Carnivores in the Garden of Eden

[Digitonomy]

A quasi-vegetarian pointed out that Adam and Eve weren’t eating the cute little critters in the Garden of Eden. That’s my recollection as well. Did God punish Adam and Eve by making them eat bacon when they were kicked out of the garden? When does the first recorded meal involving meat occur?

 

[Omyo12]

A quasi-vegetarian pointed out that Adam and Eve weren’t eating the cute little critters in the Garden of Eden. That’s my recollection as well. Did God punish Adam and Eve by making them eat bacon when they were kicked out of the garden? When does the first recorded meal involving meat occur?

Literal Interpretation of Genesis 1-11:
After the Noah’s Flood

Genesis 9:3 (RSV-2CE)
Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; and as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.

Adam and Eve never ate meat.
Abel just herded sheep for clothes and sacrifice I suppose…

Everyone was a vegan until Noah.

Metaphorical Interpretation of Genesis 1-11:
Well, being metaphorical, the answer doesn’t matter… lol

 

[Peter_Dawson]

I think that the business about eating meat in the book of Genesis is a foreshadowing of “eating meat” – eating the flesh of Jesus – in the Eucharist. The “Old Testament Church,” Judaism, only had foreshadowings, but no Eucharist. In the New Testament Church, the Roman Catholic Church, we eat the flesh of Jesus and drink his blood.

 

[4elise]

We’ve a group here on Catholic Answers - Catholic Vegetarians and Vegans for anyone who may want to learn more about this option today.

Many Catholics (myself included) have reflected that this choice is a reflection of our faith given the way the vast majority of beef, poultry, fish, dairy and eggs are currently raised and the impact on the environment of the large CAFO’s - sometimes called factory farms - speaking for myself this choice really resonates with my faith and understanding of Catholic Social Teaching -

This topic has engendered some very strong and less than charitable conversations in the past – So – I offer this respectfully — and invite anyone interested in learning more to join us over the Catholic Vegetarian and Vegan group! Peace

 

[grannymh]

I think that the business about eating meat in the book of Genesis is a foreshadowing of “eating meat” – eating the flesh of Jesus – in the Eucharist. The “Old Testament Church,” Judaism, only had foreshadowings, but no Eucharist. In the New Testament Church, the Roman Catholic Church, we eat the flesh of Jesus and drink his blood.

This sounds misleading. It must be a personal opinion. It seems to ignore that Jesus Christ is present under the sacred signs of bread and wine. It certainly falls far short than the true meaning of the Catholic Eucharist

In the Catholic Eucharist, we receive the Divine Risen Body of Jesus, true God and true man. Jesus Christ, Who loves us with all His being, is sacramentally, substantially present.

 

[Peter_Dawson]

This sounds misleading. It must be a personal opinion. It seems to ignore that Jesus Christ is present under the sacred signs of bread and wine. It certainly falls far short than the true meaning of the Catholic Eucharist

In the Catholic Eucharist, we receive the Divine Risen Body of Jesus, true God and true man. Jesus Christ, Who loves us with all His being, is sacramentally, substantially present.

Hi, friend.

Note well: Everything added by me in this thread is my opinion. Even quotations and cites are my opinion, because my use of the third party material may not be correct.

That being said…

One of the things Scripture frequently does, when it presents these foreshadowings of eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Christ, is make use of something called Identification by Juxtaposition.

For example, why does Christ ride an a** into Jerusalem at the time of His messianic entry?

Answer: Because the a** is the Exodus 13:13 example of the first-born male who must die. Christ is sitting ON the animal because we are being told, “Christ is the same as the a**. He is the first born male who must die.”

Now, flip over to the story of Jacob’s DEeception, in Genesis 27. There we see Jacob with sacrificed kid skin on his neck and sacrificed kid skin on his hands, bringing kid meat stew to his father for blessing.

That is a picture of Jesus offering His Own sacrificed meat to His Father in Heaven, for blessing for the world.

Now, here is the Identification by Juxtaposition: Jacob ALSO brings bread and wine to his father. Genesis 27:17, 25. We are being told, “The bread and wine are the SAME THING as the sacrificed flesh of Christ.” That’s why the bread and wine are in the story.

You can see the same thing in other OT stories.

And, when Christ is born, when we see Him wrapped in swaddling clothes like a cadaver wrapped in a shroud and lying in a feeding trough, so that we are looking at a picture of dead Christ being served as food, where does this take place?

In BETHLEHEM, which means “House of Bread.”

So, the Bible takes care of your concerns some of the time.

But it doesn’t always give in to your demands that bread be constantly brought up.

Sometimes, almighty God just wants to tell us, “You will be eating My Sons flesh, Granny.”

 

[4elise]

Hi, friend.

Note well: Everything added by me in this thread is my opinion. Even quotations and cites are my opinion, because my use of the third party material may not be correct.

