Cartoons are bad but bombs are Ok?

[Donna_P]

**Depicting a likeness of the Prophet Mohammed is considered an unspeakable crime. Personally, I found it grossly distasteful. It made me wonder at the intelligence of the author and the publisher.

in Islam. However, driving a bomb laden automobile into a group of school children, to get at one American soldier, will get you a ticket to heaven with 70 virgins.

And we are the decadent infidels bereft of morality and common decency.

I truly don’t understand the Muslim Religion.
**

 

[Guar_Fan]

Donna P:

However, driving a bomb laden automobile into a group of school children, to get at one American soldier, will get you a ticket to heaven with 70 virgins.

And we are the decadent infidels bereft of morality and common decency.

I truly don’t understand the Muslim Religion.

I agree with your outrage. Not all Muslims have a good understanding of their religion, just as not all Christians have a good understanding of ours. Sometimes extremists come up with strange interpretations - such as killing doctors who perform abortions. It is wrong and is to be condemned by all true adherents of their faith.

 

[Donna_P]

Guar Fan:

I agree with your outrage. Not all Muslims have a good understanding of their religion, just as not all Christians have a good understanding of ours. Sometimes extremists come up with strange interpretations - such as killing doctors who perform abortions. It is wrong and is to be condemned by all true adherents of their faith.

I am continually amazed by the number of people who claim to be Muslim who kill for the smallest or largest slight. While you make a very good point about some very isolated cases in which some one claiming to be Catholic or Christian killed an abortion doctor - these cases are rare in comparison.

I am very glad to be Christian and Catholic. It is not always easy to follow Jesus and love on another.

In starting this thread I did not want to start any huge outrage but to bring up the point that Muslims seem to go to violence first and ask questions later - if at all.

At least we Christians have the power of prayer. And I urge all of you who are outraged by these violent attacks, to jump to your knees and pray. I truly don’t know another way to reach these people.

 

[luciph606]

Catholics in Rwanda murdered over 800,000 people

 

[BryPGuy89]

**Depicting a likeness of the Prophet Mohammed is considered an unspeakable crime. Personally, I found it grossly distasteful. It made me wonder at the intelligence of the author and the publisher.

in Islam. However, driving a bomb laden automobile into a group of school children, to get at one American soldier, will get you a ticket to heaven with 70 virgins.

And we are the decadent infidels bereft of morality and common decency.

I truly don’t understand the Muslim Religion.
**

You offend me and I’m not even muslim my friend. As anyone knowledgeable of the Islamic faith knows that violence and suicide bombings are against the Qur’an and teachings of that faith. I find it a very biased and ignorant thing to say and this one of the very reasons there is such problems between the West and the Middle East. I am offended time and again by people on this forum who comonly connect the Islamic faith with terrorism, exspecially when they think that the faith condones bombings and what not.

 

[shockerfan]

BryPGuy89:

You offend me and I’m not even muslim my friend. As anyone knowledgeable of the Islamic faith knows that violence and suicide bombings are against the Qur’an and teachings of that faith. I find it a very biased and ignorant thing to say and this one of the very reasons there is such problems between the West and the Middle East. I am offended time and again by people on this forum who comonly connect the Islamic faith with terrorism, exspecially when they think that the faith condones bombings and what not.

Just like “Christianity” comes in many forms (Catholics, Baptists, Greek Orthodox, etc), so does Islam. While I believe the vast majority of Muslims do not subscribe to the belief that killing innocent children via suicide bombing will get you to heaven, there are people within Islam who do believe this. I think your offense should be directed at them, and not the people who read the paper and see these terrorists kill in the name of Allah.

 

[Marquette]

BryPGuy89:

You offend me and I’m not even muslim my friend. As anyone knowledgeable of the Islamic faith knows that violence and suicide bombings are against the Qur’an and teachings of that faith. I find it a very biased and ignorant thing to say and this one of the very reasons there is such problems between the West and the Middle East. I am offended time and again by people on this forum who comonly connect the Islamic faith with terrorism, exspecially when they think that the faith condones bombings and what not.

