Cassock Albs, Surplices, and all that

[RyanML]

A priest always wears the stole hanging down straight in front. He never wears it like a deacon, nor does he wear it crossed in front. Unless the Mass is celebrated in the Extraordinary Form a priest always vests as a priest, even if he is doing the deacon’s parts because a deacon isn’t there (and he’s still concelebrating)

Fr. David,

Can you explain why the placement of the stole changed from being crossed in the traditional rite to hanging straight in the new rite?

 

[BernadetteM]

I’m not sure how similar these would be:

In the “standard” Roman usage, the priest may wear the cope for the beginning of the Mass, if there is some ritual at the opening (as I said in the earlier post, this is prevalent at funerals, or if the rite of sprinkling is used, or similar situations too numerous to mention). However, the priest switches from cope to chasuble before the opening prayer. The alb/stole alone without chasuble or cope is never permitted for the main celebrant.

In the Anglican usage of the Church do you recall at what moment the switch is made?

[And so that readers here understand, the Anglican use Catholic form is a perfectly legitimate and completely Catholic “expression” (I’m searching for the right word there). This happens when a large number of Anglicans convert to Catholicism (sometimes entire parishes) and they are permitted to use a modified version of the Anglican ceremonies, but we must keep in mind that the priest himself must first be validly ordained by a Catholic bishop.]

Dear Fr. David,

If you go to Our Lady of the Atonement’s website (atonementonline.com) click on their blog and go to the bottom of the page, there is a large red square box, at the bottom of the box click on the part that says Our Lady of Atonement, San Antonio, Texas and the whole AU liturgy will come up. It shows where the priest changes. It is afer the Liturgy of the Word. I believe they deleted the sermon. There is a deacon and subdeacon that also helps celebrate the liturgy. Of course all Anglican Use priests are validly ordained and are part of the Pastoral Provision created by Pope John Paul II. Although the Canon of the Mass is like Rite I of the Latin Mass it is also almost identical to the Sarum Usage. Many parts of the liturgy are also very close in wording to the Sarum Usage. I went back and compared the two.

God Bless

Bernadette

 

[AJV]

Thanks. Can I assume then that the RGM governs vestments? If so, would the priest be required to wear an amice, as there is a specific vesting prayer for that purpose? Would a cassock-alb be permitted?

Yes, the amice is one of the vestments mentioned by the GIRM. I’ve seen it worn and not worn - the idea was that if the alb had a collar then there was no need for an amice. At the same time there are priests who have no clue how to wear one. I remember seeing a priest, for whom the vestments were laid out, and he didn’t wear one. Unfortunately for him, the alb was of the older deep-square neck style and with a grey shirt underneath and no chasuble, it looked awful.

The vesting prayers have somewhat of an ambiguous position. They are currently not printed in the missal - either the Missale Romanum, editio typica tertia (emendata) or the current official English translation found in the Sacramentary. However, in 1970, a set of vesting prayers were put out and printed by LEV with the usual prayers minus that of the maniple.

There is nothing preventing a cassock alb from being worn, as far as I can tell.

Even within the Anglican Communion, it just depends where you are and how high up the candle the church you’re attending is for rules about vesture. Many of the more ritualistic-oriented Anglican clergy and churches borrowed their 'rules from exiting Roman legislation at the time.

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

Dear Fr. David,

If you go to Our Lady of the Atonement’s website (atonementonline.com) click on their blog and go to the bottom of the page, there is a large red square box, at the bottom of the box click on the part that says Our Lady of Atonement, San Antonio, Texas and the whole AU liturgy will come up. It shows where the priest changes. It is afer the Liturgy of the Word. I believe they deleted the sermon. There is a deacon and subdeacon that also helps celebrate the liturgy. Of course all Anglican Use priests are validly ordained and are part of the Pastoral Provision created by Pope John Paul II. Although the Canon of the Mass is like Rite I of the Latin Mass it is also almost identical to the Sarum Usage. Many parts of the liturgy are also very close in wording to the Sarum Usage. I went back and compared the two.

Interesting comments on the Anglican Use rite. From what I recall, the ante-communion or liturgy of the word is based mainly on Rite 1 (in traditional language) of the 1979 Book of Common Prayer of the Episcopal Church. The general confession is also of ancient BCP origin (and who would like to change that!?). There is no general absolution, in keeping with RC practices, and the canon does not resemble any Anglican canon I know of, except in the broadest sense. One other question on that rite: I believe the Nicene Creed is in the “I believe” format, so the Anglican Use is actually ahead of changes forseen for the RC church in general.

