Cat*olic Channel Contradicting the Church?

[Bennie_P]

Here is link that I found on Catholic Culture compares Catholic and Mormon Beliefs comparing-views.com/ .

Though I have few Mormon friends/associates, they are not Christian.

 

[fatima1917]

This site pretty well settles the issue whether Mormons are Christian or not. Rome has spoken, case closed.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20010605_battesimo_mormoni_en.html

 

[traditionalgal]

Thanks to everyone for the (name removed by moderator)ut. It looks like I was correct in thinking that the church views Mormonism as non Christian.
What I still find mind boggling is that the host of the show seemed to avoid this position. So I wasn’t unfair to him, I emailed him and asked him to clarify the church’s position. He emailed me back and stated that I would have to ask a Mormon if they considered themselves Christian or not. Huh??? Very scary that a host of a Catholic radio show doesn’t want to clarify the church’s position on something. Maybe Catholics shouldn’t always look to Protestants for misconceptions about the church.
I think what I dislike most is that Catholics have a church and doctrine and history and some don’t act proud or confident in making a strong stand for it. Why are some being so PC about what they say? If truth is truth, a non Christian should be able to tell them apart from a secularist. I do have to say that I DO like that about many Protestant leaders. They come right out with it and don’t dance around presenting their convictions. I think if more Catholics did this, more people would appreciate them and there would be less misconceptions about what they really are. In addition, all Christians might also have a stonger voice in the world arena. Too bad.

 

[Allweather]

I completely agree with you, traditionalgal. I think we’re seeing a new, and newly vigorous American Catholic Church. CA is one sign of it. I became a Catholic back in the middle 80s. It was terrible then. I was the only convert in my parish in so long that no one could remember the last one. The parishes in that area were mostly dead and dying. I see an entirely different Church now, very rejuvenated. I can’t explain what happened during the years after Vatican II, except that maybe the Church lost its footing momentarily. These things happen. Now, though, things are on the upswing, and as a result we are having huge numbers of new converts and reverts, and I am hearing stories about seminaries having lots of applicants.

In the past, it seems like when the Catholics talked about ecumenism, it meant that Catholics were to keep their mouths shut and try to get along with other Christians. This radio interviewer may be one of these. Most of us, though, are not the least bit shy about defending the faith. And who knows? Maybe that email you sent the guy gave him a jolt, so that in future he’ll be a little more assertive about truth.

 

[Bot]

The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) is often misunderstood . . Some accuse the Church of not believing in Christ and, therefore, not being a Christian religion . . This article helps to clarify such misconceptions

· Baptism: .

Early Christian churches, practiced baptism of youth (not infants) by immersion by the father of the family. The local congregation had a lay ministry. An early Christian Church has been re-constructed at the Israel Museum, and the above can be verified. imj.org.il/eng/exhibitions/2000/christianity/ancientchurch/structure/index.html
The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) continues baptism and a lay ministry as taught by Jesus’ Apostles. . Early Christians were persecuted for keeping their practices sacred, and not allowing non-Christians to witness them

**· The Trinity: **.

A literal reading of the New Testament points to God and Jesus Christ , His Son , being separate , divine beings , united in purpose. . To whom was Jesus praying in Gethsemane, and Who was speaking to Him and his apostles on the Mount of Transfiguration?

The Nicene Creed”s definition of the Trinity was influenced by scribes translating the Greek manuscripts into Latin. . The scribes embellished on a passage explaining the Trinity , which is the Catholic and Protestant belief that God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. . The oldest versions of the epistle of 1 John, read: “*There are three that bear witness: the Spirit, the water and the blood and these three are one.” *

Scribes later added "the Father, the Word and the Spirit," and it remained in the epistle when it was translated into English for the King James Version, according to Dr. Bart Ehrman, Chairman of the Religion Department at UNC- Chapel Hill. . . .He no longer believes in the Nicene Trinity. .

Scholars agree that Early Christians believed in an embodied God; it was neo-Platonist influences that later turned Him into a disembodied Spirit. . Divinization, narrowing the space between God and humans, was also part of Early Christian belief. . The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) views the Trinity as three separate divine beings , in accord with the earliest Greek New Testament manuscripts.

· The Deity of Jesus Christ

Mormons hold firmly to the deity of Christ. For members of the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS), Jesus is not only the Son of God but also God the Son. Evangelical pollster George Barna found in 2001 that while only 33 percent of American Catholics, Lutherans, and Methodists (28 percent of Episcopalians) agreed that Jesus was “without sin”, 70 percent of Mormons believe Jesus was sinless. adherents.com/misc/BarnaPoll.html

· The Cross: .

The Cross became popular as a Christian symbol in the Fifth Century A.D. . Members of the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) believe the proper Christian symbol is Christ’s resurrection , not his crucifixion on the Cross. Many Mormon chapels feature paintings of the resurrected Christ or His Second Coming.

· Christ’s Atonement: .

