Carmelites - O.C.D.S

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Hello,

Are there any Secular Discalced Carmelites here? I have read what the requirements for admission and formation are on the websites, but I am looking for a first hand account. What is is like to go through the formation process? What is is like to be a Secular Carmelite? How is it better than being a laymen?
 
Hello,

Are there any Secular Discalced Carmelites here? I have read what the requirements for admission and formation are on the websites, but I am looking for a first hand account. What is is like to go through the formation process? What is is like to be a Secular Carmelite? How is it better than being a laymen?
JMJ, there are several OCDS members who post here, so I hope we can help you discern what may be a call to join us. I’ve been a member for thirty years; my initial experience was one of “coming home” and it has remained such through the years. The Formation process isn’t burdensome, especially if you find that what you see and hear corresponds to what something deep in your heart - a resonance that speaks to you of a truth of who you are. One doesn’t enter the Order as a Carmelite in “full-bloom”, but gradually - if this IS one’s vocation - one sees that the Formation process is transforming you to your truer self AND giving you the “tools” to more fully live your life as a husband, wife, mother, father, sister, brother, friend and co-worker. It is, however, not “better than being a laymen”, since we remain as fully a layman or laywoman as we were before entering the Order.

Also, remember that the Formation Program only begins after a year of Aspirancy during which you will learn the “basics” of what being an OCDS means; you will learn something of the Constitions of the OCDS, the Divine Office, the history of the Order and an introduction to the writings of the Saints of the Order. During this year there will be continuing discernment on your part and on the part of the Officers of your Community/Group to see if this is what you are called to be - and this discernment continues for the formal Formation Program of five years.

Lastly, it is a joy to be a member - as a member with a vocation to any Secular/Third Order would say. The discipline of attending the monthly meeting, daily Mass (if possible), Morning and Evening Prayer, one-half hour of meditation, all become part of one’s life - sometimes with more ease than at other times, of course. 😉 But if this is what the Lord is calling you too, you will see that our obligations aren’t burdens, but opportunities for deeper intimacy with Our Lord under the mantle of Our Lady of Mount Carmel.

God bless you in your discernment!
 
JMJ,

I would echo some of what has already been posted…I had intial experience of “coming home” as well.

Being a member of a secular order is not any better than being a layperson, unless of course it is your calling and you feel more at ease. Much like being a priest or deacon, neither are better than the other, just different roles within the Church.

The time committment and community expectatations are a large part of being a secular discalced Carmelite in my opinion. Many devout Catholics and Christians may study Carmelite theology for years, but choose to do this on their own and feel no need to make religious promises or participate in a community as we do.

I have found the formation process to be very helpful and have enjoyed much of what we have studied so far over the last 3 years. I am also very blessed to be a part of a truly holy Carmelite community. I am inspired by them often, and this helps in my daily struggle to become a saint.

Blessings on your journey,
 
Hello,

Thanks for your replies. While it is true that I am still discerning, I have felt at home with the Carmelites for a number of years now. I am studying the Carmelite Saints (John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila, Therese of Lisieux - thanks I.C.S. Publications 🙂 ).

One of the things that I wanted to know is what sort of ceremonials take place in the formation process - i.e., being installed during a Mass, etc. Due to some health concerns, those sorts of things could be a little difficult for me.
 
JMJ,

All of the ceremonies within our community take place at our annual retreat together. It has never gotten more elaborate then those participating kneeling and candles being lit. However, I cannot speak for other communities. Although at each of our retreats there has been a Carmelite Friar, so hopefully there would be fairly consistent expectations across communities who dutifully follow the Order’s constitutions.

Blessings-
 
Hello,

Thanks for your replies. While it is true that I am still discerning, I have felt at home with the Carmelites for a number of years now. I am studying the Carmelite Saints (John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila, Therese of Lisieux - thanks I.C.S. Publications 🙂 ).

One of the things that I wanted to know is what sort of ceremonials take place in the formation process - i.e., being installed during a Mass, etc. Due to some health concerns, those sorts of things could be a little difficult for me.
JMJ, the clothing ceremony wherein the candidate is clothed with the Scapular and officially enters in the period of Formation is a simple one, usually done before the Mass of the Community or at the end of the Communty’s monthly meeting. It is a simple ceremony which entails nothing more than the priest’s blessing and the candidate voicing his or her desire to enter into Formation and the Scapular being placed on you.

