Catechism Debate with Gamers (Edited Title)

[Cup_o_Joe]

Help me! I’m trapped. There’s someone on (Link Removed) that is telling me to teach him about a lot of things in the catechism. This was my post after I said the reason I won’t be posting on that forum anymore:

<< It is made from the Bible’s teachings, hence the name Education of the faith.

You have to have actions to support your faith. But to stimulate your faith requires you to start small and go along or if it’s God’s will go right into it. Reading the bible is an action, but what you learn HAS to show in what you do extrovertingly eg helping someone in need, feeding the hungry, visiting someone in an old folks home and socialize with them, lead a pilgrimage etc. Essentially everything comes back to humility, to dedicate yourself and serve Jesus then others before yourself. When you help with humility, it is great, even if people don’t notice Cause it IS all about Jesus. He created the World, he saved us from our sins, and if we let Him take charge of our lives literally, we begin to feel that He becomes our life and we begin to see that everything and everyone He made matters. That is just one of the beauties that Christ taught us in the Bible that is mentioned in the Teaching of the whole Church. >>

This post is from a protestant against the catholic church without even quoting his references from the Catechism:

<< The following post is NOT harshness, angry, or other. It is simply a comparison of Catechism to Scripture. If any verses are in error, please point them out.

This is done in the spirit of TRUTH, not in anger, or to attack anyone’s belief directly.

The Catechism also states:

That Mary was free of original sin,
That she brings the gifts of eternal salvation.
That she ascended to Heaven and continues to be the “gateway to heaven”.

I thought Jesus was our mediator, and that these were His actions?

A Church may claim apostolic succession all it wants, but how does one explain the succession when there were two popes at once? A pope and an anti-pope?

Nowhere in Scripture did Jesus, the apostles, or any other New Testament writer set forth the idea of “apostolic succession.” Further, neither is Peter presented as “supreme” over the other apostles. The Apostle Paul, in fact, rebukes Peter when Peter was leading others astray Galatians 2:11-14

The Council of Nicea DID NOT “put together the modern Bible”. The Council simply ‘made official’ the books that had already been accepted as canon since the time of the Apostles already! Certain books didn’t make it in because they had LONG been discounted as valid, long before the Council “legitamized” them.

Another imperfection of Catholic Doctrine…The sale of indulgences…Basically, one could “buy off” their sin. I’m certain Christ would look at this as ‘licensing sin’, and would treat it much as He did the moneylenders in the temple, with anger and righteous indignation. You may say, “Well, the Church has corrected this practice.” If the RCC were the Perfect Church, she would never have done this at all.

Catholics:

Call priests Father.

The Bible Says: Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Saved, in part, by good works.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Good works are the fruits that grow out of being saved. They do not make you saved. An apple does not make its tree an apple tree, it was already an apple tree before any apples appeared. When you see the apples; however, you know what kind of tree it is. If a person is saved, he will shew forth good works because he has the spirit of Christ in him. The good works don’t make him saved only the blood of Jesus can do that.

I John
1:7b …the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Acts 16:31b
…believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

Romans
3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

What about James 2:20 “faith without works is dead”?

The kind of faith that saves is a faith that shows forth the works of God. Even devils believe in Jesus and tremble (James 2:19). Many people believe in Jesus but they won’t follow Him. They have a faith, but not the kind that saves. If a person has true faith in Jesus, the Holy Ghost dwells in him and will cause good works will show forth in his life. The good works confirm the faith by which the person was saved. James 2:21-23 uses Abraham as an example. Abraham believed God so when God asked him to sacrifice his son Isaac, Abraham, out of his faith in God, offered up Isaac.

 

[Cup_o_Joe]

CATHOLIC TRADITION - The church is founded on Peter.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus Christ is the foundation of the church. Peter was a man like you and me. Jesus called Peter Satan in Matthew 16:23 when Peter rebuked Jesus dying. When Cornelius tried to worship Peter, Peter responded, “Stand up; I myself also am a man.” (Acts 10:26). The pope needs to remember Acts 10:26 when he has men bowing to him and kissing his hand like he is worthy of worship.

1 Corinthians
3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Matthew
21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected [Jesus], the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary never had other children after the Lord Jesus. A perpetual virgin.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary and Joseph indeed had children. They were the Lord’s half brothers and sisters for their father was Joseph and mother was Mary.

Matthew
13:55 Is not this the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?

