Catechism vs Scripture

[adamjthompson]

Hello,

My question regards how Catholics view the scriptures, catechisms, and other church teachings/documents.

From reading forums and Q&A’s, it seems to me that Catholics view the catechism as their primary or first rule/authority in life. (The catechisms being the church’s interpretation of the Bible, which of course makes the Bible the ultimate authority.)

From what I can tell, a Catholic usually first goes to the catechisms to answer questions regarding life, theology, etc.

As a protestant, I would usually go to the Bible first, and perhaps use a catechism or commentary to help me understand the scriptures. But I would usually go directly to the Bible first to answer a question. It seems that Catholics tend to do the opposite, though - go to the catechism first and foremost.

Is this an accurate perception? In the Catholic view, what are the positions of the Bible and the catechisms/church documents?

Thanks,
Adam

 

[andrewagill]

For myself, I look to the Scriptures first, but frequently find that it is difficult to find an explanation of a theological point.

The Bible, for example, says nothing about abortion, which is clearly the greatest evil of today, and surely existed in biblical times.

If I look in a concordance for that word, I come up with nothing, but if I look in the index of a catechism, I can flip to the right page (or even click the hyperlink, since it’s online) and find a commentary on abortion that gives many citations to Scripture.

A catechism in this sense has a similar role to the Talmud–a commentary on the Scriptures that gives the teaching of the Church (or in the Talmud’s case, the rabbis). It’s easy to overlook a particular point of Scripture or to use flawed reasoning to come to the wrong conclusions, and a catechism will help to provide an explanation from someone learned in the Scriptures and the teachings of previous church leaders.

 

[peregrinus_sg]

For Catholics, Scripture and Sacred Tradition form the one single deposit of the Word of God. Furthermore, the Magisterium of the Church (the teaching authority of the Bishops in communion with the Pope) continues the Apostolic authority of teaching today, and authoritatively hands on and interprets the Word of God in Scripture and Tradition under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Just as Jesus reminded his apostles that whoever hears them listens to Jesus himself, so when the Bishops teach, they make present the teachings of Jesus himself.

Thus, Catholics use the Bible, the Catechism, the teachings of Popes and Bishops, the writings and lives of Saints, liturgical texts etc to grow in their knowledge and fidelity to Christ’s will.

This doesn’t mean that Catholics neglect Scripture. It has its proper place in the Church, but is not a substitute for the Church.

 

[Corki]

Hello,

My question regards how Catholics view the scriptures, catechisms, and other church teachings/documents.

From reading forums and Q&A’s, it seems to me that Catholics view the catechism as their primary or first rule/authority in life. (The catechisms being the church’s interpretation of the Bible, which of course makes the Bible the ultimate authority.)

From what I can tell, a Catholic usually first goes to the catechisms to answer questions regarding life, theology, etc.

As a protestant, I would usually go to the Bible first, and perhaps use a catechism or commentary to help me understand the scriptures. But I would usually go directly to the Bible first to answer a question. It seems that Catholics tend to do the opposite, though - go to the catechism first and foremost.

Is this an accurate perception? In the Catholic view, what are the positions of the Bible and the catechisms/church documents?

Thanks,
Adam

How do you know where to look in the Bible when you go to it first? Most Protestants that I know use a concordance as their first step and then go to the Bible. How is that any different than going to the CCC which points to the Bible? Using the Catechism first has the added advantage of referencing early Church Fathers and theologians who have written over the last 2000 years. It is like a concordance and commentary wrapped up in one volume with the Catechism.

 

[juliamajor]

Scripture and the catechism go hand in hand.scripture is quoted to back a an article of faith.

 

[rocketrob]

My question regards how Catholics view the scriptures, catechisms, and other church teachings/documents…From what I can tell, a Catholic usually first goes to the catechisms to answer questions regarding life, theology, etc…

Adam,
As a former protestant, I can tell you that its a mistake to try and make sweeping generalizations regarding Catholics and their individual faith lives. Its also a mistake to underestimate the Catholic understanding of Sacred Scripture…not that you’re necessarily doing so. But I once did.

The Catechism presents the fundamental contents of Catholic doctrine in regards to faith and morals. It can be considered a life application of the revealed deposit of faith, composed of both Sacred Scripture (written Word of God) and Sacred Tradition (oral Word of God). The complete Word of God, Who is Jesus Himself, forms the complete deposit of faith. All Catholic doctrine is based on this deposit of faith, and is therefore consistent with Sacred Scripture and Tradition. These components of the faith do not contradict each other, but rather support each other in transmitting the full revealed Gospel to subsequent generations of Christian faithful.

rocketrob

 

[COPLAND_3]

Hello,

My question regards how Catholics view the scriptures, catechisms, and other church teachings/documents.