The ceremony for Temporary or Definitive Promises takes place during Mass and is a prayer dialogue between the priest, the candidate(s) and the Community. There is nothing that would be a burden for someone with any sort of physical handicap - and I’m sure arrangements could be made if you think there would be for you personally. Are you perhaps concerned about incense being used during the ceremonies? If so, I’ve never seen it used - only Holy Water. I hope this alleviates your concern and allows you to investigate a possible vocation further. 🙂
 
I have been contemplating joining the local secular third order, the discalced Carmelites. I don’t think there’s many around here and I think the great majority are elderly.
Currently, I’m a member of a prayer group, the IIPG, which follows the requests of Our Lady of Medjugorje, which has morning consecretion prayers, chaplet, and the complete rosaries each day, which is hard for a working person with a family (my adult son and his wife and child live with me). But, of course, life changes forever when you’re involved in prayer like this, and I don’t know if I could ever go back to not praying like I do (or get to, as some days seem).
Of course, what I’d really like to do is join a contemplative order, but I find myself too old, and too weighed down with responsibilities (son and daughter-in-law in college and having made that decision late). I feel spiritually trapped on the one hand and, inexplicably, exactly where I’m supposed to be, on the other. So in my state, I’m looking for something that will help give me direction to a deeper (unlimited depth) prayer life and faith.
I think I know what I want to do. Frankly, I’ve been struggling a LOT with what God does want or doesn’t want me to do. I’m a convert and converted after I was married and a mother. There are no convents or monestaries here or very near here (i.e., there’s a lot I don’t know). How do I know I’m doing this for God…or for me? Is there a litmus test? When I found out there was a group here, I immediately began to doubt myself and my motives. And I’ve had nothing but trouble since.
I’ve been praying to St. Therese of Lisieux. I’ve been talkin’ to her a lot, but…nothing. No answer. No sign. No help.
If I asked you (anyone out there with time to answer that belongs to a third order) why you joined a third order, but didn’t join a convent/monestery, could you tell me?
Also, I know what a young person is giving up to become a contemplative nun (in the secular sense) and a sense of what she’s getting (everything). What is a secular person giving up and getting when they join a third order?
I wanted to do this and I’ve wanted this for a long time. Why when it becomes possible do I out of the blue question and pull away? I don’t understand myself, my actions, or what the heck I’m doing. Am I taking this too seriously? How can that be?
annie
 
. . .
If I asked you (anyone out there with time to answer that belongs to a third order) why you joined a third order, but didn’t join a convent/monestery, could you tell me? . . .
Well, it’s a bit difficult to do when one is already married. 😉 I’d always known that I was called to be married and have children and so never considered becoming a religious sister or a monastic. The Secular Discalced Carmelites came on the horizon for me after a number of years of marriage and two children. As with many - perhaps most - Catholics, I’d never heard of “Third Orders” before a friend mentioned her investigation of the OCDS. Desiring something “more”, I, too, sought this out.

What I saw and heard very much echoed what I’d been desiring in my heart for some time regarding a call to tend to contemplative prayer. Discovering St. Teresa, St. John of the Cross and all our other Saints and Blesseds was a true joy. In St. John of the Cross, especially, I found a sure guide and father on the way of perfection. I saw, too, that within the framework of the OCDS Rule and Constitutions was the formation that I needed instead of drifting along following my own religious whimsy. I loved, too, the over-arching Marian aspect of the vocation which is so strong while not being simply “devotional”
Also, I know what a young person is giving up to become a contemplative nun (in the secular sense) and a sense of what she’s getting (everything). What is a secular person giving up and getting when they join a third order?
What a secular person is giving up is what I mentioned above about submitting to the discipline that the Order presents for those who would be faithful members. One is relinquishing a certain possibility there or there for the definite probability here of being more true to God’s desire for one. Now one is deciding to make a committment to all that the OCDS Constitutions entail, knowing that for oneself this is how best to be transformed to more closely image Christ. For a member of another Order, that Rule is what bests suits the formation of that individual.
I wanted to do this and I’ve wanted this for a long time. Why when it becomes possible do I out of the blue question and pull away? I don’t understand myself, my actions, or what the heck I’m doing. Am I taking this too seriously? How can that be?
Annie, have you approached the local OCDS Community about attending a meeting as a Guest? If not, then attending a meeting might help you see more clearly if this is something you do want to pursue. If you have attended a meeting, then perhaps it is the fear of making a decision that you may come to regret when you think you can’t live up to what is expected of the members. But, remember, one doesn’t come into any Order as a full-blown Carmelite, Benedictine, Dominican, etc.; but there is an ongoing discernment process until one makes the Definitive Promise after a period of years of Formation. If this is what one is called to, then clarity will come and one will see that there is a correspondence within one’s heart to what sees, hears and experiences within the Community and that overflows into one’s daily life lived in fidelity to the Rule and Constitutions outside of the meeting time.
 