Mark
6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the queen of heaven.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Worshipping the queen of heaven (which is not the Mary of the Bible) is worshipping another god and it provokes the Lord to anger.

Jeremiah
7:17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
7:19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the mother of God.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary is the mother of the earthly Jesus, not God. Jesus pre- existed from everlasting as God (see John 1:1). When He came to redeem mankind, He laid aside His glory and was made like unto sinful man so that He could take our punishment (Hebrew 2:9). God has no mother. He has lived from everlasting which means He had no beginning.

Isaiah
43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. [If Mary gave birth to God, she’d be God.]

Psalm
93:2 Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.

Micah
5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler [Jesus] in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Philippians
2:6 Who [Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Venerating/worshipping images. Pope bows to statues of Mary, people worship the eucharist and have statues/candles in their homes and churches.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - It is idolatry to venerate images. We are not even supposed to make them.

Exodus
20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God…

CATHOLIC TRADITION - The mass. Through transubstantiation, the wafer/host and the wine supposedly become the actual blood and body of Jesus Christ when the priest prays over them.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus died once for sins, never to be repeated. He sits on the right hand of God and does not reappear in the mass as a mass of blood and flesh.

Hebrews
10:12 But this man [Jesus], after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

John
19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

1 Corinthians
11:24 And when he [Jesus] had given thanks, he brake it [bread], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come (not for the forgiveness of sins or to receive Jesus).

A few last words:

We are not “persecuting” you directly. I believe, (as mentioned earlier in this thread), that there ARE members of the Catholic Church who are truly saved. These saved individuals have a PERSONAL relationship with Christ that transcends the words or works of the RCC itself, the words of their priests, or any doctrine that attempts to supersede the Bible.

 

[Cup_o_Joe]

However, you will feel persecuted, and if so, rather than leave our community and never visit again, perhaps you should follow the example of the men and women you call saints and ‘persevere even unto Death’. 2 Corinthians 12:10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong. >> And that’s that guy’s post.

Can anyone please PLEASE help me defend the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church? (by the way, I didn’t even mention the council Nicea, just the city)

Thank you.

Here’s that thread:
(Link Removed)

 

[Michael_Francis]

Dear Joe,
Your posts have been edited because they included a suggestion for other forum readers/members to visit another website for the purposes of apologetic debate.

We suggest that you will be better equipped to deal with the arguments against the Catholic faith if you post here at CAF the arguments that you face elsewhere (without naming names of course) and ask for help as to how to respond.

Also you may find helpful information by searching the Ask an Apologist forum for the topic you need and by looking over the articles in the Catholic Answers Library and using the search feature there.

In an effort to illuminate and explain the Catholic faith, CA makes every effort to provide our participants with a pleasant and informative place on the internet where Catholics and non-Catholics may gather.

It is our hope that respectful dialogue and discussion will lead to better faith understandings. And so in charity, we ask that our forums not be used for encouraging mass visits to other websites. In the past these kinds of efforts, although perhaps well intentioned, leave participants at other websites with negative impressions.

Your cooperation in helping promote these aims of faith exposition, hope for fruitful discussion and charity in implementation are sincerely appreciated.

Very sincerely,

 

[Church_Militant]

Hi Joe and welcome to CAF.

You got yourself right in the cross hairs of some a-Cs bigtime. CAF does not encourage us to go to such forums because it creates what is known as a “Board Swarm” and generally does nothing more than create ill feelings on both boards because then they all come running over here and post a bunch of stuff that breaks all the rules. Meanwhile we all get banned over there. It’s useless.

Best answer: **Walk away…**and spend the time here at CAF and watch the Catholics here at CAF refute all that stuff. It’s nothing really…in fact whoever it was just copied and pasted it from an a-C website. They didn’t even do their own homework, just believed what they were fed.

If you want a gamers fellowship where that won’t happen I suggest you click on this link Groups and go make a Catholic gamers group here and go get all your friends. You don’t need that stuff from those guys.

I saw in your intro post that you are looking to better know your faith.

Well my friend you just landed in the right place.
Watch your Catholic brothers and sisters work.

(Better go get a coke and sandwich. It will be worth it! )

 

[Cup_o_Joe]

I finally said I wouldn’t post there anymore. There were people comparing the bride of Christ to Jezebel so I defended the faith and quoted Ephesians 5:22-32 and said that I love them and will pray for them but will not be going to their website again because of that and to educate themselves. they have the resources but if they don’t want to learn, that’s their problem. Anyway that aside, I made the Catholic Gaming group, it’s over here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/group.php?groupid=70

You can find the steam group by clicking the link in my signature.