There may be different Anglican Use rites based on the country in question.

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

There is nothing preventing a cassock alb from being worn, as far as I can tell.

Except good taste!

 

[FrDavid96]

Thanks. Can I assume then that the RGM governs vestments? If so, would the priest be required to wear an amice, as there is a specific vesting prayer for that purpose? Would a cassock-alb be permitted?

Yes, the GIRM governs vestments.

The amice is “optional.” If it’s not needed it isn’t required, but if it is needed it is required. If the collar or other street clothes show above the alb, it has to be worn. Yes, there is a vesting prayer for the amice. I have it on a card in the sacristy, but I can’t find it printed in the Sacramentary. I don’t know if anyone else has a reference to these.

The cassock itself is actually “street clothes” even though it can sometimes serve a liturgical purpose. For example, the rite of marriage outside of Mass lists cassock and surplice w/ stole as one of the vesting options. When this happens, the vestment is actually the surplice (which is itself simply a very short alb) worn over the street garb of the cassock.

A cassock may be worn under the vestments (under the alb), but it’s not required in the ordinary form (I don’t know if it is in the EF).

An alb has to be an alb. The Church has (essentially) said that nothing can replace the alb in *Redemptionis Sacramentum *
[126.] The abuse is reprobated whereby the sacred ministers celebrate Holy Mass or other rites without sacred vestments or with only a stole over the monastic cowl or the common habit of religious or ordinary clothes, contrary to the prescriptions of the liturgical books, even when there is only one minister participating.216 In order that such abuses be corrected as quickly as possible, Ordinaries should take care that in all churches and oratories subject to their jurisdiction there is present an adequate supply of liturgical vestments made in accordance with the norms.

In Catholic usage, there’s no such thing as a cassock-alb because a cassock is “street clothes” and there’s no mixing the two. However, if the designation “cassock alb” is nothing more than a marketing description, and it is in fact an alb, then there’s no reason why such a thing could not be worn.

I wonder if you might be thinking of the chasuble-alb (chasualb?) instead? There was a thread on this strange creature a while back. I think permission (ad experimentum) was granted for them to be used in parts of Europe, but as far as I know they’re no longer permitted.

 

[FrDavid96]

Fr. David,

Can you explain why the placement of the stole changed from being crossed in the traditional rite to hanging straight in the new rite?

I’d like to be able to, but I have no idea. Sorry.

 

[FrDavid96]

Dear Fr. David,

If you go to Our Lady of the Atonement’s website (atonementonline.com) click on their blog and go to the bottom of the page, there is a large red square box, at the bottom of the box click on the part that says Our Lady of Atonement, San Antonio, Texas and the whole AU liturgy will come up. It shows where the priest changes. It is afer the Liturgy of the Word. I believe they deleted the sermon. There is a deacon and subdeacon that also helps celebrate the liturgy. Of course all Anglican Use priests are validly ordained and are part of the Pastoral Provision created by Pope John Paul II. Although the Canon of the Mass is like Rite I of the Latin Mass it is also almost identical to the Sarum Usage. Many parts of the liturgy are also very close in wording to the Sarum Usage. I went back and compared the two.

God Bless

Bernadette

Thanks for the info. I’ve never personally had the opportunity to experience this Mass, but I hope to someday.

 

[BernadetteM]

Interesting comments on the Anglican Use rite. From what I recall, the ante-communion or liturgy of the word is based mainly on Rite 1 (in traditional language) of the 1979 Book of Common Prayer of the Episcopal Church. The general confession is also of ancient BCP origin (and who would like to change that!?). There is no general absolution, in keeping with RC practices, and the canon does not resemble any Anglican canon I know of, except in the broadest sense. One other question on that rite: I believe the Nicene Creed is in the “I believe” format, so the Anglican Use is actually ahead of changes forseen for the RC church in general.

There may be different Anglican Use rites based on the country in question.

Usbek de Perse,

Yes there are some responses that come from the 1979 BCP, of course there is much that was retained from the 1928 BCP, i.e., Prayer of Humble Access, Gereral Confession and the Thanksgiving. But if you look at the Sarum Usage there is much of that in the liturgy, some of the wording is a little different, but the context is the same. From what I saw the Latin Canon Eucharistic Prayer I is almost the same as the Sarum Use. I did compare it to the 1979 BCP too.

