Catholic “Ghetto”: a good thing?

[Murmurs]

I don’t think we can separate ourselves from the world around us, but at the same time we must set a standard for our worship. It seems that Catholic worship is continually being watered down by the surrounding culture and we are accepting it because that is what we do with everything else. Maybe there should be a very sharp line between what is Catholic/Christian and what is not. We aren’t just like everyone else with some fellowship on Sunday and some nice humanitarian ideals. Christianity is a radical idea. Everyone claims love as an ideal. What makes Christianity different? Are we just really enthusiastic humanists?

I think that’s the point.

I suppose if you excised the divinity of Christ and everything that follows from it, then what you have left is basically “enthusiastic humanism”. Obviously that’s not really His message of itself, though.

But what this (the fact it’s more “complex” than enthusiastic humanism) means, is that we can’t just protect our radical idea by walling it off and practising and protecting it ourselves. Though a ghetto is ultimately just a word (as roseofshannon already said) meaning a distinct part of a city where people of one religious/cultural/ethnic community live, I think it was clearly used in the OP’s article to mean a deliberate (if limited) “cutting-off” from the world. Now it’s obviously only my opinion but I think this is pretty much diametrically opposed to what Christ asked of us in the first place.

It is enough, for ourselves, to maintain and practice our faith, I suppose, in terms of ticking all the right boxes that gives the greatest chance of our own salvation. Creating Catholic ghettos probably does that very well.

But I think it runs so counter to the spirit (for want of a better word!) of the Son of God, and so very many of the saints through twenty centuries since His time among us on Earth, that it should be borderline anathema to any Catholic who is not in immediate danger of life or limb for living their faith openly and for whom actual martyrdom is perhaps not viable.

Yes we have our own Catholic communities around our own parish, or the diocese, or in relation to a religious house, etc - but I think unless we have actually found a personal call towards being an enclosed religious, it’s not practical, helpful, or frankly very healthy for our faith.

PS. Happy New Year :whackadoo:

 

[Peter_J]

Though a ghetto is ultimately just a word (as roseofshannon already said) meaning a distinct part of a city where people of one religious/cultural/ethnic community live,

You (both of you) are right, and I have to concede that a monastery is a literal ghetto. But if someone simply said “Catholic ghetto” without elaboration I would not assume he/she meant it in that sense.

In other words, I don’t believe that Grassl’s ideas can be justified by saying that we already have “Catholic ghettos” in the form of homeschool groups, parish schools, charismatic communities, Latin Mass communities, Opus Dei, Regnum Christi, and homesteaders.

… I think it was clearly used in the OP’s article to mean a deliberate (if limited) “cutting-off” from the world. Now it’s obviously only my opinion but I think this is pretty much diametrically opposed to what Christ asked of us in the first place.

+1

P.S. Btw, nice to see you back so soon. (I guess you took the “back after the New Year” thing very seriously. )

 

[Peter_J]

Originally Posted by Peter J
I feel like I missed something here … am I to understand that homeschool groups, parish schools, charismatic communities, Latin Mass communities, Opus Dei, Regnum Christi, and homesteaders are Catholic “ghettos”?

Yes, I think that designation keeps the issues clearer.

 

[runningdude]

When I heard about “Christian Ghettoism” in the past I was taken aback because I had always equated the word “ghetto” with slums.

Now I’ve come to understand that it can also simply mean:
“a part of a city in which members of a minority group live, especially because of social, legal, or economic pressure.”

The term has always been used to mean the slums that undesirable minorities were pressured into. The “ghetto” was never nicer, nor even separate but equal. In 1800’s Russia, and 1930’s Nazi Germany, Jews were locked behind the Ghetto gates, despite being dilapidated wooden tenements prone to catching fire.

There is no way around the negative connotation.

I believe Mary and Joseph lived in a “ghetto” where their culture was distinct in religion, dress and customs from the surrounding culture.

No, they were Jews, who lived in a Jewish community, with a Jewish regional king, and active Temple. They were not outsiders. They were free to travel.

Nazareth was only a 100 miles journey to Bethlehem, and Joseph likely had family there who were also of the House of David. They regularly participated in Temple worship in Jerusalem, which was an hour’s walk from Bethlehem. At least baby Jesus’ presentation at the Temple, and his family trip when he was 13 are recorded.

Mary and Jesus were well accepted by their community in Nazareth, evidenced by Jesus being invited to read from the Torah in the local synagog. They were not rejects forced to live outside the camp. For 33 out of Jesus’ 36 years of life on Earth, Jesus was perfectly accepted in his own village.

There was nothing “ghetto” about Jesus, Mary, and Joseph.

 

[KathleenGee]

I live in an increasingly hostile secular environment that is headed by pro abortion and strident gay extremists, along with their collusion with various atheist groups around the country ready to sue anyone who affirms their Christian conscience.

It is getting worse all the time. Our bishop sees us as a tiny minority, but on the other hand, it is a gifted, vibrant one, a beautiful Catholic culture throughout the archdiocese.

What I am also hearing on the news is the rise of sex trafficking, drug use, suicide, sexually transmitted diseases…I live in about the highest casual sex community in the USA…and most supportive of gay marriage to the point it is OK to destroy a family’s livelihood with dependent children. All of this exists in a highly secular, clueless population that is passive, quiet, and bends with the wind.

I am starting to see more now beginning, across the board with churches that are evangelical, of members who live in the same neighborhoods being prepared for small faith communities…with an outreach of mercy to their secular neighbors.

So many times, it is the effect of being in Christian community and laying down our lives for our neighbor when need arises.