 

[promethius]

This is what I’d call a smash and grab… throw as much mud on the church as quickly as you can so that it overwhelms ability to response… then run and hide from logic. Nonetheless i’ll try to give you some basic armament to fire back (but first I’d tell the bozo to limit himself to one erroneous interpretation of his at a time):

The Catechism also states:
That Mary was free of original sin, (This is true)
That she brings the gifts of eternal salvation. (This is true, but not in the way that he has portrayed it. The catechism portrays Mary as the gateway through which salvation entered the world… being that CHRIST was salvation. Unless this person is asserting that Christ doesn’t bring salvation, then he actually agrees with this part).
That she ascended to Heaven and continues to be the “gateway to heaven”. (same)

A Church may claim apostolic succession all it wants, but how does one explain the succession when there were two popes at once? A pope and an anti-pope?

There are more than 45 anti-popes today. The presense of loony-toons characters thinking they’re the elected pope of the “true” or “pure” catholics does nothing to negate the papal authority of the REAL pope. People used to believe that aether was responsible for transfer of light and heat, and two theories existed at once for around 75 years. Does that mean that physics is bunk? no. Untruth does not negate truth.

Nowhere in Scripture did Jesus, the apostles, or any other New Testament writer set forth the idea of “apostolic succession.”

Wrong. In Acts, during the first council of the catholic church, the apostles recognize the need to replace Judas with a new apostle. This highlights two facts: 1) they had the authority to do so, and 2) that replacement of apostles who had died out to secure apostolic succession was recognized as a need… so much so, in fact, that it was put in the holy scriptures to be followed.

Further, neither is Peter presented as “supreme” over the other apostles. The Apostle Paul, in fact, rebukes Peter when Peter was leading others astray Galatians 2:11-14

Really? So is Peter the rock, or all the apostles? How many other apostles walked on water with Christ? Which apostle was the one specifically told (three times) to feed Jesus’ flock? As to Paul’s rebuke, what Peter was doing was outside his magisterial teaching authority. No one has ever said any pope (peter included) was impeccable.

The Council of Nicea DID NOT “put together the modern Bible”. The Council simply ‘made official’ the books that had already been accepted as canon since the time of the Apostles already! Certain books didn’t make it in because they had LONG been discounted as valid, long before the Council “legitamized” them.

Untrue. The first councile of Nicea had nothing to do with composition of the scriptures. recommend reading the following:
“The Synods of Hippo, 393 A.D., and Carthage, 397 A.D.,and later, Carthage 419 A.D., ( along with the Traditional Bible or Latin Vulgate ( LV ), 406 A.D., by Saint Jerome ),gave us the canon of Sacred Scripture as Catholics know it today.”
Source: catholicevangelism.org/h-canon1.shtml

Another imperfection of Catholic Doctrine…The sale of indulgences…

wrong. Indulgences have never been “for sale” by catholic doctrine.

Basically, one could “buy off” their sin.

Wrong. Catholic doctrine teaches remission of PENANCE, not sin, by indulgence. These are not the same thing.

I’m certain Christ would look at this as ‘licensing sin’, and would treat it much as He did the moneylenders in the temple, with anger and righteous indignation.

I’m quite certain that making up teachings of Christ and how He would look at things in order to teach one’s own doctrine is against the idea of sola scriptura, as well as being blasphemous.

You may say, “Well, the Church has corrected this practice.” If the RCC were the Perfect Church, she would never have done this at all.

again, if he had ANY understanding of history or church doctrine, he would know that the CHURCH had nothing to do with the abuses of indulgences in the middle ages. That was a problem of a few select criminals largely centered around Germany. That’s like saying that protestants can’t be right because of the salem witch trials.

Call priests Father.

The Bible Says: Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

wrong interpretation. Mathew 23:9 uses the word “ABBA” for father. In common language of the day, there were three words for “father.” these were Ab, the common form, which was used for people, Abi, which was the informal version of “my father,” again, commonly used by children. The final was ABBA. ABBA is not actually a complete hebrew word… it is actually a composite word with the two parts “Ab” for father and -a, from aramaic, as the singular honorific. In other words, Abba translates to “THE Father” and was generally reserved as meaning “Divine Father”.