As I recall after Rome changed the liturgy, the Episcopal church also made some of the same changes, as I have heard the Lutherans did too. The Liturgy of the Word is how I recall it in my former Anglo Catholic parish. We used the Anglican Missal. Maybe because I belonged to an Anglo Catholic parish for so long I am not hung up on the 1928 BCP or the 1979 BCP. We had so much more in the liturgy that is not in these liturgies.

The parts that are to me very Anglican as I mentioned above are important to my Anglican heritage, but feel the Canon is much more complete in the AU liturgy.

The Pastoral Provision accepted what Rome offered in the Book of Divine Worship. There could be changes to the other rites in the BDW sometime in the future.

I have the video of Our Lady of Atonement’s Mass, which is old and hopefully they will make a new one. I felt very comfortable as a former Episcopalian with the Liturgy. They use the older hymnal. Being a former Episcopalian I know that it difficult to please everyone. The AU is only for the US at this time.

If you watch the video you will see that they use both Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit as the case may be.

I am so much at peace being a Catholic and feel for Anglicans right now who aren’t sure what to do. I might never live in an area with the AU Mass, but my parish is very traditional and we sing the same hymns I did as an Episcopalian (Anglo Catholic).

I will always miss the “Thees and Thous”, but for me the Catholic Church is Truth and that is more important than words.

God Bless

Bernadette

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

The cassock alb is marketed by companies such as CM Almy. They are typically made of a slightly thicker fabric, which makes them suitable when wearing them over street clothes with no cassock. With thinner albs, a plaid shirt shows through in a most indecorous way. The cassock albs at Almy are cut in the Anglican style, that is double breasted, rather than with a button closure up the middle.

I was in the cathedral of Lyon one hot summer day, and saw an elderly priest with an alb, but with what looked like a Hawaiian shirt underneath. Given the oppressive heat wave, I couldn’t blame him. Right near where I saw him, there is the cathedral treasury, which contains a number of articles collected by an archbishop there over 200 years ago. These articles included magnificent chasubles, a fine alb owned by one of the popes, and a reliquary in a cross with a shin-bone of St. Irenaeus.

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

Usbek de Perse,

Yes there are some responses that come from the 1979 BCP, of course there is much that was retained from the 1928 BCP, i.e., Prayer of Humble Access, Gereral Confession and the Thanksgiving. But if you look at the Sarum Usage there is much of that in the liturgy, some of the wording is a little different, but the context is the same. From what I saw the Latin Canon Eucharistic Prayer I is almost the same as the Sarum Use. I did compare it to the 1979 BCP too.

As I recall after Rome changed the liturgy, the Episcopal church also made some of the same changes, as I have heard the Lutherans did too. The Liturgy of the Word is how I recall it in my former Anglo Catholic parish. We used the Anglican Missal. Maybe because I belonged to an Anglo Catholic parish for so long I am not hung up on the 1928 BCP or the 1979 BCP. We had so much more in the liturgy that is not in these liturgies.

The parts that are to me very Anglican as I mentioned above are important to my Anglican heritage, but feel the Canon is much more complete in the AU liturgy.

The Pastoral Provision accepted what Rome offered in the Book of Divine Worship. There could be changes to the other rites in the BDW sometime in the future.

I have the video of Our Lady of Atonement’s Mass, which is old and hopefully they will make a new one. I felt very comfortable as a former Episcopalian with the Liturgy. They use the older hymnal. Being a former Episcopalian I know that it difficult to please everyone. The AU is only for the US at this time.

If you watch the video you will see that they use both Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit as the case may be.

I am so much at peace being a Catholic and feel for Anglicans right now who aren’t sure what to do. I might never live in an area with the AU Mass, but my parish is very traditional and we sing the same hymns I did as an Episcopalian (Anglo Catholic).

I will always miss the “Thees and Thous”, but for me the Catholic Church is Truth and that is more important than words.

God Bless

Bernadette

Hi Bernadette,

There is a slight difference in the prayer of humble access and also the post communion prayer between the 1928 and 1979. I know this because at my church, we use 1928 at 8:00 (with modern lectionary and collects from the 1979) and 1979 Rite 1 at 10:00. Since I am occasionally called to serve at the 10:00, I know both. I have everything I need in the 1928 memorized, but I have to be careful in the 1979.

So, do you use the 1940 hymnal? So superior to the 1982. If you recall “Oh God our Help in Ages Past”, that wonderful evangelical - non-conformist hymn, the line “time like an ever-rolling stream bears all its sons away…” has been replaced with “…bears all our sins away…” A travesty of theology, and really an unnecessary one.