We speak out against injustice towards our faith, temper television – and internet viewing, pray more and be more part of our parish life, building strong relationships, making our churches families…and praying for strength to lay down our life for Christ if the need should arise some day.

 

[spedteacherita]

I live in an increasingly hostile secular environment that is headed by pro abortion and strident gay extremists, along with their collusion with various atheist groups around the country ready to sue anyone who affirms their Christian conscience.

It is getting worse all the time. Our bishop sees us as a tiny minority, but on the other hand, it is a gifted, vibrant one, a beautiful Catholic culture throughout the archdiocese.

What I am also hearing on the news is the rise of sex trafficking, drug use, suicide, sexually transmitted diseases…I live in about the highest casual sex community in the USA…and most supportive of gay marriage to the point it is OK to destroy a family’s livelihood with dependent children. All of this exists in a highly secular, clueless population that is passive, quiet, and bends with the wind.

I am starting to see more now beginning, across the board with churches that are evangelical, of members who live in the same neighborhoods being prepared for small faith communities…with an outreach of mercy to their secular neighbors.

So many times, it is the effect of being in Christian community and laying down our lives for our neighbor when need arises.

We speak out against injustice towards our faith, temper television – and internet viewing, pray more and be more part of our parish life, building strong relationships, making our churches families…and praying for strength to lay down our life for Christ if the need should arise some day.

This scripture about sums it all up, don’t you think?

Matthew 7:13-14

13"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

We have to keep our eyes on the Lord and stay on the narrow path. God bless!

Rita

 

[Peter_J]

patheos.com/blogs/yimcatholic/2011/08/for-ghetto-catholicism-not-hardly.html

 

[KathleenGee]

Thanks, Rita!

I watched a program this morning on EWTN and it was on the work of the devil in the world. It made me reaffirm my faith in Christ and that He alone take possession of me, and to pray sincerely, simply. Avoid falling into praying my prayers by rote. Even the devils can mouth along with us.

I also think after the year of Mercy, Our Lord’s justice will come. And we must be ready to forgive these secular forces, and I believe they will see our own Catholic culture for what it is : Christ, Truth, Beauty, being part of the greater universal Church community around the world, and then will want to convert.

So I think the best evangelization is our simply daily witness of kindness and service, our Catholic tv and internet, and most of all prayer…and not look to forms of darkness…just let it go and put it in God’s hands for His victory.

 

[TCEL]

We belong to Our Lady of Loreto. Our Pastor is always saying that our parish’s particular charism is, like Mary, to make room in our hearts and homes for God’s Word to take root. I personally think it’s important to foster a healthy Catholic culture, because doing so will naturally lead to all kinds of good fruit. How often are people telling us to get our own house in order? Granted, sometimes that charge is highly hypocritical, but it surely doesn’t hurt to have oases where we as Catholics can refuel and take a retreat in an ordered home. For me right now, anyway, that is part of my vocation as a mother and homemaker. I am building a culture in our home; it only makes sense that that is an imitation of one of the things the Church should be doing. Then, by God’s grace, our children will be equipped and their cups running over to share with the world. I guess that’s how I understand this issue. Not to mention, the isolation can be suffocating. It’s difficult enough to find friends as it is. I suppose the biggest obstacle to avoid with the Benedict option is cliqueishnes.

 

[HelenRose]

The idea of a Catholic “Ghetto” is not feasible. To begin with:

Catholics are basically well read and well educated. With these advantages, a Catholic “ghetto” in the United States would eventually become quite well-to-do and the government (rightly or wrongly) would soon step in to stop discrimination as people from other religions and cultures will naturally want to move into such a neighborhood. There would be no way Catholics could, or even should want to, maintain an exclusive neighborhood.

 

[HelenRose]

Lay Catholics are called to be out in the world for the betterment of mankind. We are not called to separate ourselves from the dangers of the world but to help where ever we can.

Cloistered nuns and sisters have a different calling and chrism.

 

[Peter_J]

We belong to Our Lady of Loreto. Our Pastor is always saying that our parish’s particular charism is, like Mary, to make room in our hearts and homes for God’s Word to take root. I personally think it’s important to foster a healthy Catholic culture, because doing so will naturally lead to all kinds of good fruit. How often are people telling us to get our own house in order? Granted, sometimes that charge is highly hypocritical, but it surely doesn’t hurt to have oases where we as Catholics can refuel and take a retreat in an ordered home. For me right now, anyway, that is part of my vocation as a mother and homemaker. I am building a culture in our home; it only makes sense that that is an imitation of one of the things the Church should be doing. Then, by God’s grace, our children will be equipped and their cups running over to share with the world. I guess that’s how I understand this issue. Not to mention, the isolation can be suffocating. It’s difficult enough to find friends as it is. I suppose the biggest obstacle to avoid with the Benedict option is cliqueishnes.

I like that you used the word “oases”. Brings back memories of visiting Assisi, and… well too many places to name really. E.g. anytime I visited a monastery.

 

[TCEL]

My Mom told me that when a candidate for Mother Teresa’s Sisters of Charity would apply, she might leave them waiting in the Church for hours to see if they were antsy or left to come looking for her. I think that should be our model. They were very much in the world, but one can’t give what one doesn’t have, and all of our work must be grounded in some kind of monasticism, as our vocation allows. Simply, we all have different gifts, even amongst lay. Mine is a sense of beauty and perception, so that’s what I can try to bequeath in my sphere. Any (true) artist knows that art can’t exist in a vacuum.

 

[Peter_J]

Not that I want to just pile on links, but I found this interesting: patheos.com/blogs/yimcatholic/2011/08/for-ghetto-catholicism-not-hardly.html