If any other proof is necessary, we have only to look at the bible to see that the word “father” is applied to men HUNDREDS of times in the scriptures. This means that either the scriptures are self-contradictory and sinful texts, or that this person is wrong in their interpretation.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Saved, in part, by good works.

wrong. Catholicism is a “sola venia” tradition… that is to say, we are saved by Grace alone.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - The church is founded on Peter.

Pretty hard to deny since Christ said: PETER, you are ROCK, and on this rock i will build My church. It saddens me when protestants deliberately take a hack saw to the scriptures in order to force them to mean new things which are contrary to the direct words of Christ.

 

[promethius]

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary never had other children after the Lord Jesus. A perpetual virgin.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary and Joseph indeed had children. They were the Lord’s half brothers and sisters for their father was Joseph and mother was Mary.

Matthew
13:55 Is not this the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?

Actually, the bible never states a single thing that any child protestants call siblings of Christ were born of Mary. They could have been from a previous marraige of Joseph’s. All that is irrelevant, though… because there were no other brothers and sisters to speak of anyway. Please note in the verses this person quoted that the names of the four “brothers” were James, and Joses, and Simon, and JUDE (not JUDAS). Let’s consider a funky little fact here: these are four of the disciples. Brothers and sisters in these verses does NOT apply to LITERAL brothers and sisters, but rather the disciples and followers of Christ.

Further, if we look at the requirements of the passover sacrifice, we see that Mary’s womb was tabernacle to the Lord. In other words, she could have no other children since her womb was reserved for the Lamb and Priest alone. Christ was both of those things.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the queen of heaven.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Worshipping the queen of heaven (which is not the Mary of the Bible) is worshipping another god and it provokes the Lord to anger.

Correct. She’s the “queen mother.” The bible tells us that Christ is the King… and under the Jewish line of kings, the mother of the king was “the queen mother.” Unless this person is asserting that Christ is NOT king of the jews (in other words, is he a pharisee?), then Mary MUST be the Queen Mother of Christ.

further, no catholic worships mary. To worship mary is latae excommunication, aka, automatic removal from the church.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the mother of God.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary is the mother of the earthly Jesus, not God. Jesus pre- existed from everlasting as God (see John 1:1). When He came to redeem mankind, He laid aside His glory and was made like unto sinful man so that He could take our punishment (Hebrew 2:9). God has no mother. He has lived from everlasting which means He had no beginning.

The first part of this statement is heresy: the idea that the earthly man of Jesus was seperable from the Divine Jesus. They are two inseperable Persons. Regardless, we need no proof that this guy is an idiot other than the scriptures. Elizabeth clearly calls Mary “The mother of my Lord”. Game, set, match… this guy needs to read his bible.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Venerating/worshipping images. Pope bows to statues of Mary, people worship the eucharist and have statues/candles in their homes and churches.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - It is idolatry to venerate images. We are not even supposed to make them.

That is patent hogwash. I hope this person has never taken a single photograph in his life… further I hope he doesn’t actually PLAY computer games, because they’re 100% made from “graven images”. Furthermore, if we TRULY are forbidden from creating graven images, then God is a sinner because He COMMANDS the construction of graven images for the ark of the covenant.Since God is NOT a sinner, we know our idiot-savant friend here must be wrong.

All that being said, no catholic worships ANY image. To do so would be to immediately seperate ourselves from the church since idol-worship is automatically anathema.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - The mass. Through transubstantiation, the wafer/host and the wine supposedly become the actual blood and body of Jesus Christ when the priest prays over them.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus died once for sins, never to be repeated. He sits on the right hand of God and does not reappear in the mass as a mass of blood and flesh.

well, except for the fact that the Eucharist is not a “new” sacrifice of Christ, but rather a re-presentation of the same sacrifice. Christ’s death ETERNALLY defeated sin, it was the ETERNAL passover sacrifice. As such, to isolate it as a temporal event is heresy. Unless we believe that Christ didn’t die for the sins of current mankind, only for those alive in 33 AD, then we MUST recognize that Christ’s sacrifice is eternally present to us.

Further, the passover sacrifice, which Christ WAS, demanded that the participants consume the flesh and blood of the lamb. Christ is the final Lamb to be slain, and as such as christians we are REQUIRED by the WORD OF GOD, to consume the Flesh and Blood of Christ… just as Christ stated to us MULTIPLE TIMES in the scriptures.

We are not “persecuting” you directly.

quite incorrect. When they lie about what you believe, try to beat you down with half truths and incorrect/unauthoritative/heretical personal interpretations of scripture, make the church look bad with slanders, etc, they ARE persecuting you.