I will quote John Hagee from his book Jerusalem Countdown, published by Frontline Publishing, 2006:

"Let’s turn our investigation toward American Islamics. Historian Daniel Pipes, writing for Commentary magazine’s Nov. 2001 issue, recorded the following:

“In June 1991, a convert to Islam, Siraj Wahaj, a recipient of the American Muslim community’s highest honors, had the privelege of becoming the first Muslim to deliver the daily prayer in the U.S. House of Representatives. On that occasion he recited from the Quran and appealed to the almighty to guide American leaders and to ‘grant them righteousness and wisdom.’”

“But the story about Siraj Whaj did not end there. A little over a year later, this same Muslim, addressing an audience of New Jersey Muslims, 'articulated a completely different message from his mild and moderate prayer given before the U.S. House. He said, ‘If only Muslims were more clever politically, they could TAKE OVER the United States and replace its constitutional government with a caliphate (Islamic leadership body). If we were united and strong, we would elect our own leader and give allegiance to him…Take my word, if the six or eight million Muslims in America unite, the country will come to us.’”

To further quote John Hagee: “Think about THAT when you hear a politician or talk show host on television jabbering about Islamic loyalty to America.”

So I submit to you, BryPGuy, if this is what the guy who was awarded the American Muslim’s highest honors has to say, WHAT QUARAN ARE THEY ALL READING??? Oh wait, he did say “more clever politically” I guess that isn’t violent. Never mind.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Depicting a likeness of the Prophet Mohammed is considered an unspeakable crime. Personally, I found it grossly distasteful. It made me wonder at the intelligence of the author and the publisher.

in Islam. However, driving a bomb laden automobile into a group of school children, to get at one American soldier, will get you a ticket to heaven with 70 virgins.

And we are the decadent infidels bereft of morality and common decency.

**I truly don’t understand the Muslim Religion. **

Bombing is one way - and a perfectly proper one - of waging jihad; and jihad is obligatory on Muslims​

Whereas cartoons are forbidden in themselves, and those featuring him, even more so.

I think that is, in essence, how many Muslims would answer your question. ##

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

BryPGuy89:

You offend me and I’m not even muslim my friend. As anyone knowledgeable of the Islamic faith knows that violence and suicide bombings are against the Qur’an and teachings of that faith. I find it a very biased and ignorant thing to say and this one of the very reasons there is such problems between the West and the Middle East. I am offended time and again by people on this forum who comonly connect the Islamic faith with terrorism, exspecially when they think that the faith condones bombings and what not.

That doctrine is held by many Muslims, nonetheless.​

It is neither ignorant nor biassed, but perfectly accurate, honest, well-informed, intelligent, prudent, and truthful to say that violence of certain sorts is in perfect accord with Islam, both as to its texts and its spirit.

How was Islam spread after Muhammad went to his infernal reward ? By peaceful preaching ? Think again: France, Spain, Hungary, Greece, Italy, the lands of Eastern Europe, have all at one time or another been attacked, threatened or occupied by the Mahometans. Don’t fancy that being in the USA gives immunity from Islam - unless it is withstood, resolutely, it will overcome us all.

How many cartoons of Muslim hatred for Israel, how many lying videos accusing Jews of using non-Jewish blood for their matzos, how much evidence of Muslim lying and forging of cartoons of their pseudoprophet to cause trouble in Denmark, how much evidence of Muslim complicity with Hitler, or how many riots and bombings and sermons preaching hatred of Jews and Christians does it take to open the eyes of those who say Islam is peaceful ? It is peaceful in the same sense as leprosy or AIDS - all are deadly, and no less deadly for being ignored.

No one is so useful to Islam as those who do not see the ugliness beneath its attractive mask - just as it was with Communism. or Nazism, or Maoism. Even now, these three regimes have theur dupes and apologists; so no wonder the Islamofascists have theirs. It would be amazing if they did not. It is a religion of blood, murder, lies, oppression, and death - what part has Christ in any of that ? If Islam were from Christ, it would not kill his followers. If it were in agreement with Him, it would not degrade women by condoning polygamy. If Muhammad were prompted by His Spirit, he would not teach in contradiction to Him.

Don’t blame others for not being as blissfully ignorant as some seem to choose to be ##

 

[Cyber_Knight]

To : BryPGuy89

Muslims killed and terrorized children in Beslan. Didnt you feel offended?