 

[FrDavid96]

The cassock alb is marketed by companies such as CM Almy. They are typically made of a slightly thicker fabric, which makes them suitable when wearing them over street clothes with no cassock. With thinner albs, a plaid shirt shows through in a most indecorous way. The cassock albs at Almy are cut in the Anglican style, that is double breasted, rather than with a button closure up the middle.

I was in the cathedral of Lyon one hot summer day, and saw an elderly priest with an alb, but with what looked like a Hawaiian shirt underneath. Given the oppressive heat wave, I couldn’t blame him. Right near where I saw him, there is the cathedral treasury, which contains a number of articles collected by an archbishop there over 200 years ago. These articles included magnificent chasubles, a fine alb owned by one of the popes, and a reliquary in a cross with a shin-bone of St. Irenaeus.

That’s what I was getting at with the so-called “cassock-alb” It’s properly an alb, not a cassock. A cassock would be the sort of thing a priest (other cleric or seminarian) might wear on the streets, or at some other setting like in the parish hall, or any number of other settings when an alb would not be at all appropriate. I’m not saying that a priest “must” remove the alb immediately after Mass before he goes into the hall–but that the alb is not an appropriate garment to wear except in a liturgical setting (if he does, “so what?” no harm done). There is no one style or cut for an alb. They can fasten any number of ways.

If a manufacturer wants to call something a “cassock-alb” there’s nothing wrong with that. They can call it a ham sandwich if they want to, if they think that would help their sales. But it can be a bit misleading because the garment itself isn’t a cassock at all.

 

[BernadetteM]

Hi Bernadette,

There is a slight difference in the prayer of humble access and also the post communion prayer between the 1928 and 1979. I know this because at my church, we use 1928 at 8:00 (with modern lectionary and collects from the 1979) and 1979 Rite 1 at 10:00. Since I am occasionally called to serve at the 10:00, I know both. I have everything I need in the 1928 memorized, but I have to be careful in the 1979.

So, do you use the 1940 hymnal? So superior to the 1982. If you recall “Oh God our Help in Ages Past”, that wonderful evangelical - non-conformist hymn, the line “time like an ever-rolling stream bears all its sons away…” has been replaced with “…bears all our sins away…” A travesty of theology, and really an unnecessary one.

HI,

Since I don’t live in a state with the AU parishes, I assume from what I have been told that they probably use the 1940 hymnal.

Are you happy within TEC? Of course I don’t know your background. Even when I was very young, 11 or so I was proud (shouldn’t be) of the low church I attended when I compared it with my friends fundamentalist church, as all the young people, she and I included, made fun of the lyrics they sang and were not really interested in spiritual matters. Of course this is true of many young people in any church, they haven’t reached a point in their lives to care about spiritual issues. Although I was just like them at her church, at mine I was very interested in the spiritual side. I always considered myself a little strange as even now I meet few people who are really interested in the study or research of religious subjects.

Also I was always a Catholic in my heart at a very young age that when all the problems started in the Episcopal church it was very easy to actually become Catholic.

Bless you

Bernadette

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

HI,

Since I don’t live in a state with the AU parishes, I assume from what I have been told that they probably use the 1940 hymnal.

Are you happy within TEC? Of course I don’t know your background. Even when I was very young, 11 or so I was proud (shouldn’t be) of the low church I attended when I compared it with my friends fundamentalist church, as all the young people, she and I included, made fun of the lyrics they sang and were not really interested in spiritual matters. Of course this is true of many young people in any church, they haven’t reached a point in their lives to care about spiritual issues. Although I was just like them at her church, at mine I was very interested in the spiritual side. I always considered myself a little strange as even now I meet few people who are really interested in the study or research of religious subjects.

Also I was always a Catholic in my heart at a very young age that when all the problems started in the Episcopal church it was very easy to actually become Catholic.

Bless you

Bernadette

Dear Bernadette,

Am I happy in TEC? I should say that not since they decided to call it TEC!

My story is a long one, but I have mentioned it elsewhere on CAF, so I can tell it briefly again. As a youth I had thought of becoming a priest, but at age 19, I became a Baha’i, and remained one for 30 years. I returned to the church about 6 years ago. At first I did not have a deep feeling for Christianity, but my attachment to Christ deepened, and I came to really appreciate that He is the focal point of all creation, and that all creation revolves around his incarnation. The primal point of all history is the crucifixion and resurrection. I never understood that before. Indeed, the consecration of the Eucharist is this central point of human existence.