 

[Cup_o_Joe]

Thank you for the help

 

[jkpreece]

To start, I will let you know that I was a Protestant, and am now Catholic. These theories and questions that this person has are very common. These arguments have some huge weaknesses though:

1. The Bible is a Catholic book. When one reads all portions of the Bible together, one can see that many Protestant arguments simply fall apart. Other errors are in guess-work of the personal interpreters. For instance, I used to say, "Simon the Rock means Simon Peter (Rock) was the rock of faith). The bible does not say this outright however, and can not be backed up when looked upon closely.
2. They don’t know any better. So many lies are taught to Protestants about the Catholic Church, including the idea that Indulgence selling was Doctrinal.

That person did take many bible verses out of context and doesn’t really understand the Catholic Faith. I wouldn’t get too worked up about it. Pray for them and if you must say anything, give them some good reading material. I wouldn’t really hold up an argument or conversation though. This website has so many wonderful writings defending the Catholic Faith.
Also for more references, maybe check out Rome Sweet Home, The Four Witnesses, and Crossing the Tiber. There are tons more out there, but I highly recommend these. This will really help you with understanding the Catholic Faith better.

 

[Cup_o_Joe]

Okay thanks everyone. I was just banned from that forum, their game servers and voice-chat rooms for continuously supporting the church. Could we please delete this thread now to avoid conflict between websites please? I noticed that I can see this thread from google. Thanks for your help everyone.

 

[Church_Militant]

Okay thanks everyone. I was just banned from that forum, their game servers and voice-chat rooms for continuously supporting the church. Could we please delete this thread now to avoid conflict between websites please? I noticed that I can see this thread from google. Thanks for your help everyone.

Oh well, if that is the worst that happens to you in life then you are well ahead of the game right?

If they are playing CoD4 or WaW, be sure to make a special point of nailing them because you are a good player as well as a good Catholic. http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/fight5-1.gif

I have a buddy on those games who always has something to say about the faith in game when we run across each other and it’s led to some good discussions, but I don’t pay him much attention mainly because he’s not very good and can’t seem to decide whether he wants to preach or play the game. Everyone else tends to mute him or tell him to shut up.

I often remind him that the Bible also says, "For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven: " (Ecclesiastes 3:1)

 

[Cup_o_Joe]

Hi everyone, thanks again for your help.

All Catholics who have a or are thinking of getting a steam account are welcome to this online steam gaming group. A Christian gaming group where you will never be persecuted for being Catholic Christians. :hug3: You will feel welcome and accepted as a fellow Christians in this group because it is intended specifically for Catholics . Everyone is welcome, :yup: you can access the group by either clicking the link in my signature or the image below, hope to play with you soon :

Roman Catholic Gaming (RC †)
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/9299/39982591.jpg

:grouphug:

The link follows to the Catholic.com group for this gaming group :extrahappy:

 

[Jason_Cramer]

Michael Francis,
Your privatemessage about banding me off of the forum forever is of little concern to me but what is of concern is your statement of the reason. My reply to your silly little message concerning your attacks was a statement regarding that you seem to prefer those whom attack the Holy Roman Catholic Church to someone that is actually on the forum searching for the Truth. And it was in that light that I made the comment that you can have him with your Psychologist, Homesexual Priests. It was a comment of the relationship between that individual attacks on my attempt to find the Way and those that should not be Priests.It was not an attack from me against all of the Priests in the Church. I have got every religious right to protect my mind from harm and your attack on me by your message condemning me in a harsh manner have violated that very constitutional religious rights we have in this country.Your false accusations is duly noted. The Holy Spirit will always be my guide and not ignorant individuals like you. By the way I can come up with new aliases all day long. So much for banding forever.

                                               It is the Lord whom has Bless me greatly,
                                               Donald R. Wilkerson
                                               Alias, donalddon5

 

[Cup_o_Joe]

To make sure everyone is clear, if you see a website that says anything like this in their “mission statement”, (in orange) only approach people who want to learn about the church in private messages to make sure you do not get banned the first time you try to post pro life, moral or catholic stuff.
a christian site:

ARTICLE IV. What The “group” Believes

Section 8. We believe that the salvation of sinners is wholly of grace through faith in the blood sacrifice, death, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ; that all who receive Him are born again by the Holy Spirit and become children of God; that no rite, ceremony, or work can avail one bit for the sinner’s salvation or make the believer’s salvation more secure; that Christ is the only and all sufficient Savior, and He will never leave those He saves.