That being said…

One of the things Scripture frequently does, when it presents these foreshadowings of eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Christ, is make use of something called Identification by Juxtaposition.

For example, why does Christ ride an a** into Jerusalem at the time of His messianic entry?

Answer: Because the a** is the Exodus 13:13 example of the first-born male who must die. Christ is sitting ON the animal because we are being told, “Christ is the same as the a**. He is the first born male who must die.”

Now, flip over to the story of Jacob’s DEeception, in Genesis 27. There we see Jacob with sacrificed kid skin on his neck and sacrificed kid skin on his hands, bringing kid meat stew to his father for blessing.

That is a picture of Jesus offering His Own sacrificed meat to His Father in Heaven, for blessing for the world.

Now, here is the Identification by Juxtaposition: Jacob ALSO brings bread and wine to his father. Genesis 27:17, 25. We are being told, “The bread and wine are the SAME THING as the sacrificed flesh of Christ.” That’s why the bread and wine are in the story.

You can see the same thing in other OT stories.

And, when Christ is born, when we see Him wrapped in swaddling clothes like a cadaver wrapped in a shroud and lying in a feeding trough, so that we are looking at a picture of dead Christ being served as food, where does this take place?

In BETHLEHEM, which means “House of Bread.”

So, the Bible takes care of your concerns some of the time.

But it doesn’t always give in to your demands that bread be constantly brought up.

Sometimes, almighty God just wants to tell us, “You will be eating My Sons flesh, Granny.”

I love this… I took a course (seems like a million years ago) Salvation History - and the teacher did just this -connecting the old with the new - when I see these connections it is like a light that goes so far back can be seen to be connected to the candle of faith I hold today… blessings!

 

[grannymh]

I love this… I took a course (seems like a million years ago) Salvation History - and the teacher did just this -connecting the old with the new - when I see these connections it is like a light that goes so far back can be seen to be connected to the candle of faith I hold today… blessings!

Connecting the old with the new is inspiring. The Eucharist is the heart beat of Catholicism.

Christ chose to be substantially present under the outward appearances or signs of bread, the Sacred Host. The inner being, the substance which makes bread to be bread, has been changed into the sacramentally substantial presence of Jesus, true God and true man. The outward appearances of bread, the Sacred Host, that which we see and taste, remain.

 

[NotWorthy]

I love this… I took a course (seems like a million years ago) Salvation History - and the teacher did just this -connecting the old with the new - when I see these connections it is like a light that goes so far back can be seen to be connected to the candle of faith I hold today… blessings!

Just be careful that some people do not “run amok” with their Typology. For instance, the example of Jesus (“the Son of David”) riding on an A** into Jerusalem is taught by the Church Fathers as being pre-figured by Solomon, the OT son of David, who rode into Jerusalem on an a** to receive his anointing as King. If you recall, Jesus was anointed King in Jerusalem, but not by the throngs laying palm branches, but by His Passion on the Cross.

So, I would look rather closely at OT Typology and look to what the Church Fathers taught. People can use Typology for their own reasons. Just look at our Christian Brothers who use Typology to claim the Church of Rome is the city on 7 hills that is destroyed in Revelation.

 

[4elise]

Just be careful that some people do not “run amok” with their Typology. For instance, the example of Jesus (“the Son of David”) riding on an A** into Jerusalem is taught by the Church Fathers as being pre-figured by Solomon, the OT son of David, who rode into Jerusalem on an a** to receive his anointing as King. If you recall, Jesus was anointed King in Jerusalem, but not by the throngs laying palm branches, but by His Passion on the Cross.

So, I would look rather closely at OT Typology and look to what the Church Fathers taught. People can use Typology for their own reasons. Just look at our Christian Brothers who use Typology to claim the Church of Rome is the city on 7 hills that is destroyed in Revelation.

you are certainly right! ----
We are so blessed aren’t we!

 

[4elise]

Connecting the old with the new is inspiring. The Eucharist is the heart beat of Catholicism.

Christ chose to be substantially present under the outward appearances or signs of bread, the Sacred Host. The inner being, the substance which makes bread to be bread, has been changed into the sacramentally substantial presence of Jesus, true God and true man. The outward appearances of bread, the Sacred Host, that which we see and taste, remain.

And why so often I can approach the Eucharist with a heart so full of gratitude that it can be overwhelming! Wishing us all the joy of the Risen Lord today!

 

[Peter_Dawson]

I love this… I took a course (seems like a million years ago) Salvation History - and the teacher did just this -connecting the old with the new - when I see these connections it is like a light that goes so far back can be seen to be connected to the candle of faith I hold today… blessings!

Thank you, Elise. It is beautiful, isn’t it?

 

[4elise]

Thank you, Elise. It is beautiful, isn’t it?

It just fills me with an indescribable joy!

