Castrillón satisfied with SSPX answer; SSPX will give heed to the five points

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Lets not forget to keep praying for SSPX to come back to full Communion with Holy Mother Church.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[GerardP]

That guy turned out to be a whack-job…

Maybe, maybe not. But you sure didn’t demonstrate it with the conversation you quoted.

I would never attend a service presided over by an SSPX minister.

That’s your choice and your loss. Prejudice is often like that.

 

[GerardP]

Lets not forget to keep praying for SSPX to come back to full Communion with Holy Mother Church.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

As long as people use these liberal terms like “full and partial communion.” This is going to be a rocky road.

It’s as sensible as full and partial pregnancy.

 

[ethelzguy]

As long as people use these liberal terms like “full and partial communion.” This is going to be a rocky road.

It’s as sensible as full and partial pregnancy.

The SSPX is not in full Communion with Rome at this time. Plain and Simple. What does that have to do with calling people “liberals”?

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

As long as people use these liberal terms like “full and partial communion.” This is going to be a rocky road.

It’s as sensible as full and partial pregnancy.

I think I have seen it all now. Being called a liberal because I asked people to pray for unity within the Church. If that’s what it takes, I will proudly wear the label.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[BrendanD]

The SSPX is not in full Communion with Rome at this time. Plain and Simple. What does that have to do with calling people “liberals”?

I think he means the idea that someone can be in “partial communion” is new. It used to be that someone was either in communion with the Church, or outside it.

 

[ethelzguy]

I think he means the idea that someone can be in “partial communion” is new. It used to be that someone was either in communion with the Church, or outside it.

I suspect that the phrase was born out of charity, rather that saying they are “out of Communion” with Rome…

 

[saint_rafael]

The SSPX are in communion with the Pope because they are inside the Catholic Church, they recognize him, and are loyal.

Those who are said to not be in communion with the Pope are called schismatic. If you are not in communion you are outside and in a state of schism like the Orthodox Church.

Catholics need to define what they mean because they are using a description that fits schismatics.

We need to pray for Canonical regularization. The SSPX are already in communion because they never left the Church, all they need is to be regularized.

All Regularization entails, is to have canonical recognition.

 

[BrendanD]

I suspect that the phrase was born out of charity, rather that saying they are “out of Communion” with Rome…

Yes, I think it’s so they can not-quite say out of Communion, schism, etc. It’s kind of an odd position to be in though.

 

[ProVobis]

We need to pray for Canonical regularization. The SSPX are already in communion because they never left the Church, all they need is to be regularized.

All Regularization entails, is to have canonical recognition.

This is important as far as confessions and marriages go.

Moral certitude - not in formal schism

 

[ethelzguy]

The SSPX are in communion with the Pope because they are inside the Catholic Church, they recognize him, and are loyal.

.

Rome currently says otherwise. I will take the authority or Rome over the rantings of Saint Rafael.

 

[Spiller]

The SSPX are in communion with the Pope because they are inside the Catholic Church, they recognize him, and are loyal.

Those who are said to not be in communion with the Pope are called schismatic. If you are not in communion you are outside and in a state of schism like the Orthodox Church.

Catholics need to define what they mean because they are using a description that fits schismatics.

We need to pray for Canonical regularization. The SSPX are already in communion because they never left the Church, all they need is to be regularized.

All Regularization entails, is to have canonical recognition.

LOL!!

APOSTOLIC LETTER
“ECCLESIA DEI”
OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF
JOHN PAUL II
GIVEN MOTU PROPRIO

c) In the present circumstances I wish especially to make an appeal both solemn and heartfelt, paternal and fraternal, to all those who until now have been linked in various ways to the movement of Archbishop Lefebvre, that they may fulfil the grave duty of remaining united to the Vicar of Christ in the unity of the Catholic Church, and of ceasing their support in any way for that movement. Everyone should be aware that formal adherence to the schism is a grave offence against God and carries the penalty of excommunication decreed by the Church’s law.

Ref: vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/motu_proprio/documents/hf_jp-ii_motu-proprio_02071988_ecclesia-dei_en.html

 

[ethelzguy]

LOL!!

APOSTOLIC LETTER
“ECCLESIA DEI”
OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF
JOHN PAUL II
GIVEN MOTU PROPRIO

c) In the present circumstances I wish especially to make an appeal both solemn and heartfelt, paternal and fraternal, to all those who until now have been linked in various ways to the movement of Archbishop Lefebvre, that they may fulfil the grave duty of remaining united to the Vicar of Christ in the unity of the Catholic Church, and of ceasing their support in any way for that movement. Everyone should be aware that formal adherence to the schism is a grave offence against God and carries the penalty of excommunication decreed by the Church’s law.