Muslims beheaded 3 non muslim girls just because they were not muslim. Didnt you feel offended?

Muslims cheering up on the street a minute after they found out WTC has been destroyed by the terrorists. Didnt you feel offended?

Muslims burned churches, closed down churches, attack people when do rosary prayer. Didnt you feel offended?

Muslims call us kafir, infidel, unbeliever, unclean, will go to hell and being hellfire’s wood. Didnt you feel offended?

Muslims go mad and become violent because the cartoons of their prophet while they keep their mouth shut when suicide bombers kill thousand of innocent around the world. Didnt you feel offended?

One thing that should offend you is the Quran itself not us.
Not all muslims are bad. Only those who terrorize and love to kill the infidels and suicide bombers are bad. Unfortunately, these terrorists are the real Islam. They follow the Quran accordingly. Its our duty to make the ‘good’ muslims see the light or else they are going to be the real ones.

To be politically correct is good. But its much better to be factually correct. I have no idea where you live, but you are becoming an ignorant person, when saying us ignorant about Islam.

The verses are clear as proof. The actions are cleas as evidence and I dont care if you believe Islam does not condone violance.

Be thankful if you live as majority. But be more thankful when you live as dhimi. That way you may know what Islamic teaching is all about…

 

[Booklover]

BryPGuy89:

You offend me and I’m not even muslim my friend. As anyone knowledgeable of the Islamic faith knows that violence and suicide bombings are against the Qur’an and teachings of that faith. I find it a very biased and ignorant thing to say and this one of the very reasons there is such problems between the West and the Middle East. I am offended time and again by people on this forum who comonly connect the Islamic faith with terrorism, exspecially when they think that the faith condones bombings and what not.

It seems to me that you’re very easily offended! If I were to say that devil worship is evil, would you be offended?:whacky:

Find out what the Quran really teaches!
QURAN
The source of hate, violence and Islamic terrorism.

 

[Reuben_J]

**Depicting a likeness of the Prophet Mohammed is considered an unspeakable crime. Personally, I found it grossly distasteful. It made me wonder at the intelligence of the author and the publisher.

in Islam. However, driving a bomb laden automobile into a group of school children, to get at one American soldier, will get you a ticket to heaven with 70 virgins.

And we are the decadent infidels bereft of morality and common decency.

I truly don’t understand the Muslim Religion.
**

He heh. The irony is, some Muslims are willing to kill to defend the honor of thier prophet who is supposed to preach peace, when drawn as cartoon.

But if insulting cartoons are made of Christians and Jews, they are alright. One may ask, where is the fair play?

But I think we should acknowledge also that there are many Muslims who are against the violent protests.

This is something we don’t understand in their mentality - their passionate reaction to the cartoon, and I’m willing to give them the benefit of doubt. But whatever it is, there is no justification at all to the destruction and the killings just because of a few cartoons.

 

[GD1960]

It is my understanding that these cartoons came about because a Danish writer of childrens book had written a childrens book about the prophet Muhammed and found he couldn’t find anyone to do illustrations for fear of muslim extremists.

The cartoons were in way of a protest that anyone should be frightened to draw illustrations of a supposidly holy man for the benefit of childrens education.

The response to these cartoons by many muslims around the world proved the point of these cartoons perfectly that the Islamic religeon has become a religeon of terror, fear and intollerance of of other peoples beliefs irrespective of the doctrine.

They are offended ? I am offended that Muslims who come and live in my country ( a christian country) can openly protest carrying banners calling for the anhailation of the western world, beheading of people who have done nothing more than exercise their right of self expression (something we value is this part of the world), masquarade as suicide bombers etc while some so called non muslims make appologies for them.

It comes as no surprise to me that these protesters dont blame the so called fundamentalists within their own religeon for blackening the good name of Islam which led to the cartoons instead they blame the west which they will always do whenever and wherever they can

Can you the imagine what would become of Christian protesters carrying banners of a similar nature against the murdering of school children in Russia ( to mention just one of the attrocities committed by these morons) in Tehran or Damascus, it doesn’t bear thinking about but if any one reading this has seen the sickening images posted on the internet of innocent people being beheaded you’ll have some idea.

