Categorizing the Church as a CONSERVATIVE OR LIBERAL

[EasterJoy]

But the church does not predate political ideology, so it can be classified according to an ideology.

There are not any political ideologies that have been in vogue straight through since the founding of the Church. There are lines of thought that were written about by the Greeks or Romans, put on a shelf for centuries, and dusted off again, but nothing that guided the Church.

Besides, to classify the teaching of the Church as an ideology is like classifying a marriage as a civil contract. It falls too far short. There is no grace implied in an ideology or a contract. The religion or a marriage that does not operate on the presumption that grace is necessary to comprehend it is hardly worthy of the name!

 

[Judas_The_Rock]

Are you serious?

Conservatism was largely posited by thinkers like Edmund Burke, etc.
Liberalism is so new, that “Classical Liberalism” is an entirely different set of beliefs from the liberalism that we know today. Of course, that is an historical term… people during those times would have simply called it liberalism as well, yet it was “Classical Liberalism”

In the early days of the Church there wasn’t even much political thought. The world was run by empires, monarchies, and smaller states. Most of “politics” was simply tribalism and ethnic conflict.

The Catholic Church is the oldest extent institution in the world. You can look that up. Many secular scholars have agreed with this claim.

There are not any political ideologies that have been in vogue straight through since the founding of the Church. There are lines of thought that were written about by the Greeks or Romans, put on a shelf for centuries, and dusted off again, but nothing that guided the Church.

Besides, to classify the teaching of the Church as an ideology is like classifying a marriage as a civil contract. It falls too far short. There is no grace implied in an ideology or a contract. The religion or a marriage that does not operate on the presumption that grace is necessary to comprehend it is hardly worthy of the name!

If we take ideology to mean: “a set of conscious and unconscious ideas that constitute one’s goals, expectations, and actions.”

Than the church has an ideology. Maybe it is unique enough to be its form of ideology, but that would be semantics.

 

[EasterJoy]

If we take ideology to mean: “a set of conscious and unconscious ideas that constitute one’s goals, expectations, and actions.”

Than the church has an ideology. Maybe it is unique enough to be its form of ideology, but that would be semantics.

An ideology is a system of ideas–it is all in the intellect. When it is more than that, you have something that is more than mere ideology. Ideas are powerful, yes, but there is nothing supernatural about an ideology. An ideology is not a relationship. It is trust in an idea or set of ideas, not a trust in a personal deity.

 

[Judas_The_Rock]

An ideology is a system of ideas–it is all in the intellect. When it is more than that, you have something that is more than mere ideology. Ideas are powerful, yes, but there is nothing supernatural about an ideology. An ideology is not a relationship. It is trust in an idea or set of ideas, not a trust in a personal deity.

So correct me if I’m misinterpreting what you are saying here. If the church wasn’t at all supernatural, they were just another cult, or whatever, you would admit they are guided by ideology?

 

[jtkalehua88]

I’m not Conservative, I’m not Liberal. I’m a proud CATHOLIC Hispanic and Native Hawaiian American. And my loyalty belongs to God, the Trinity, Our Blessed Mother, Our Holy Father and his Holy Magisterium!

 

[Mayita30]

I’m not Conservative, I’m not Liberal. I’m a proud CATHOLIC Hispanic and Native Hawaiian American. And my loyalty belongs to God, the Trinity, Our Blessed Mother, Our Holy Father and his Holy Magisterium!

 

[Judas_The_Rock]

 

[EasterJoy]

So correct me if I’m misinterpreting what you are saying here. If the church wasn’t at all supernatural, they were just another cult, or whatever, you would admit they are guided by ideology?

If I were dead and decomposing, then I’d be nothing more than just a carcass. If the Church were not supernatural, then yes, I suppose what were left of it would be just an ideology, in the sense that if I were dead what was left of me would be just a carcass. It is not a great analogy, but that is the sense in which you could talk about what the Church would be if it “wasn’t at all supernatural.”

A cult, however, is not an ideology. Ideologies can imitate religions, but a religion that has become nothing more than an ideology is a dead thing. Even a false religion animated by a deceptive spirit has more to it than mere ideology.

 

[Judas_The_Rock]

If I were dead and decomposing, then I’d be nothing more than just a carcass. If the Church were not supernatural, then yes, I suppose what were left of it would be just an ideology, in the sense that if I were dead what was left of me would be just a carcass. It is not a great analogy, but that is the sense in which you could talk about what the Church would be if it “wasn’t at all supernatural.”

A cult, however, is not an ideology. Ideologies can imitate religions, but a religion that has become nothing more than an ideology is a dead thing. Even a false religion animated by a deceptive spirit has more to it than mere ideology.

And that’s all I wanted to hear.

 

[DMC12]

what the heck !!! The pope is not even American.

sorry to bring this up, and really don t know if im just being prideful, but he is American, he is from Argentina, really i feel like if when you say that, you mean like only the United States is America.

 

[EasterJoy]

And that’s all I wanted to hear.

Keep in mind it is not a great analogy. I mean to say that the term “ideology” refers only to a set of ideas, and can be a thing disconnected from actual life. A mere set of ideas can lack natural humanity. To call a religion imbued with supernatural grace an “ideology” is to reduce it to a relatively lifeless thing. When a Christian lives the faith as if it were an ideology, when Our Lord is thought of merely as the source of a praiseworthy ideology, a pleasant figure who is admired but with whom one has no I-Thou relationship, it is a spiritual crisis. It really is.