Section 9. We believe that all the blessing of salvation are made possible by the gospel; that there is no contradiction between the election of God and the choice of men: that it is the immediate duty of all to accept the gospel by faith and that nothing prevents the salvation of the sinner but his own depravity and rejection of the gospel.

Section 11. We believe that sanctification for the believer is immediate, upon the acceptance of Christ, and progressive, continuing to the end of earthly life; and that the progressive phase is carried on in the hearts of believers by the presence and power of the Holy Spirit in the continual use of the appointed means, such as the study of God’s Word, self-examination, self-denial, prayer, soul-winning and faithful attendance at a fundamental church .

Section 13. We believe that The “group”, in effect, is a church composed of regenerated believers, voluntarily united for the purpose of worship, edification, fellowship, and service; that the true mission of the church is the faithful witnessing of Christ to all men and women as we have opportunity in our game servers, forums and TeamSpeak server unto the uttermost parts of the earth; that The “group” has absolute right of self-government, free from the interference of any hierarchy of individuals or organizations, religious or political; that the one and only superintendent is Christ, through the Holy Spirit; that it is scriptural for like clans to cooperate with each other (other groups) but that The “group” Council is sole judge of the measure and method of its cooperation; and that on all matters of membership, policy of government, discipline, and benevolence, the will of the The “group” Council is final**.**

Section 15. We Believe that the Lord’s Supper is a commemoration of the Lord’s death until He comes again; and that in this ordinance the Lord’s table should be open to all regenerated persons in fellowship and obedience to Christ.

Section 16. We believe in the literal, bodily, personal, and imminent coming of our Lord in the air to catch away believers; also in the personal, visible, and glorious return of Christ to earth at the close of the tribulation period to judge the nations and set up the millennial kingdom on earth.

Section 17. We believe that the souls of the redeemed are, at death, absent from the body and present with the Lord, where, in conscious bliss, they await the first resurrection; and that the souls of the lost remain, after death, in conscious misery until the second resurrection.

Section 18. We believe in the bodily resurrection of the dead, the saved to everlasting blessedness at the coming of Christ, and, one thousand years later, the lost to the judgment at the Great White Throne and then to everlasting conscious punishment in the Lake of Fire.

 

[Cup_o_Joe]

a christian site:

ARTICLE V. MEMBERSHIP
Section 1. Membership in this Clan shall consist of people who
a. have received and confessed Jesus Christ as their personal Savior and Lord
b. have been accepted by majority vote of (group) Council.

Section 2. The candidate shall be required to state his acceptance and adherence to the Articles of Faith as stated in The (group) Constitution before receiving the privileges of membership.
Section 5. It is the duty of the members to honor and respect the decisions of the Council
as fitting unto the Lord;
to pray for them fervently and to guard their reputation (Romans 13:1, John 19:10-11).

Section 6. It is the duty of each member to cultivate and cherish brotherly love for all other members of the community, and to show this love by using all proper ways to promote their spiritual benefit, prosperity and fellowship.

Section 7. Toward those who are not connected with the group, it is the duty of the members to be exact in fulfilling obligations and performing promises; and as opportunity and ability may enable, to commend the Gospel to them (Matthew 5:37).

Section 8. A person must be a member of “group” in good standing before holding a council position. A person must qualify scripturaly and spiritually for any office in The group.

Section 9. Purity of “group” administration is of vital importance to her spiritual welfare. It shall be, therefore, the duty of the “group” Council to exclude from The “group” any member living in disregard of Biblical obligation. Diligent efforts shall be made to reclaim the wayward brother/sister.It is recognized that when the “group” by regular order and proper vote, determines a course of action, that course becomes the duty of every member of the “group”.

Section 11. In case of a personal difference between members of The “group”, the Council shall recommend that the parties endeavor to settle their differences in the manner laid down by our Savior in Matthew 18:15-16.

Section 12. The Council shall constitute the discipline committee of “group”, and are instructed to carry out any such cases in the light and spirit of II Thessalonians 3:6-15; and Titus 3:10.

Section 13. The Council is empowered to make rules and regulations concerning the ways in which cases of discipline shall be conducted “in the light of scriptural teaching”.

Be careful when going to evangelical non-denominational “christian” websites that have rules like these, it might have many heresies like mentioned above in orange and red and if you try to present the truth they might even reject the Holy Spirit and ban you. Be careful.

 

[Church_Militant]

Good information Joe.