FCEGM:

I actually found out about them through a stewardship fair held at the parish where I go for Adoration every Sunday. I called and she invited me, but said 3 people were being “clothed” at the next meeting. I wasn’t sure what this entailed and I didn’t want to be a distraction or butt in on a day that must be so important for the new…what are they called? Sisters, even though they’re secular?
Tomorrow is the day they meet and I guess I’ll show up.
Since I have been married, had a kid, and had post-divorce relationships, all of which served only to firmly point me towards God, and away from this world.
So…I basically took a vow that I would enter into no new relationships, and that I would live simply. I moved upstairs and gave my son and his family the rest of m house. I sleep on a pad on the floor. I’m working on no tv, but already limit what I view and have for years.
But there is a lot I don’t know.
Okay…I just made up my mind. I’m going.
Thanks for being there fo rme! Your response to my email really helped, more than you can know.
annie
 
FCEGM:

. . . .Okay…I just made up my mind. I’m going.
Thanks for being there fo rme! Your response to my email really helped, more than you can know.
annie
I’m glad you’ve decided to go to the meeting, Annie. 👍 As the Lord said, “Come and see.” 🙂 I hope you’ll let us know your impressions from your first visit.
 
Hello carmelite friends…

I am not a secular, yet. I am working on organizing a group in my area. I am not interested in being a chapter right away. I do have a professed person to teach us.

What I am looking for is this: My priest would like for me to put an announcement in the bulletin along with a brochure that further explains the secular carmelite order. So I am looking for a national or regional brochure that I can use to put in the bulletin as well.

If you have one, could you send me a pm?

Thanks!!!
Jen
 
Hello,
It is a simple ceremony which entails nothing more than the priest’s blessing and the candidate voicing his or her desire to enter into Formation and the Scapular being placed on you.
Is this true even if I have already been enrolled in the Confraternity of the Brown Scapular and wear it constantly?

Also, what kind of a time and study investment is there for joining? Does it require several hours of study a plus several more hours of prayer? I currently have only enough time for a daily Rosary and occasionally Lauds and Vespers.

I think I know the answer to this question (I feel it is a no-brainer, but my brain is so busy on other multitasks that it can’t spend the process time to compute even simple equations sometimes – I’m a Computer Science major, in case you can’t tell ;)):

Should I contact the local OCDS people? I am in Northeast Ohio - Diocese of Youngstown. I think this U.S.A. Cincinnati - http://cincicarm.org/ is the local regional group. Is that correct?
 
I am an OCDS aspirant, soon to make temporary promises. The required prayers are morning and evening prayers from Liturgy of the Hours, thirty minutes of contemplative prayer, a daily Rosary or some form of prayer in honor of our Blessed Mother. Daily Mass is encouraged but it is understood that some people due to work or other obligations are unable to do this. A certain amount of study and Bible reading is required but I haven’t found it to be overly burdensome.
By all means contact the local organization and they can probably put you in touch with a group near you. I know that I have found my home with the OCDS!
 
Annie asked:
If I asked you (anyone out there with time to answer that belongs to a third order) why you joined a third order, but didn’t join a convent/monestery, could you tell me?
Also, I know what a young person is giving up to become a contemplative nun (in the secular sense) and a sense of what she’s getting (everything). What is a secular person giving up and getting when they join a third order?
I wanted to do this and I’ve wanted this for a long time. Why when it becomes possible do I out of the blue question and pull away? I don’t understand myself, my actions, or what the heck I’m doing. Am I taking this too seriously? How can that be?
Rather than telling my story from scratch, here is a portion of my very fist post to Catholic Answers, written in December last year in the “Baptism in the Spirit and Contemplation” thread:
Briefly, I am a secular Carmelite and am happy to see that there are other fellow-OCDS members here. I am also a product of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, first having gotten involved in the early seventies, not very long after its inception. However, I have long since not been actively involved in the movement for reasons I will not get into now. Let me just say that my long Christian pilgrimage has eventually led me into the Carmelite Order.
Due to my own life’s experiences at a certain stage, I began reading The Collected Works of St John of the Cross. Oddly, or perhaps not so oddly, I had little difficulty in understanding him. He served as a spiritual director, as it were, for me during a time of great trial in my life. His writings clarified a lot of what I was then experiencing first-hand. They reassured me that I wasn’t simply going insane. They made sense of the seemingly senseless things that were befalling me, and helped me come to terms with them even as I was experiencing them. It was not long after I had largely finished reading his works for the first time that I entered the order which he co-founded.
I realize that lots of people are intimidated by St John of the Cross, including many Carmelites, as someone else mentioned. Let me recommend a book by Iain Matthew, a Discalced Carmelite priest, called “The Impact of God” subtitled “Soundings from St John of the Cross” which may serve as a useful guide to anyone interested in getting past their apprehensions about reading St John’s works. It is published by Hodder & Stoughton, London, 1995 and may be out of print, but a determined search on the internet may yield some used copies.
And to those who may have little or no use for contemplative prayer, these words from the Mystical Doctor may help them to reconsider:
"You will not take from me, my God, what you once gave me in your only Son, Jesus Christ, in whom you gave me all I desire. Hence I rejoice that if I wait for you, you will not delay.
"With what procrastinations do you wait, since from this very moment you can love God in your heart?
“Mine are the heavens and mine is the earth. Mine are the nations, the just are mine, and mine the sinners. The angels are mine, and the Mother of God, and all things are mine; and God himself is mine and for me, because Christ is mine and all for me. What do you ask, then, and seek, my soul? Yours is all of this, and all is for you. Do not engage yourself in something less or pay heed to the crumbs that fall from your Father’s table. Go forth and exult in your Glory! Hide yourself in it and rejoice, and you will obtain the supplications of your heart.”
Not content with crumbs,
Gabrielis, OCDS
Currently there seems to be a lot of Carmelite-related threads going on here. Those interested may also want to check out the “Carmelites, please respond” thread and others which deal with the very questions some folks have raised in this thread. BTW, Annie, all your doubts are normal. St Teresa of Jesus herself struggled with many of them, as a reading of any of her works will attest. In fact, what you express above reminds me of some of the things she says. If I may be so bold, I’d almost say that this could well indicate a sign of your calling to a Carmelite vocation.