From reading forums and Q&A’s, it seems to me that Catholics view the catechism as their primary or first rule/authority in life. (The catechisms being the church’s interpretation of the Bible, which of course makes the Bible the ultimate authority.)

From what I can tell, a Catholic usually first goes to the catechisms to answer questions regarding life, theology, etc.

As a protestant, I would usually go to the Bible first, and perhaps use a catechism or commentary to help me understand the scriptures. But I would usually go directly to the Bible first to answer a question. It seems that Catholics tend to do the opposite, though - go to the catechism first and foremost.

Is this an accurate perception? In the Catholic view, what are the positions of the Bible and the catechisms/church documents?

Thanks,
Adam

Great question!

The Catechism is an authorized interpretation of our Christian Faith, which is not in competition with the Bible by any means, but in complete harmony with it. The Catechism should be used by Catholics to give correct answers to what the Church teaches and what Catholics should believe about their Faith. The Catechism uses the Bible in order to explain what the Church teaches, and it should not be used as a replacement to the Bible.

The Bible on the other hand, is the written Word of God, but it does not interpret itself, and not all interpretations are right or equal. There are many parts of the Bible that cannot be understood in more than one way and requires a dogmatic position and a binding Faith in it. That is where a Bible only position is not enough, and an authoritative definition is needed in order to clarify what is meant. We as Catholics believe that the Catholic Church continues to exercise the same apostolic teaching authority that the Apostles had 2000 years ago, and that is why we are careful to seek out what the Church teaches on something as important as Scripture, because out of 100 people who pick up a Bible, there can be 100 completely different interpretations.

 

[NHInsider]

We must distinguish, however, the unique position of Scripture within Tradition. No other written document, whether it be catechism, encyclical, Declaration or papal bull, shares that position. Holy Scripture (so designated by the Church) is Inspired. It is the Word of God - albeit it is the written Word, a witness to the Logos, the Living Word, whose Body is the Church.

Catechisms come and go. They are products of their time and place. The Catechism of the Catholic Church is the official teaching of the Church, which makes it vastly more reliable than the opinions of whichever “expert” you may be having a disagreement with. It carries the official stamp of approval of the Church. I think the reason you see it cited frequently here is that - people are trying to cite the official position of the Church, often to contrast that teaching with someone’s assertion or personal interpretation of Scripture.

The Catechism is easy to reach for and reference. It has a table of context and an index. It has hundreds, perhaps thousands of Scripture references, both in the text and in the footnotes, as well as references to nearly 2000 years of Christian scholarship. But it is not inspired. And no one would sit and read the Catechism as a daily prayer - but millions of Catholics pray the Scriptures every day.

Hope that helps

 

[NHInsider]

The Catechism is easy to reach for and reference. It has a table of context and an index.

umm - Table of Contents.

oops.

 

[CWBetts]

Hello,

My question regards how Catholics view the scriptures, catechisms, and other church teachings/documents.

From reading forums and Q&A’s, it seems to me that Catholics view the catechism as their primary or first rule/authority in life. (The catechisms being the church’s interpretation of the Bible, which of course makes the Bible the ultimate authority.)

From what I can tell, a Catholic usually first goes to the catechisms to answer questions regarding life, theology, etc.

As a protestant, I would usually go to the Bible first, and perhaps use a catechism or commentary to help me understand the scriptures. But I would usually go directly to the Bible first to answer a question. It seems that Catholics tend to do the opposite, though - go to the catechism first and foremost.

Is this an accurate perception? In the Catholic view, what are the positions of the Bible and the catechisms/church documents?

Thanks,
Adam

I think the problem here is you are thinking in trerms of either/or. You seem to think that we must choose either the Catechism or the Bible. We use both the Bible and the Catechism. In fact, the Catechism references Scriture so much, using both is very beneficial. Think of the Catechism as a sort of comprehensive study guide for the Catholic faith that references the source documents for our beliefs, regardless of whether they are outlined explicitly in Scripture (the Real Presence in the Eucharist) or merely inferred (the Trinity).