But Mormons don”t term Catholics and Protestants “non-Christian”. . They believe Christ’s atonement in Gethsemane and on the Cross applies to all mankind. . The dictionary definition of a Christian is *“of, pertaining to, believing in, or belonging to a religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ”: *. All of the above denominations are followers of Christ, and consider him divine, and the Messiah foretold in the Old Testament. They all worship the one and only true God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and address Him in prayer as prescribed in The Lord’s Prayer.

It”s important to understand the difference between Reformation and Restoration when we consider who might be authentic Christians. If members of the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) embrace early Christian theology , they are likely more “Christian” than their detractors.

---

·

 

[puzzleannie]

Thanks for your response. I do understand your not wanting to directly comment on a specific commentator since you don’t have a transcript or copy of an email. However, I do think that you could comment on a case scenario of “what if…” ? Should a commentator be able to present a viewpoint different than that of the church on a channel representing the church?

.

I don’t know the show, the commentator or the station, so I have no reason to believe a) this person said what you heard b) what you reported represents accurately all he said and its context c) he has any authority from the Catholic Church to teach on the radio, d) the program or station has authority from the local bishop to teach on the radio. We don’t even know if what he said was an off the cuff answer to a call-in question, offered as personal opinion, offered as part of a formal teaching. Until I know that, comment would not be worth much.

 

[Yerusalyim]

This is one of the answers I was hoping to get-A yes/no response on the church’s position. It seems to me that Catholics should be able to directly answer the position held by their faith.

Why? It’s not like the Church is sitting there looking around trying to decide who is and isn’t REALLY a Christian.

 

[joshua_b]

I feel it neccessary to point out that this is a murky issue that is overwrought with semantics and definitions with serious overtones of theology.

The Catholic Church believes that through valid baptism we become members of the Body of Christ (the Church). Any validly baptised person is a member of the Church. A strict look at this would seem to exclude Mormons from being deemed “Christians” in the eyes of the Catholic Church, since the CC does not deem Mormon baptism as valid.

However, the whole teaching on “baptism of desire” really muddies things up. Mormons believe in Christ and His attoning sacrifice (I believe…Im no expert on Mormon theology), so there could be a presupposition made that if individual members of the LDS knew the Truth about baptism, they would be baptized, and they are only withholding themselves from valid membership in the Church because of invincible ignorance.

Therefore, it is possible (maybe even LIKELY) for Mormons to be Christians, even though Mormonism would not be officially considered a Christian denomination by the Catholic Church. This is more than likely the intended message of the talk show host in question, and the host probably avoided a direct answer because 1) a “direct” answer (as in yes/no) would be only a partially correct answer and 2) saying that Mormons are not Christians is just plain uncharitable (as well as inaccurate).

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I am a Protestant who enjoys listening to the Catolic Channel on
Siris Satellite Radio. There is a show where the host is Bb Duning. On the program, he was discussing Mormons and he seemed to insinuate that some Protestants were not being correct or fair when they considered Mormons a cult or a non Christian religion. It was my understanding that Catholicism disagrees with this. In fact, this page comes to mind from this website -

catholic.com/library/noncatholic_groups.asp .

1. What is the position of the church on this? Am I understanding the link correctly and that the church does not see it as Christian?
2. When pushed for an answer on the church’s position, he basically stated that a Mormon would need to be asked if they considered themselves Christian. To me, this sounded like politically correct jargon on a station for Catholics. If the church’s positon is that Mormonism is not Christian or a cult, it seems odd that a talk show host can avoid supporting the position of the church on a station representing the church. This was a bit bizarre to me and makes me question if all the hosts on the station are accurately representing church positions. Scary for people looking to be educated about the church.

Comments? Answers?

Wy al te lft-ot leters ? ​

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) is often misunderstood . . Some accuse the Church of not believing in Christ and, therefore, not being a Christian religion . . This article helps to clarify such misconceptions

· Baptism: .

Early Christian churches, practiced baptism of youth (not infants) by immersion by the father of the family. The local congregation had a lay ministry. An early Christian Church has been re-constructed at the Israel Museum, and the above can be verified. imj.org.il/eng/exhibitions/2000/christianity/ancientchurch/structure/index.html
The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) continues baptism and a lay ministry as taught by Jesus’ Apostles. . Early Christians were persecuted for keeping their practices sacred, and not allowing non-Christians to witness them

**The Trinity: **.

A literal reading of the New Testament points to God and Jesus Christ , His Son , being separate , divine beings , united in purpose. . To whom was Jesus praying in Gethsemane, and Who was speaking to Him and his apostles on the Mount of Transfiguration? ## If a novelist writes himself into his novel, does he cease to be the novelist ? There are distinct forms of him, both with His consciousness. ##

The Nicene Creed”s definition of the Trinity was influenced by scribes translating the Greek manuscripts into Latin. . The scribes embellished on a passage explaining the Trinity , which is the Catholic and Protestant belief that God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. . The oldest versions of the epistle of 1 John, read: “*There are three that bear witness: the Spirit, the water and the blood and these three are one.” *

Scribes later added "the Father, the Word and the Spirit," and it remained in the epistle when it was translated into English for the King James Version, according to Dr. Bart Ehrman, Chairman of the Religion Department at UNC- Chapel Hill. . . .He no longer believes in the Nicene Trinity.

