Catechumenate problems

[anjoh66]

Hi !

I am here again with some questions i´ve been thinking about.

If a catechumen was married previously in some form he will not be able to enter into full communion with the church and as such an annulment process must be started, /usually those questions shows up only at the ending of the catechumenate) but if the marriage can not get dissolved what is the church rule?

For example if he/she is not baptized the church will also not baptize s/he what is a such person ought to do in such circumstance?

To be forever lost?

Secondly can a previous married person be accepted in the rite of acceptance before the marriage situation is solved? and as such at least be with some peace and be sure of the baptism of desire because of being a catechumen although there is questions regarding the possibillity of full communion with the church ?

 

[Trishie]

If this is your situation, please speak to your priest.

From the Catholic Catechism
IV. WHO CAN RECEIVE BAPTISM?

1246 “Every person not yet baptized and only such a person is able to be baptized.” [CIC, can. 864; cf. CCEO, can. 679]

In the official Catholic Catechism I found no reference that anyone should be excluded from Baptism. Hopefully you will receive informed advice regarding your questions from your priest.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Hi !

I am here again with some questions i´ve been thinking about.

If a catechumen was married previously in some form he will not be able to enter into full communion with the church and as such an annulment process must be started, /usually those questions shows up only at the ending of the catechumenate) but if the marriage can not get dissolved what is the church rule?

For example if he/she is not baptized the church will also not baptize s/he what is a such person ought to do in such circumstance?

To be forever lost?

Secondly can a previous married person be accepted in the rite of acceptance before the marriage situation is solved? and as such at least be with some peace and be sure of the baptism of desire because of being a catechumen although there is questions regarding the possibillity of full communion with the church ?

Wrong the issue of Marriages should be discovered in the original interview and Inquiry stage. They should also clearly understand that it is possible that the Tribunal might return an unfavorable response that would prevent them from being Baptized in the current situation.

 

[anjoh66]

Wrong the issue of Marriages should be discovered in the original interview and Inquiry stage. They should also clearly understand that it is possible that the Tribunal might return an unfavorable response that would prevent them from being Baptized in the current situation.

It is not my situation but the question is if the church will accept such persons as catechumens or must the issue of marriage be resolved first?

I am quoting from a swedish website dealing with the catechumenate and is authorized by our bishop. They say in that site that if you are a godfather or supporter of a catechumen or candidate it sometimes happens that such questions will be found only in the ending phase of the catechumenate and therefore can arise problems that an eventual annulment or likewise will not be done in time and then they will not be able to be baptized which can cause dissappointment.

And therefore it is necessary that such problems must be discovered in the beginning so that those things can be dealt with as quick as possible as it can take long time to solve them if even possible, anyhow actions can be taken in a proper time.

But i am asking, if a person in the inquiry stage says that s/he was married previously no matter if it is legal or not, can such a person still participate in the rite of acceptance and as such be counted as a catechumen before the marriage question is solved?

Or must a person be fully able to enter into communion with the church before the catechumenate?

 

[Deacon_Ed]

In my diocese we will not accept a person into the Rite of Acceptance with a pending marriage issue. The reason for that is that after the Rite of Acceptance one has certain rights as a limited member of the Church. Because of the sanctity of marriage we cannot accept someone who is in an irregular union because that would imply a lessening of the importance of the Church’s teachings with regard to marriage or an acceptance of the irregular union.

And, yes, in our initial interviews we discuss marriage situations, not only for the inquirer but also the inquirer’s spouse!

Deacon Ed

 

[FrDavid96]

Wrong the issue of Marriages should be discovered in the original interview and Inquiry stage. They should also clearly understand that it is possible that the Tribunal might return an unfavorable response that would prevent them from being Baptized in the current situation.

Interresting…
Can we say that a prior marriage is an impediment to baptism? Can there be any impediments to baptism other than a prior baptism? I just wonder…

Policy might be one thing, but an outright impediment is something else. Just thinking aloud.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

It is not my situation but the question is if the church will accept such persons as catechumens or must the issue of marriage be resolved first?

I am quoting from a swedish website dealing with the catechumenate and is authorized by our bishop. They say in that site that if you are a godfather or supporter of a catechumen or candidate it sometimes happens that such questions will be found only in the ending phase of the catechumenate and therefore can arise problems that an eventual annulment or likewise will not be done in time and then they will not be able to be baptized which can cause dissappointment.

And therefore it is necessary that such problems must be discovered in the beginning so that those things can be dealt with as quick as possible as it can take long time to solve them if even possible, anyhow actions can be taken in a proper time.

But i am asking, if a person in the inquiry stage says that s/he was married previously no matter if it is legal or not, can such a person still participate in the rite of acceptance and as such be counted as a catechumen before the marriage question is solved?

Or must a person be fully able to enter into communion with the church before the catechumenate?

I know of nothing that specifically prevents a person with the pastors permission from going through the Rite of Acceptance. Just because a Prior Marriage is found valid does not itself prevent a person from being Baptized. But instead, in that case it would be their refusal to correct the situation by separating (in some way) from the person to whom they are not and cannot at this time be Married.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Interresting…
Can we say that a prior marriage is an impediment to baptism? Can there be any impediments to baptism other than a prior baptism? I just wonder…

Policy might be one thing, but an outright impediment is something else. Just thinking aloud.

The distinction is important.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I don’t see anyone addressing the difference between someone who is divorced and remarried versus someone who is divorced and living singly.

 

[anjoh66]

I don’t see anyone addressing the difference between someone who is divorced and remarried versus someone who is divorced and living singly.

I guess thats because if they live as singles it wont be the same problem, then the problem will arise later if they wanna marry.
But thats another story

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I don’t see anyone addressing the difference between someone who is divorced and remarried versus someone who is divorced and living singly.

There is a great difference. The Church holds Someone who is divorced and living single if they did not cause or initiate the divorce as the innocent spouse. Initiating or causing a divorce can be sinful if it is done without sufficient reason. (fear of harm, safety of children, protection of property, etc.) Being divorced does not prohibit someone from being Baptized or Received into the Church.

Divorce and remarriage while the previous spouse is still living is absolutely prohibited by the Church and is the gravely sinful act of adultery.

Being Divorced and re-married does.

 

[1ke]

Hi !

I am here again with some questions i´ve been thinking about.

If a catechumen was married previously in some form he will not be able to enter into full communion with the church and as such an annulment process must be started, /usually those questions shows up only at the ending of the catechumenate)

I don’t know why you think a prior marriage would “usually” show up at the end. The very first inquirer form requests marital status/prior marriage info. This is known up front.

but if the marriage can not get dissolved what is the church rule?

From your subsequent post it is clear you mean a person who has been married previously and is now married to someone else. A divorced person who has not remarried may enter the Church without a decree of nullity.

A person who has a divorce/remarriage situation and wants to be baptized will need to go through the nullity process and/or petition for dissolution of the bond via the Pauline or Petrine privilege. This is unique to their circumstances and it must be done.

If the petitions are not granted, the person does still have the ability to enter the Church. They must separate from or live in continence with the “spouse” they have now until such time as the marriage can become valid (death of prior spouse, etc). They would be guided in this by the priest.

So, you see, it is not impossible for them to enter the Church. They must be willing to live in conformity to the moral law.

Secondly can a previous married person be accepted in the rite of acceptance before the marriage situation is solved? and as such at least be with some peace and be sure of the baptism of desire because of being a catechumen although there is questions regarding the possibillity of full communion with the church ?

This likely varies by diocese. In our diocese only those who will enter at Easter can go through the Rites. Therefore if their marriage situation is unresolved, they do not go through the Rites.