 

[JesusOnlyWay]

ILL ANSWER YOUR QUESTION

Error (Rcc Catechism) vs. Truth (Holy Bible)
Error Vs. Truth RCC Catechism

1. Mary is the Mother of God. 963, 917, 2677

Bible- Mary was the Earthly Mother of Jesus (John 2:1)

Catechism 2.
Peter was the Head of the Apostles [552,768,880]

Bible - Christ was the Head of the apostles (John 13:13)

Catechism
3. Mary was a virgin Forever, During, and after the birth of Christ, 496-511

Bible Mary was a virgin until of Christ(Matthew 1:25). Later she had other children (Matthew 13:55, Psalms 69:8)

Catechism
2. The Bishop, is the Successor Of the Apostle [861-862, 936]

Bible - The Apostles had no Successor, for to Succeed them one needed to be a witness of Christ’s Resurrection (Acts 1:21, 22)

Catechism 3.
The Pope, as the bishop of Rome, is the successor of Peter [882, 938]

Bible -Peter had no Successor Catechism

1. The bishop, with Popes as their head, rules the universal Church [883, 894-896]. Bible -Christ, the Head of the Body, Rules the Universal Churches (Colossians 1:18)

Catechism 5.
God has Entrusted revelation to the Roman Catholic Bishops [81, 86]

Bible - God has Entrusted revelation to the Saints (Jude 3)

Catechism 6. The Magisterium is the authoritative teacher of the Church [85, 87]

Bible - The Holy Spirit is the authoritative teacher of the Church (John 14:26; 16:13; 1 John 2:27)

Catechism 8.
The Pope is infallible interpreter of the Scripture [891]

Bible -God Alone is infallible (Numbers 23:19)

Catechism 9. The Magisterium alone has the ability and the right to interpret the Scripture [85, 100, 939]

Bible -Every Christian, aided by the Holy Spirit, has Ability and the right to interpret the Scripture (Acts 17:11; 1 Corinthians 2:12-16)

Catechism 10.
Scripture is to be interpreted in the sense in which it has been define by the Magisterium [113, 119]

Bible - Scripture must be Interpreted in the original sense intended by the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 3:14 -16)

Catechism 11.
The Magisterium has the right to define truth found only obscurely or implicitly of the revelation [66, 82

Bible - No One has right to go beyond what is written in Scripture (1 Corinthians 4:6, Proverbs 30:6)

Catechism 12.
The Scripture and Tradition together are the Word of God [81, 85, 97, and 182]

Bible -Scripture is the Word of God (John 10:35; 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20, 21). Tradition is the Words of men (Mark 7:1-13)

Catechism 13.
Scripture and the Tradition together are the Church’s Supreme rule of Faith [80, 82]

Bible -Scripture is the Church’s only Rule of Faith (Mark 7:7-13, 2 Timothy 3:16, 17)

 

[Rolltide]

Fortunately, JesusOnlyWay, the Catechism makes heavy use of citations, not only from the Bible, but other historical and church documents. Through the Catechism, one can read the entire context of the Church’s interpretation of a doctrine, and see precisely why we believe the way we do. All of your points above are easily refuted, and have been answered time and time and time again on this site.

 

[tobinatorstark]

Hello,

My question regards how Catholics view the scriptures, catechisms, and other church teachings/documents.

From reading forums and Q&A’s, it seems to me that Catholics view the catechism as their primary or first rule/authority in life. (The catechisms being the church’s interpretation of the Bible, which of course makes the Bible the ultimate authority.)

From what I can tell, a Catholic usually first goes to the catechisms to answer questions regarding life, theology, etc.

As a protestant, I would usually go to the Bible first, and perhaps use a catechism or commentary to help me understand the scriptures. But I would usually go directly to the Bible first to answer a question. It seems that Catholics tend to do the opposite, though - go to the catechism first and foremost.

Is this an accurate perception? In the Catholic view, what are the positions of the Bible and the catechisms/church documents?

Thanks,
Adam

read the Bible in light of the Catechism. The Catechism not only contains scripture, but sacred tradition and magisterial teaching. We are to read the scripture in light of tradition

 

[chaunceygardner]

Hello,

My question regards how Catholics view the scriptures, catechisms, and other church teachings/documents.

From reading forums and Q&A’s, it seems to me that Catholics view the catechism as their primary or first rule/authority in life. (The catechisms being the church’s interpretation of the Bible, which of course makes the Bible the ultimate authority.)

From what I can tell, a Catholic usually first goes to the catechisms to answer questions regarding life, theology, etc.

As a protestant, I would usually go to the Bible first, and perhaps use a catechism or commentary to help me understand the scriptures. But I would usually go directly to the Bible first to answer a question. It seems that Catholics tend to do the opposite, though - go to the catechism first and foremost.

Is this an accurate perception? In the Catholic view, what are the positions of the Bible and the catechisms/church documents?