Personally I am sick and tired of hearing them ranting and raving about their rights while trampling over everyone elses, if our way of life is so despicable to them why did they leave that utopia on earth, the land of enlightenment and peace (the muslim world) to come and live amongst us.

I understand that not all muslims are terrorists or extremists but I dont believe they are the minority they say they are

I’m not sure if the word fundamentalism is misused when describing these terrorists because if Islam is the peace loving, tolerant, non violent religeon they say it is then by definition fundamentalists would be peace loving ,tolerant and non violent people which definately isn’t the case, so either these people are completely out of line with the Quoran (in spite of the fact that every attrocity they commit is in the name of Islam) or Islam is fundamentaly false.

 

[selvaraj]

Reuben J:

He heh. The irony is, some Muslims are willing to kill to defend the honor of thier prophet who is supposed to preach peace, when drawn as cartoon.

But if insulting cartoons are made of Christians and Jews, they are alright. One may ask, where is the fair play?
.

Mother Mary with naked breasts.
In Brussels a young Muslim immigrant published a poster depicting the Virgin Mary with naked breasts. Though the picture has drawn some protest from Catholics (though not from Western embassies, nor from the bishops), this artist need not fear being murdered in the street. On the contrary, he is being subsidised by the Ministry for Culture.

brusselsjournal.com/node/287

In Christ,
selvaraj

 

[SAINThoodSEEKER]

shockerfan:

Just like “Christianity” comes in many forms (Catholics, Baptists, Greek Orthodox, etc), so does Islam. While I believe the vast majority of Muslims do not subscribe to the belief that killing innocent children via suicide bombing will get you to heaven, there are people within Islam who do believe this. I think your offense should be directed at them, and not the people who read the paper and see these terrorists kill in the name of Allah.

I also acknowledge that their are (some) liberal-moderate Muslims who aren’t driven to “the extreme”. HOWEVER, the fact is that 85% of Islam is that of the Sunni variation…and “the extremists” are actually the ones who practice according to the Qu’ran. The Qu’ran instructs the aggressive aquiring (through theft) of non-believer’s property, women, and children. Some Non-believers (athiests here) are to pay with their heads. Others…“people of the Book” (Christians and Jews) are to be forced into semi-servile status and be heavily taxed. All of this can be avoided, of course, if the non-believer converts. This has been the tool of Islamic expansion for 14 bloody centuries, unlike our Church Fathers, such as St. Paul, St. Augustine, St. Irenaeus of Lyons, etc. who have all preached souls into Truth.
Fact is, you can’t compare Muslims with Christians as far as Scripure goes. The various Christian sects (such as the Roman Catholics and Baptists) don’t agree on Scriptural interpretation. Most Protestants don’t believe that Scripture can be understood any way but literally, while we believe in Scripture and our Tradition. On the other hand, ALL Islamic sects and divisions derive their law and philosophy from the Qu’ran! This means that if any Muslim or Islamic group (no matter how “moderate” or “liberal”) claims that there is symbolism within the harsh texts of the various Surahs, then he/she/they ARE NOT following their faith and are not being consistant. All of Islam claims the Qu’ran to be the indefectable, perfect word of God almighty.

**
“Fight against those to whom the Scriptures were given as believe in neither God nor the last day, who do not forbid what God and his messenger have forbidden, and who do not embrace the true faith, until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued” (Surah 9:29).

Regarding pagans, the Quran says, “Slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful” (Surah 9:5). This amounts to giving pagans a convert-or-die choice.

“Believers, why is it that when you are told: ‘March in the cause of God,’ you linger slothfully in the land? Are you content with this life in preference to the life to come? . . . If you do not go to war, he [God] will punish you sternly, and will replace you by other men” (Surah 9:38-39).**

 

[pro_universal]

HOWEVER, the fact is that 85% of Islam is that of the Sunni variation…and “the extremists” are actually the ones who practice according to the Qu’ran. The Qu’ran instructs the aggressive aquiring (through theft) of non-believer’s property, women, and children. Some Non-believers (athiests here) are to pay with their heads. Others…“people of the Book” (Christians and Jews) are to be forced into semi-servile status and be heavily taxed

Literally every single point there you got wrong. There is no Sunni sect, of the major 4, that permits terrorism or the killing on non-combatants. The taxes they charged Christians and Jews were lower than what the Eastern Empire charged them, and they had more religious freedom than the Eastern rule had permitted. If you want to struggle against sin and evil in this world, start on your side of the fence. That’s Christianity, not “let’s blame all those people who don’t speak our language for every evil thing, and reimagine our history to be a sinless one in the process.”