 

[Peter_Dawson]

Just be careful that some people do not “run amok” with their Typology. For instance, the example of Jesus (“the Son of David”) riding on an A** into Jerusalem is taught by the Church Fathers as being pre-figured by Solomon, the OT son of David, who rode into Jerusalem on an a** to receive his anointing as King. If you recall, Jesus was anointed King in Jerusalem, but not by the throngs laying palm branches, but by His Passion on the Cross.

So, I would look rather closely at OT Typology and look to what the Church Fathers taught. People can use Typology for their own reasons. Just look at our Christian Brothers who use Typology to claim the Church of Rome is the city on 7 hills that is destroyed in Revelation.

You are so full of caution, friend, that one apprehends that the baby has already been tossed out with the bathwater.

Typology is probably the major component of OT Scripture. It is not primarily a thing subject to abuse.

Primarily, it is why the OT exists.

An OT character who represents Christ typologically never does so wholesomely. Typically, he only represents Christ in a component of Christ’s story.

David’s evil son Absalom also rides a mule (like Christ) to his death (like Christ) prededed by his hair being tangled in branches (the crown of thorns) in a tree (the cross) where he is stabbed by a soldier with a spear (like Christ) and then buried under rock (like Christ) after someone betrays him (like Judas) and that someone ultimately refuses the silver offered (like Judas).

That’s pretty good!

But does the entire life of Absalom match Christ’s? No.

But Absalom’s death is still typological.

So, please, only throw out the bathwater, noit the baby.

 

[NotWorthy]

You are so full of caution, friend, that one apprehends that the baby has already been tossed out with the bathwater.

Typology is probably the major component of OT Scripture. It is not primarily a thing subject to abuse.

Primarily, it is why the OT exists.

I wholeheartedly agree with your promise. Typology is a wonderful gift, and it so incredibly veiled the truth behind the Old Testament and many of its books. I never intended to imply that Typology is primarily a thing subject to abuse.

I’ve just seen so many of your examples come from so far out of left field, that you seem to be in the wrong ballpark.

An OT character who represents Christ typologically never does so wholesomely. Typically, he only represents Christ in a component of Christ’s story.

Again, I agree. All the OT Types fall short of their fulfilled arch-types in the NT.

David’s evil son Absalom also rides a mule (like Christ) to his death (like Christ) prededed by his hair being tangled in branches (the crown of thorns) in a tree (the cross) where he is stabbed by a soldier with a spear (like Christ) and then buried under rock (like Christ) after someone betrays him (like Judas) and that someone ultimately refuses the silver offered (like Judas).

That’s pretty good!

But does the entire life of Absalom match Christ’s? No.

But Absalom’s death is still typological.

So, please, only throw out the bathwater, noit the baby.

You are barking up the wrong tree if you think I’m against Typology, my friend.

Let me ask you, what do we learn from Absalom and his type?

I’m offering this answer, but I’d be willing to listen to yours. Instead of labeling him a type of Christ, I’d be more tempted to claim he is a type of the Beast in Revelation (who is a parody of Christ). The things you’ve described of Absalom, beginning (and including) his attempt to steal the throne that rightly belonged to David, reminds me more of Satan and his attempt to steal the Kingdom of this world.

 

[grannymh]

I wholeheartedly agree with your promise. Typology is a wonderful gift, and it so incredibly veiled the truth behind the Old Testament and many of its books. I never intended to imply that Typology is primarily a thing subject to abuse.

Chalk this statement up to a cranky granny. May I respectfully add that I have seen lots of really clever misuse of typology both in and out of the Eden Garden. Yes, I do need a Pepsi.

 

[Peter_Dawson]

Let me ask you, what do we learn from Absalom and his type?

That Christ is the Foreshadowed One who was “made…to be sin.”

 

[NotWorthy]

That Christ is the Foreshadowed One who was “made…to be sin.”

We get THAT… from Absalom?

What did you think of my analysis that Absalom is more a type of the beast who parodies the Lamb (in Revelation). It seems to me that this is what Absalom is.

 

[juliamajor]

We get THAT… from Absalom?

What did you think of my analysis that Absalom is more a type of the beast who parodies the Lamb (in Revelation). It seems to me that this is what Absalom is.

What we get from Absalom is the need for a good haircut!
The donkey/foal is the symbol of peace.horse is the symbol of war-like four Horseman. In some bizarro alternate world maybe the *** is a type of Jesus but not in the real world.

 

[Peter_Dawson]

We get THAT… from Absalom?

What did you think of my analysis that Absalom is more a type of the beast who parodies the Lamb (in Revelation). It seems to me that this is what Absalom is.

No. Way too complex. Typological word pictures aren’t that sophisticated.

I’ve study hundreds of word pictures in the Bible. They tend to orbit around certain themes.

One is to portray Christ with sin symbols. Again and again and again and again. Paul appears to have noticed the same thing, and so he became the one who proposed the solution – at 2 Corinthians 5:21.