Thanks,
Adam

You must realize that the Catholics who participate in these forums are outside the norm. They are way above average when it comes to reading the Bible, the Catechism and other church writings. The Catechism is a teaching tool, giving and explaining Catholic beliefs. As has been stated previously and as can be seen from looking at a Catechism, it has its basis in scripture. If you were to survey American Catholics, I would guess very few would have a copy of the Catechism at home, much less read it. Of course, a minority read the bible on a regular basis, as well.

Your query leads me to the question “from where do Catholics get their knowledge, their answers”? Again, discounting most of those on this forum, I don’t know where they go. We could say where they should be looking for the answers, but do they? That would make a good survey.

My anecdotal evidence is that many Catholics have accumulated a store of belief based on what they have learned (and remember) from years of Religious Education, readings at Mass, homilies, and what they have picked up from the general media and others. What they retain and what they really understand of it is very piecemeal. There is no real systematic way to build on this knowledge, nor is there any program (that I am aware of) that says “This is what you must know to have a good grounding in the Catholic faith”, and then takes them through the process of giving them that knowledge.

As we have read in other postings, Catholics are at a great disadvantage vs. Protestants when it comes to explaining and defending their faith. I have seen that many times.

As to the reliance on the Catechism and other church documents over the bible, I think that is a result of the Catholic education process, and the emphasis over the years that we should look to the Church before the bible to understand our faith. Protestants were led astray by relying only on the bible, and this gave many Catholics the feeling that there was something bad about reading or studying the bible, and that doing so could lead them astray as well. That thought has not yet disappeard from the back of the Catholic mind.

 

[juliamajor]

Catechisms are inter denominational.Catholics are not the only ones who have them.So why are not those denominations being questioned(lutheran, anglican, Calvinist at al)? Or do you have a problem only with Catholics?maybe you should make your criticism more ecumenical?

 

[tobinatorstark]

You must realize that the Catholics who participate in these forums are outside the norm. They are way above average when it comes to reading the Bible, the Catechism and other church writings. The Catechism is a teaching tool, giving and explaining Catholic beliefs. As has been stated previously and as can be seen from looking at a Catechism, it has its basis in scripture. If you were to survey American Catholics, I would guess very few would have a copy of the Catechism at home, much less read it. Of course, a minority read the bible on a regular basis, as well.

Your query leads me to the question “from where do Catholics get their knowledge, their answers”? Again, discounting most of those on this forum, I don’t know where they go. We could say where they should be looking for the answers, but do they? That would make a good survey.

My anecdotal evidence is that many Catholics have accumulated a store of belief based on what they have learned (and remember) from years of Religious Education, readings at Mass, homilies, and what they have picked up from the general media and others. What they retain and what they really understand of it is very piecemeal. There is no real systematic way to build on this knowledge, nor is there any program (that I am aware of) that says “This is what you must know to have a good grounding in the Catholic faith”, and then takes them through the process of giving them that knowledge.

As we have read in other postings, Catholics are at a great disadvantage vs. Protestants when it comes to explaining and defending their faith. I have seen that many times.

As to the reliance on the Catechism and other church documents over the bible, I think that is a result of the Catholic education process, and the emphasis over the years that we should look to the Church before the bible to understand our faith. Protestants were led astray by relying only on the bible, and this gave many Catholics the feeling that there was something bad about reading or studying the bible, and that doing so could lead them astray as well. That thought has not yet disappeard from the back of the Catholic mind./QUOTE]

You couldn’t be further from the truth. I know many Catholics who read their Bibles on a daily basis and I know many who have the Catechism of the Catholic Church and/or Baltimore Catechism and read them too. Protestants are the ones at a disadvantage because of private interpretation which is forbidden in the Bible itself as is Sola Scriptura. The Catechism is not placed over the Bible. It is equal to the Bible. As the Bible is to be read in an trinitarian way. One must not take its words out of context, one must read in light of sacred tradition (which is very biblical to begin with) and one must not open it to private interpretation. The Catechism contains scripture, tradition and magisterial teaching. You can’t have one without the other 2. God gave us the word, the word became flesh and taught us himself (hence oral tradition) and the Holy Spirit interprets it for us. What don’t Protestants understand about that. Catholics have always been encouraged to study and read the Bible. There were no times were the Church forbade such a thing.