One last word, it may not be so much a question of what one is “giving up or getting,” though these do come into play, but more of simply giving: “What return can I make to the Lord for all He’s given me?”
 
Hello,

Originally Posted by FCEGM
It is a simple ceremony which entails nothing more than the priest’s blessing and the candidate voicing his or her desire to enter into Formation and the Scapular being placed on you.

Is this true even if I have already been enrolled in the Confraternity of the Brown Scapular and wear it constantly?
Hi, JMJ! 🙂

Yes, membership in the Confraternity is entirely different from membership in the Order. The Clothing Ceremony marks one’s official entrance into the Aspirancy Program of one’s OCDS Community.
Also, what kind of a time and study investment is there for joining? Does it require several hours of study a plus several more hours of prayer? I currently have only enough time for a daily Rosary and occasionally Lauds and Vespers.
We are required to pray Morning Prayer (Lauds) and Evening Prayer (Vespers) daily; to attend Daily Mass if possible; to have at least 1/2 hour of mental prayer daily, and to offer daily some sort of honor to the Blessed Virgin, whether a rosary or any other prayer of one’s choosing.

There will also be required reading; each Province has similar guidelines for how one’s study progresses over the years of Aspirancy in preparation for the First Promise and then in preparation for the Definitive Promise, but within each Community or Recognized Group there will be differences as to what is studied when. Of course the essentials will all be read: The Way of Perfection, The Interior Castle, St. Teresa’s autobiography, the works of St. John of the Cross.
I think I know the answer to this question (I feel it is a no-brainer, but my brain is so busy on other multitasks that it can’t spend the process time to compute even simple equations sometimes – I’m a Computer Science major, in case you can’t tell ):
Should I contact the local OCDS people? I am in Northeast Ohio - Diocese of Youngstown. I think this U.S.A. Cincinnati - cincicarm.org/ is the local regional group. Is that correct?
🙂 There may be other Communities in your area, but do contact the Cincinnati Community; they can tell you if there is another Community closer for you. And if you look at the Spiritual Formation section at the site you will see the course of study for the Community pretty well laid out for you.

God bless you in your discernment!
 
Hi Francis!

After putting and ad in my parish bulletin, we are beginning an unofficial study group. We are waiting until April for provisions on our region to allow for the beginning of carmelite study groups. Yeah! We hope to be an official OCDS group in the future.

JMJ,
There is a Discalced Carmel group in Akron now. They have just moved from Cleveland. They meet the 1st Sunday in Akron from 1-4. If you want the exact location, just ask.

Peace,
Jen
 
Hi Francis!

After putting and ad in my parish bulletin, we are beginning an unofficial study group. We are waiting until April for provisions on our region to allow for the beginning of carmelite study groups. Yeah! We hope to be an official OCDS group in the future.
. . .
Hi, Jen! That’s wonderful news. 👍 I was given permission to start a Recognized Group which began meeting in October and is going very well. We are especially blessed with our Spiritual Assistant (a diocesan priest) who has a great appreciation for Carmel and its spirituality.

God bless you and your group!
 
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