Am I happy in TEC? I wish it had more backbone. But I don’t have anywhere else to go. Catholics should appreciate that for an Anglican, the Catholic Church is not a refuge from liberalism. One should become Catholic because one want to become Catholic, not because one is dissatisfied with one’s own church. I refuse to join any of the “continuing” Anglican churches. There are two churches and a seminary very close to me.

I have no real problem with women’s ordination. But I have become resolutely pro-life, and joined Anglicans for Life. I hope to attend training on the Gabriel project sometime soon. I am happy to be in the same church as N.T. Wright, John Sentamu, Rowan Williams, and Desmond Tutu.

I do look forward to a time when unity between the great traditions is possible. Curiously, I accept the primacy of the Roman pontif, but not the Papacy as currently structured. The pope is supposed to be primer inter pares, but in reality, he is more primer and less inter-pares. You are not first among equals when you have the power to name your equals. So I would like to see the historic patriarchates in co-equal relationship with the bishop of Rome, along with patriarchs or primates in other parts of the world.

I enjoy our conversation.

Blessings and peace

 

[EasterJoy]

That’s what I was getting at with the so-called “cassock-alb” It’s properly an alb, not a cassock. A cassock would be the sort of thing a priest (other cleric or seminarian) might wear on the streets, or at some other setting like in the parish hall, or any number of other settings when an alb would not be at all appropriate. I’m not saying that a priest “must” remove the alb immediately after Mass before he goes into the hall–but that the alb is not an appropriate garment to wear except in a liturgical setting (if he does, “so what?” no harm done). There is no one style or cut for an alb. They can fasten any number of ways.

If a manufacturer wants to call something a “cassock-alb” there’s nothing wrong with that. They can call it a ham sandwich if they want to, if they think that would help their sales. But it can be a bit misleading because the garment itself isn’t a cassock at all.

Cassock-alb refers to an alb with a cut more like a cassock, in that it wraps on, rather than going on over the head. What is referred to as a “traditional” alb, OTOH, has a continuous bottom hem, and goes on over the head.

Then, to add to the confusion, there are the white habits of the Dominicans, which may be worn on the street. I think the Dominican priests do wear them as albs, too.

 

[FrDavid96]

Cassock-alb refers to an alb with a cut more like a cassock, in that it wraps on, rather than going on over the head. What is referred to as a “traditional” alb, OTOH, has a continuous bottom hem, and goes on over the head.

Then, to add to the confusion, there are the white habits of the Dominicans, which may be worn on the street. I think the Dominican priests do wear them as albs, too.

Like I said, as far as I’m concerned manufacturers can use whatever names they want for their products. And I don’t think the Church realy cares either. But keep in mind that just because they choose to call it a “cassock alb” doesn’t make it a cassock–it’s still an alb.

When religious order clerics wear their habits instead of an alb, that’s an abuse.
See the quote from RS 126 in post #26
And note that Rome does use the word “abuse.”

That’s the point I’ve been making about the difference between street clothes (like the cassock or the habit) and vestments. One cannot replace the other. A Dominican friar might wear his habit when attending Mass, or if he’s a priest, might even wear it with a stole if he’s blessing someone’s rosary (just to give a few examples), but it cannot be worn in place of the alb–Rome’s very clear on that.

 

[japhy]

Yes, there is a vesting prayer for the amice. I have it on a card in the sacristy, but I can’t find it printed in the Sacramentary. I don’t know if anyone else has a reference to these.

I know of them from Msgr. (now-Bishop) Peter J. Elliott’s Ceremonies of the Modern Roman Rite. I’m including them in volume two of my series on the new English translation of the Mass:
I GREW UP IN NORTHERN New Jersey, and my family attended Mass at the parish of St. Luke’s in Ho-Ho-Kus. I was an altar boy there for several years, but it was only recently, while visiting the pastor, that I noticed a bronze plaque on the sacristy wall, above a sink. The words on this plaque are Latin, but I was able to piece together its meaning based on a few cognates and a smattering of Latin vocabulary:

Da, Domine, virtutem manibus meis ad abstergendum omnem maculam;
ut sine pollutione mentis et corporis valeam tibi servire.

It means, “Give, O Lord, strength to my hands, to be cleansed from all stain, that I may be able to serve you without corruption of mind or body.” These words are above the sacristy sink because they are the words of the traditional prayer spoken by the priest as he prepares to celebrate Mass: they are the prayer during which he washes his hands.