 

[chaunceygardner]

You couldn’t be further from the truth. I know many Catholics who read their Bibles on a daily basis and I know many who have the Catechism of the Catholic Church and/or Baltimore Catechism and read them too. Protestants are the ones at a disadvantage because of private interpretation which is forbidden in the Bible itself as is Sola Scriptura. The Catechism is not placed over the Bible. It is equal to the Bible. As the Bible is to be read in an trinitarian way. One must not take its words out of context, one must read in light of sacred tradition (which is very biblical to begin with) and one must not open it to private interpretation. The Catechism contains scripture, tradition and magisterial teaching. You can’t have one without the other 2. God gave us the word, the word became flesh and taught us himself (hence oral tradition) and the Holy Spirit interprets it for us. What don’t Protestants understand about that. Catholics have always been encouraged to study and read the Bible. There were no times were the Church forbade such a thing.

Of course you know “many” Catholics who read their bibles daily and that have the Catechism in their home. Because you do read the bible and you associate with other Catholics that do. I guess I associate with the other kind of Catholic.

The reality is that various surveys, done by Catholic and other organizations, show that regular readership of the bible is low. Certain denominations and nationalities have higher levels, and US Catholics are apparently not the lowest. But we have nothing to be proud of. Less than half of all Catholics read from their bible at least once per week.

Have Catholics “always” been encouraged to study the bible? I am not certain of that. It appears that Catholics are not encouraged to read it without guidance from the Church, to help interpret and understand its messages. That is where the Catechism can help. But to read it all by itself, to read within is own context, to study it, and to think about it. I am not sure about that.

 

[tobinatorstark]

Of course you know “many” Catholics who read their bibles daily and that have the Catechism in their home. Because you do read the bible and you associate with other Catholics that do. I guess I associate with the other kind of Catholic.

The reality is that various surveys, done by Catholic and other organizations, show that regular readership of the bible is low. Certain denominations and nationalities have higher levels, and US Catholics are apparently not the lowest. But we have nothing to be proud of. Less than half of all Catholics read from their bible at least once per week.

Have Catholics “always” been encouraged to study the bible? I am not certain of that. It appears that Catholics are not encouraged to read it without guidance from the Church, to help interpret and understand its messages. That is where the Catechism can help. But to read it all by itself, to read within is own context, to study it, and to think about it. I am not sure about that.

The Holy Spirit is the interpreter. We aren’t to open to private interpretation. I have shown that time and time again on several threads including this thread in last 2 days or so. Why is it that Protestants think that they have the right to interpret scripture in every way imgineable and that everyone has the right to have their own interpretation when in scripture it is clearly stated otherwise?? Same with John 6:53-57. Protestant say they take the Bible in a literal sense (actually literalist sense, which different from literal), but yet they take the Cafeteria Christian approach and view it as symbolism. There is no symbolism in those verses at all. Again scripture mandates scripture, tradition and magisterial teaching. The Church teaching is basically teachings of Christ stemming from scripture and tradition. We are called to preach the Gospel, which involves speaking (oral) and not called to write the Gospel.

 

[CWBetts]

Of course you know “many” Catholics who read their bibles daily and that have the Catechism in their home. Because you do read the bible and you associate with other Catholics that do. I guess I associate with the other kind of Catholic.

The reality is that various surveys, done by Catholic and other organizations, show that regular readership of the bible is low. Certain denominations and nationalities have higher levels, and US Catholics are apparently not the lowest. But we have nothing to be proud of. Less than half of all Catholics read from their bible at least once per week.

Have Catholics “always” been encouraged to study the bible? I am not certain of that. It appears that Catholics are not encouraged to read it without guidance from the Church, to help interpret and understand its messages. That is where the Catechism can help. But to read it all by itself, to read within is own context, to study it, and to think about it. I am not sure about that.

“Yo be ignorant of the Scriptures is to be ignorant of Christ” DO you know who said that ? St. Jerome So yes, knowledge of the Scriptures has always been encouraged.

 

[chaunceygardner]

The Holy Spirit is the interpreter. We aren’t to open to private interpretation. I have shown that time and time again on several threads including this thread in last 2 days or so. Why is it that Protestants think that they have the right to interpret scripture in every way imgineable and that everyone has the right to have their own interpretation when in scripture it is clearly stated otherwise??

Probably because one can see that the authors of the Gospels interpreted Jesus differently, that Paul and other disciples interpreted Jesus differently, that early church leaders interpreted Jesus differently. A lot of “private interpretation” going on there.

I accept the Holy Spirit as the interpreter and will therefore listen to what the Spirit tells me. Do you presume that the Holy Spirit can and does only communicate through one person or body? Since that wasn’t the case in the past (based on scripture and church tradition), I don’t see why it should be the case now.