray: ). But please don’t take my enthusiasm as a downplay of the O.Carm who are equally to be esteemed. 👍
 
hamburglar said:
Besides not wearing shoes, what are the differences between Discalced Carmelites and the regular Carmelites (Carmelites of the Ancient Observance)?
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Just one more side note, the official name of the O.Carm. is the Order of teh Brothers of the Blessed Virgin Mary of Mount Carmel.
BarbaraTherese said:
Thank you …one last question, do the O.Carm nuns vary their habit too from the OCD? I don’t know much about O.Carm at all really that I can recall, except reading O.Carm articles, and am presupposing that there are O.Carm nuns?..Barb:)
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Barb,
I do not know enough about the women’s groups to answer this, sorry. 🤷
 
We have a group of Discalced Carmelite Nuns in Dallas. They are totally cloistered. The TLM mass for the diocese is held at their chapel on Sundays and we have to be off the grounds by a certain time so they can use the chapel without breaking their vows. I heard them singing their noon-office prayers (Sext?) one time. It was beautiful, but also a little strange. It almost felt improper to hear them when they are forbidden to have any contact.

Does someone know how many Carmelites are cloistered and how many work in public ministries?

I’d heard that this Monastery was losing Nuns. I pray it’s not the case, but I wonder how the Carmelites (both Discalced and Ancient Observance) as a whole are doing?

thanks
 
Ben, if you’re referring to the nuns, that is hard to say, because while the nuns’ monasteries in both O.Carm. and O.C.D. are, broadly speaking, under the jurisdiction of the generalates of both orders’ male branches, all of them are autonomous, self governing units. Some are thriving, just as with the Poor Clares; others are not. While I don’t want to generalize, I believe that those monasteries which have opted to dump the habit tend to be aging, while the more traditional looking monasteries’ members seem, on average, younger. My opinion only!
 
I belong to the Order of Carmelites (O.Carm) Congregation called the Carmelite Sisters for the Aged and Infirm. We were founded by Mother Angeline Teresa, O.Carm in 1929. Our ministry is taking care of the Aged and Infirm in a nursing home setting. Our Motherhouse is located in Germantown, NY. Our facilities are operated by the Sisters together with lay employees. If you’re interested, you can visit our website at www.carmelitesisters.com to view the Carmelite habit we wear.🙂
 
BarbaraTherese said:
Thank you …one last question, do the O.Carm nuns vary their habit too from the OCD? I don’t know much about O.Carm at all really that I can recall, except reading O.Carm articles, and am presupposing that there are O.Carm nuns?..Barb:)
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There are some O.Carm. nuns in Wahpeton, ND. I met one of them when I visited my future Carmelite home (God-willing) and she was transferring there as she discovered her vocation was to be an active/contemplative and not cloistered. She was so sweet, too. She gave me a prayer from St. Therese that she used to pray for priests.

Here is their website:

fargodiocese.org/vocations/carmelmary/index.html

Their congregation is called the Carmel of Mary, and they belong to the O.Carm. or Carmelites of the Ancient Observance. 🙂
 
BenFischer said:
We have a group of Discalced Carmelite Nuns in Dallas. They are totally cloistered. The TLM mass for the diocese is held at their chapel on Sundays and we have to be off the grounds by a certain time so they can use the chapel without breaking their vows. I heard them singing their noon-office prayers (Sext?) one time. It was beautiful, but also a little strange. It almost felt improper to hear them when they are forbidden to have any contact.

Does someone know how many Carmelites are cloistered and how many work in public ministries?

I’d heard that this Monastery was losing Nuns. I pray it’s not the case, but I wonder how the Carmelites (both Discalced and Ancient Observance) as a whole are doing?

thanks
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The OCD Nuns in Dallas have been doing very well now with new vocations for the past few years, praise God! They have like 7 or 8 in the novitiate. They are definitely a beautiful community 🙂

carmelitenunsstjoseph.org/monastery.htm
 
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