While certain elements of Catholic worship are reminiscent or evocative of daily life, they are, at the same time, set apart from secular or profane associations: they are consecrated for divine purposes, often by means of prayers and blessings. So it is with the seemingly mundane (that is, “worldly”) chore of “getting dressed” for Mass. The priest does not just wash his hands; he does not just toss on a clean alb and secure it with a rope; he does not just grab whatever stole and chasuble suits his mood. Instead, the preparatory actions of the priest are accompanied by prayers which speak of a spiritual battle and a heavenly mystery unfolding here on earth in the life of the priest.

Why does the Church “dramatize” such preliminary activities? The answer can be found on another sign on a sacristy wall in Emmitsburg, Maryland. There, in the Basilica of St. Elizabeth Ann Seton, the priest sees these words: “Priest of God, celebrate this Mass as if it were your first Mass, your last Mass, your only Mass.” This is a solemn reminder to the priest to be aware of the sacred mysteries dispensed at his hands and to pay attention. Mass should not be celebrated casually, but with due reverence and devotion. The sanctuary is not a stage for the priest, nor is the altar a prop. The priest is not an entertainer and the Mass is not a show. He is a minister of Christ, the High Priest, ordained to renew and offer, sacramentally, the once-and-for-all sacrifice of Christ. The words in the sacristy of the Basilica, like the words in the sacristy in St. Luke’s church, are meant to remind the priest of this profound truth.

The Roman Missal contains prayers of preparation and thanksgiving for the priest, but at present, it does not contain the vesting prayers, those said by the priest as he puts on the sacred vestments. I think the whole Church would benefit from the use of these prayers, and if their inclusion in this book contributes to a resurgence of their use, thanks be to God!

 

[Bluegoat]

In Catholic usage, there’s no such thing as a cassock-alb because a cassock is “street clothes” and there’s no mixing the two. However, if the designation “cassock alb” is nothing more than a marketing description, and it is in fact an alb, then there’s no reason why such a thing could not be worn.

The cassock alb is not that different from an alb - it looks almost identical. They seem to be of heavier material, and I think the idea is simply that you can wear it without a cassock underneath without it looking odd.

 

[alveolate]

pardon me if i sound a little presumptuous… but all these wrangling over the nitty-gritty of cloths - isn’t it a little too legalistic and fixated on forms?

amidst the long replies i quickly scanned, i don’t think i saw any explications of the meanings and purposes of the varied vestments. could i trouble someone to highlight the significances? especially the difference between a cassock and an alb - both in terms of the form (i could never really tell them apart at first glance) and their respective significance. i’ve heard that the stole represents the wisdom and knowledge imparted to the priests as part of their clerical office/ordination. (i don’t think this is differentiated between Christian traditions - but i might be mistaken!)

tucked or untucked - what’s the implication?

crossed or uncrossed - affects the eyes or affects the mind?

cassock and/or alb - a matter of deep, Christocentric tradition or just distracting judgemental legalism?

if the wording is a little harsh, i apologise. i do not mean any offense… but i can’t hold back a sense of incredulity about concerns which do not seem to reach beneath the surface!

 

[Bluegoat]

pardon me if i sound a little presumptuous… but all these wrangling over the nitty-gritty of cloths - isn’t it a little too legalistic and fixated on forms?

amidst the long replies i quickly scanned, i don’t think i saw any explications of the meanings and purposes of the varied vestments. could i trouble someone to highlight the significances? especially the difference between a cassock and an alb - both in terms of the form (i could never really tell them apart at first glance) and their respective significance. i’ve heard that the stole represents the wisdom and knowledge imparted to the priests as part of their clerical office/ordination. (i don’t think this is differentiated between Christian traditions - but i might be mistaken!)

tucked or untucked - what’s the implication?

crossed or uncrossed - affects the eyes or affects the mind?

cassock and/or alb - a matter of deep, Christocentric tradition or just distracting judgemental legalism?

if the wording is a little harsh, i apologise. i do not mean any offense… but i can’t hold back a sense of incredulity about concerns which do not seem to reach beneath the surface!

Well, as far as the cassock goes, it’s just not really a vestment. It used to represent a priests everyday going about his business wear. At the time it came into existence, it was not terribly different from the other clothes people wore.

A modern equivalent would be a priest in his everyday clothes for going about the parish. A few still wear a cassock.