The Blessed Trinity is unchanged by errors about It. Nicea said nothing about the Blessed Trinity: it did teach that the Son is consubstantial with the Father - unlike Mormonism. This ignores the detail of textual criticism

Scholars agree that Early Christians believed in an embodied God;

Yes, “the Word was made flesh” - & He is unique in doing so: despite Mormon polytheism.​

it was neo-Platonist influences that later turned Him into a disembodied Spirit. . Divinization, narrowing the space between God and humans, was also part of Early Christian belief.

This is a distortion - not helped by vagueness about which Christians, & how early.​

The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) views the Trinity as three separate divine beings , in accord with the earliest Greek New Testament manuscripts.

Words are not the things they denote - the Names Father, Son, Spirit do not prove separation, but imply distinction in Unity.

** The Deity of Jesus Christ**

Mormons hold firmly to the deity of Christ. For members of the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS), Jesus is not only the Son of God but also God the Son.

A lot of gods are sons. That does not make them the true Son. If we look at words instead of things, Ganesh son of Shiva must be God the Son. He is not - because Christians adore One God alone. Mormonism equivocates by using words like this; it deceives ​

Evangelical pollster George Barna found in 2001 that while only 33 percent of American Catholics, Lutherans, and Methodists (28 percent of Episcopalians) agreed that Jesus was “without sin”, 70 percent of Mormons believe Jesus was sinless. adherents.com/misc/BarnaPoll.html

By the grace of God, we are Catholics, & hold the true Faith.

The Cross: .

The Cross became popular as a Christian symbol in the Fifth Century A.D. . Members of the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) believe the proper Christian symbol is Christ’s resurrection , not his crucifixion on the Cross. Many Mormon chapels feature paintings of the resurrected Christ or His Second Coming.

The Cross was in Christian use by the fourth century - the earliest mention of a processional cross at Rome is from 398

more…

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

…more + ended

Christ’s Atonement: .

But Mormons don”t term Catholics and Protestants “non-Christian”. They believe Christ’s atonement in Gethsemane and on the Cross applies to all mankind. .

1. They (used to ?) speak of “the great and abominable Church”: that is not an endorsement of it.

2. Elephants do not call men alligators - that does not mean that men must call elephants alligators

Elephants are still elephants, even if they might wish otherwise, even if every animal on earth agrees that elephants are a kind of alligator with a few differences from the more usual sort. Beyond a certain point, alligators & elephants differ so greatly (despite having some common features, such as: being created; being animals; not being men; being visible; being mortal; etc)that to regard the one as a variant form of the other becomes meaningless, like regarding a lion as a variant form of spider.

3. Mormonism empties the Cross of its power by its doctrine of “celestial marriage”: CM is so necessary that it affects which heaven one enters. This is salvation by works, & a denial of the words of Christ that in Heaven “they neither marry nor are given in marriage”.

The dictionary definition of a Christian is *“of, pertaining to, believing in, or belonging to a religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ”: *. All of the above denominations are followers of Christ, and consider him divine, and the Messiah foretold in the Old Testament. They all worship the one and only true God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and address Him in prayer as prescribed in The Lord’s Prayer.

A parrot can be taught the Lord’s Prayer; that does not make it a Christian. If a man worships Odin, Zeus, & Christ, he is not a Christian, however often he prays it. And that is only two extra gods. There are more Mormon gods than in all the pantheons of Egypt, Rome, India & Babylonia combined​

It’s important to understand the difference between Reformation and Restoration when we consider who might be authentic Christians. If members of the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) embrace early Christian theology , they are likely more “Christian” than their detractors.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I feel it neccessary to point out that this is a murky issue that is overwrought with semantics and definitions with serious overtones of theology.

The Catholic Church believes that through valid baptism we become members of the Body of Christ (the Church). Any validly baptised person is a member of the Church. A strict look at this would seem to exclude Mormons from being deemed “Christians” in the eyes of the Catholic Church, since the CC does not deem Mormon baptism as valid.

However, the whole teaching on “baptism of desire” really muddies things up. Mormons believe in Christ and His attoning sacrifice (I believe…Im no expert on Mormon theology), so there could be a presupposition made that if individual members of the LDS knew the Truth about baptism, they would be baptized, and they are only withholding themselves from valid membership in the Church because of invincible ignorance.

Therefore, it is possible (maybe even LIKELY) for Mormons to be Christians, even though Mormonism would not be officially considered a Christian denomination by the Catholic Church. This is more than likely the intended message of the talk show host in question, and the host probably avoided a direct answer because 1) a “direct” answer (as in yes/no) would be only a partially correct answer and 2) saying that Mormons are not Christians is just plain uncharitable (as well as inaccurate).

Even though they regard men as gods in embryo, God the Father as a former man ? ​