Ref: vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/motu_proprio/documents/hf_jp-ii_motu-proprio_02071988_ecclesia-dei_en.html

Prepare for incoming denigration of JPII

 

[Irish_High_King]

Pro Vobis you have just no clue as to what you are talking about.

Hmmm…Seems like he has more of a clue than you, evidently!

If any valid Pope tells a priest or bishop “you can’t say the old mass unless you have my permission…” then you must obey.

Absolute nonsense. Consider this, if you will, from a valid Pope, a saint no less:

“…We grant and concede in perpetuity that, for the chanting or reading of the Mass in any church whatsoever, this Missal is hereafter to be followed absolutely, without any scruple of conscience or fear of incurring any penalty, judgment, or censure, and may freely and lawfully be used. Nor are superiors, administrators, canons, chaplains, and other secular priests, or religious, of whatever title designated, obliged to celebrate the Mass otherwise than as enjoined by Us. We likewise declare and ordain that no one whosoever is forced or coerced to alter this Missal, and that this present document cannot be revoked or modified, but remain always valid…” - Pope St Pius V, “Quo Primum”, 1570

Even though the old mass wasnt abrogated, the Pope can and did tell the Archbishop not to say it.

The Pope did, and acted out of his jurisdiction.

The Archbishop has to obey. He can schedule a meeting and protest and state his opinion, but he cant disobey. UNDERSTAND THAT!!! YOU GIVE ME CHEST PAINS EVERYTIME I READ YOUR POSTS!!!

Tell that to St Padre Pio, who never once celebrated the Novus Ordo and stated he would rather die than celebrate it.

 

[Timothysis]

Absolute nonsense. Consider this, if you will, from a valid Pope, a saint no less:
“…We grant and concede in perpetuity that, for the chanting or reading of the Mass in any church whatsoever, this Missal is hereafter to be followed absolutely, without any scruple of conscience or fear of incurring any penalty, judgment, or censure, and may freely and lawfully be used. Nor are superiors, administrators, canons, chaplains, and other secular priests, or religious, of whatever title designated, obliged to celebrate the Mass otherwise than as enjoined by Us. We likewise declare and ordain that no one whosoever is forced or coerced to alter this Missal, and that this present document cannot be revoked or modified, but remain always valid…” - Pope St Pius V, “Quo Primum”, 1570

The Pope did, and acted out of his jurisdiction.

Tell that to St Padre Pio, who never once celebrated the Novus Ordo and stated he would rather die than celebrate it.

Oh please. Everyone knows that a current Pope cannot bind a future Pope; what one binds another can loosen. According to literalist interpretations of Quo Primum the missal of 1570 can never be altered, though since 1570 it was revised many times, lastly in 1962!!! The celebration of the Mass is a discipline and is subject to change/revision.

 

[consumedconvert]

Hmmm…Seems like he has more of a clue than you, evidently!

Tell that to St Padre Pio, who never once celebrated the Novus Ordo and stated he would rather die than celebrate it.

Do you have a citation for that? I have never seen a quotation of him saying that. Considering his characteristic submission to his Bishop and the Pope, that would seem a highly uncharacteristic thing for him to say.

 

[Spiller]

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure, the SSPX isn’t in a state of schism – and I have a bridge in Brooklyn NY that I’d love to sell you…

APOSTOLIC LETTER
“ECCLESIA DEI”
OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF
JOHN PAUL II
GIVEN MOTU PROPRIO

c) In the present circumstances I wish especially to make an appeal both solemn and heartfelt, paternal and fraternal, to all those who until now have been linked in various ways to the movement of Archbishop Lefebvre, that they may fulfil the grave duty of remaining united to the Vicar of Christ in the unity of the Catholic Church, and of ceasing their support in any way for that movement. Everyone should be aware that formal adherence to the schism is a grave offence against God and carries the penalty of excommunication decreed by the Church’s law.

 

[Spiller]

Do you have a citation for that? I have never seen a quotation of him saying that. Considering his characteristic submission to his Bishop and the Pope, that would seem a highly uncharacteristic thing for him to say.

A lot of those “famous” quotes are fabricated – like the one with Mother Theresa and communion-in-hand.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Here is a quote from St Padre Pio that you can bank on. "Obedience. In all things obedience.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[ethelzguy]

Oh please. Everyone knows that a current Pope cannot bind a future Pope; what one binds another can loosen. According to literalist interpretations of Quo Primum the missal of 1570 can never be altered, though since 1570 it was revised many times, lastly in 1962!!! The celebration of the Mass is a discipline and is subject to change/revision.

Tell that to the traditionalist crowd. They hang on select verbages from Popes of old, while refusing to listen to the Popes of our lifetimes.

Easier to manipulate the words of the dead to suit our purpose. They aren’t here to clarify themselves.