Every single one of the Quranic quotes you posted is grossly out of context, as a quick turn to the actual book would tell you. You only need look one verse above and one verse below to see how silly it is to use those verses to bash the religion.

This kind of quoting and propagandizing is exactly how the “christian” radicals have demonized Catholics for 500 years…take a quote from a Pope here about Mary, a quote from the bible there about “call no one father”, and you have “proof positive” that Catholics don’t follow Jesus. It was wrong when it happened to us, and it is doubly wrong when we do it to others.

 

[Cyber_Knight]

pro_universal:

Literally every single point there you got wrong. There is no Sunni sect, of the major 4, that permits terrorism or the killing on non-combatants. The taxes they charged Christians and Jews were lower than what the Eastern Empire charged them, and they had more religious freedom than the Eastern rule had permitted. If you want to struggle against sin and evil in this world, start on your side of the fence. That’s Christianity, not “let’s blame all those people who don’t speak our language for every evil thing, and reimagine our history to be a sinless one in the process.”

Every single one of the Quranic quotes you posted is grossly out of context, as a quick turn to the actual book would tell you. You only need look one verse above and one verse below to see how silly it is to use those verses to bash the religion.

This kind of quoting and propagandizing is exactly how the “christian” radicals have demonized Catholics for 500 years…take a quote from a Pope here about Mary, a quote from the bible there about “call no one father”, and you have “proof positive” that Catholics don’t follow Jesus. It was wrong when it happened to us, and it is doubly wrong when we do it to others.

 

[SAINThoodSEEKER]

pro_universal:

Literally every single point there you got wrong. There is no Sunni sect, of the major 4, that permits terrorism or the killing on non-combatants. The taxes they charged Christians and Jews were lower than what the Eastern Empire charged them, and they had more religious freedom than the Eastern rule had permitted. If you want to struggle against sin and evil in this world, start on your side of the fence. That’s Christianity, not “let’s blame all those people who don’t speak our language for every evil thing, and reimagine our history to be a sinless one in the process.”

Every single one of the Quranic quotes you posted is grossly out of context, as a quick turn to the actual book would tell you. You only need look one verse above and one verse below to see how silly it is to use those verses to bash the religion.

This kind of quoting and propagandizing is exactly how the “christian” radicals have demonized Catholics for 500 years…take a quote from a Pope here about Mary, a quote from the bible there about “call no one father”, and you have “proof positive” that Catholics don’t follow Jesus. It was wrong when it happened to us, and it is doubly wrong when we do it to others.

I said nothing about “blaming those who don’t share in my particular culture (i.e. language, etc.)” …you actually put that part in quotes as if I said that or something. If I were doing this, then I would have to pick on every other culture on Earth…give me a break! I am talking RELIGION here. No room for the race or ethnic card with me. You had better bring more. Anyway, as I stated before, the Qu’ran claims itself to be the perfect word of God. It actually claims to prove itself valid. According to Muslim scholars, its teachings are correct because the Qu’ran says so…period. This circular reasoning gives no room for “context” or any other softening of the Islamic message. We in the West have, overtime, found it convenient to sugarcoat Islamic teachings. Most people (Catholics included) have known nothing of Muslim teachings or their history because of this. That all changed on 9/11. For the first time (despite the Iranian hostage crisis of the late 70’s), the whole world saw Islamic teachings put into practice. America finally got off its fat butt and noticed.
Look, the whole claim of Qu’ranic “symbolism” is totally ridiculous. Muslim scholars have tried to paint over the various instructions of Muhammed with a like claim. Even if the Qu’ran used symbolic language to teach its message, there would still be a morality (or lack there of) issue present. You see it is immoral to use immoral symbolism to give a teaching. Muhammed taught that Muslim men could and should indulge in the spoils of victory…including acquisition of wealth, women (up to 4 wives allowed…but endless amounts of “slave girls” allowed), children, etc. Where is the symbolism here? What could possibly be the “hidden meaning?” Even if there could be one, it is immoral to use immoral symbolism…the end does not justify the means. Would our Lord Jesus Christ EVER use immoral symbolism? Would he every…EVEN IF JUST SYMBOLICALLY…describe heaven as a “bedouin male’s dream full of high-bossomed maidens, young boys” (won’t go there!), and the like…very carnal indeed for such a holy heaven!
Yes, Islam does teach concepts of peace and the like…but only for “the believers” (i.e. Muslims and their converts). If anywhere in the Qu’ran, it issued good will to non-Muslims (which it sort of does by not issuing as harsh of a punishment to “the people of the Book”), then it would contradict itself by also calling for the *forceful *conversion of the whole world.

As far as your last paragraph, there isn’t a good comparision there. Protestant Christians can’t (or shouldn’t) give a case against our belief using the Bible for many reasons. The overall being that WE DON’T BELIEVE IN SOLA SCRIPTURA…we don’t claim to! With Islam, THEY CLAIM that the Qu’ran is the perfect, complete word of God. They have no tradition as we do. Protestants (nor any other group) can’t use the bible to challenge our faith. It is convincing to them, because they see the Bible as being the complete and total tool for salvation. On the other hand, We can use the Qu’ran to call Islamic faith into question because they see and use it as their complete teaching of their faith. This overall idea of Islam is the doorway to the many contradictions seen. May God bless all abundantly.

St. Hippolytus

“Only [God’s] Word is from himself and is therefore also God, becoming the substance of God” (Refutation of All Heresies 10:33 [A[/COLOR]

 

[pro_universal]

Most people (Catholics included) have known nothing of Muslim teachings or their history because of this. That all changed on 9/11. For the first time (despite the Iranian hostage crisis of the late 70’s), the whole world saw Islamic teachings put into practice. America finally got off its fat butt and noticed.

That is as false as claiming that the Holocaust was the product of “a long tradition of Christian teachings.” Osama and his sect have as little to do with traditional Islam as Jim Jones had to do with Christianity.

Even if the Qu’ran used symbolic language to teach its message, there would still be a morality (or lack there of) issue present.

Who said anything about symbolism? The Koran as interpreted literally by the vast majority of Muslims forbids killing innocent people. If you read it, it’s actually pretty plain in this regard…only people who make violence and break treaties may be attacked, and then, only until they lay down their arms. Their book is quite explicit, which makes me almost a hundred percent certain that people who say otherwise haven’t actually read it.

Muhammed taught that Muslim men could and should indulge in the spoils of victory…including acquisition of wealth, women (up to 4 wives allowed…but endless amounts of “slave girls” allowed), children, etc.

That’s quite compatible with Christian religious ideology up until the past century. I see no grounds for condemnation there that would not make us hypocrites.

If anywhere in the Qu’ran, it issued good will to non-Muslims (which it sort of does by not issuing as harsh of a punishment to “the people of the Book”), then it would contradict itself by also calling for the forceful conversion of the whole world.

There is not a single verse in the entire Muslim holy book that calls for forcible conversion. Not one.

It is convincing to them, because they see the Bible as being the complete and total tool for salvation.

As long as our claims about their religion are so totally inaccurate as to be laughable, they will believe nothing we say. Think about it: would you take seriously someone who attacked the bible by claiming that Jesus commanded that Christians kill all non Christians? I sure wouldn’t…because that person obviously wouldn’t have read the book. The same goes for Islam.

May God bless all abundantly.

Amen

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

pro_universal:

Who said anything about symbolism? The Koran as interpreted literally by the vast majority of Muslims forbids killing innocent people. If you read it, it’s actually pretty plain in this regard…only people who make violence and break treaties may be attacked, and then, only until they lay down their arms. Their book is quite explicit, which makes me almost a hundred percent certain that people who say otherwise haven’t actually read it.

Keyword there being “innocent”. Because Islam has no Magisterium, defining the term “innocent” is up to the individual Muslim.