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Eric_Hyom
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Churches Together in our town have monthly meetings, where the ministers come together and pray together, our Catholic priest also attends when he can.
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MaryHelp777
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MaryHelp777
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Exactly, solo scriptura means that every single Christian/ protestant makes up their own individual theology,
If only they read all the logic of the Catholic Catechism and Catholic Canon Law, (2017 years of Catholic theology passed down from Jesus to the apostles, to the Church Fathers, to the early Christians, to the saints, to the present church… )
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MaryHelp777
Guest
Friend did you find that their relationship to the Holy Spirit was very similar to the Roman Catholic Charismatic Renewal? Or have you joined the Roman Catholic Charismatic renewal prayer meetings yet?
The Catholic Charismatic Renewal (when genuine and true) has the Holy Spirits charisms and the fullness also of the Catholic.faith: confession, Our Lady, Eucharist etc
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MaryHelp777
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What if hypothetically someone has no Catholic friends their own age, (no Catholic youth groups nearby at all) would it be a bad idea to go to such prayer meetings to find Christian friends instead?
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GladTidings
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Sola scriptura is the belief that the Bible alone is the only source of guidance and rules.
The rest of the first paragraph has more to do with relativism.
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ajcstr
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I attended a few Protestant Bible studies. One was on Romans which I found very interesting and the other I believe was 1 John. Very striking on how the focus is on different parts of the scripture than a Catholic Bible Study would emphasize. Bible Study CAN be a problem if 1) the Catholic is not firmly rooted in how the Church interprets Scripture and why. 2) if its known you are a Catholic there could possibly be some comments directed at you in a roundabout way. My favorite was “If there is anybody here who is not saved we have people here that can help you”.
It really shouldn’t but I’m sure its possible.
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Contarini
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That’s nonsense. It is indeed against canon law to receive communion in churches lacking apostolic succession (which would include most non-Catholic churches except for the Orthodox). Whether disobeying canon law is necessarily a “mortal sin” is another question that perhaps we don’t need to debate here (but we can if you want to).
Non-Eucharistic participation in non-Catholic worship, however, is positively encouraged by the Church. See the Principles and Norms on Ecumenism, a document which many folks here seem to ignore entirely. I admit that this document focuses particularly on special services for unity, and further that Cardinal Arinze, then head of the Congregation for Divine Worship, in a Q & A discouraged a Catholic from playing the organ regularly (and thus, by implication, from other regular participation) in a non-Catholic service. So arguably my statement above is a bit too general and the guidance from the Vatican could be said to be mixed. But certainly it is not a mortal sin to worship with Protestants, and much less to engage in Bible study with them.
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Contarini
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In most Protestant churches, that is not the understanding of communion. When Catholics say this, they are imposing a Catholic understanding on Protestants.
For most Protestants, receiving communion is an expression of faith in Christ, not agreement with all the teachings of a particular church. Methodists, in particular, regularly proclaim that the Lord’s Supper is Christ’s Table, not the table of the Methodist Church, and Episcopalians often say similar things. (These are the two Protestant traditions I have most contact with.)
I think we may have talked before about the way the use of a passive voice conveys a misleading authority on a statement.
Cardinal Arinze discouraged a Catholic, in a Q & A session, from regularly playing the organ in a Protestant church. That is certainly a weighty opinion coming from the then-Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship. But “Cardinal Arinze has discouraged” is a bit less imposing than “it is discouraged.”
Edwin
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Contarini
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These aren’t denominations but broad categories. “Evangelical” and “Born Again” basically mean the same thing. Not all of them use the “power charisms.” The term for such Christians is “Charismatic.” Both “Pentecostal” and “Charismatic” are subsets of evangelical/Born Again Christians. And of course, as you note, there are Charismatic Catholics.
It really depends. Pentecostals are often very anti-Catholic, but not always. People who talk a lot about being “born again” may judge Catholics to be not truly “born again” because they don’t use all the “right” code language. Evangelicals are a very broad category, and many of them these days are very ecumenical. Charismatics, in contrast to the more traditional Pentecostals, tend to be very ecumenical, at least toward those who show the “gifts of the Spirit.”
As I understand it (and I am only newly received into the Church, after a long struggle occasioned mostly by my desire not to separate from my fellow Christians who are not Catholic), such ecumenical prayer and Bible Study is in principle encouraged by the Church ,though there are cautionary voices about regularly engaging in non-Catholic worship. In other words, there’s somewhat of a mixed message coming out of the Vatican, but such actions are certainly not clearly forbidden and on the whole it seems to me that most of the messages in recent decades are positive. (That may be my bias.)
Catholics are Christians. By inadvertently using this mistaken language, you have demonstrated the reason why I believe that the true scandal is in not participating. By keeping themselves separate from other Christians, Catholics send the message that the things that separate them from other Christians are more important than the things that unite them. That is not an orthodox message to send. That is the great scandal.
Jesus is the heart of the Faith. Jesus is the heart of Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox Christianity. Jesus is more important than all the things that divide us.
That being said, you should be alert for unorthodox ideas that may be smuggled in under the claim that they are “just Christian.” Many Protestants assume certain things to be “Christian” that are really distortions of the faith introduced in the 16th century. For instance, you may hear them say casually, “Of course all sins are equal in gravity,” which is not true. So discernment and a strong rooting in the Catholic Faith are very important. And try to find communities of evangelical Protestants who are genuinely open to Catholic perspectives, willing to learn from you and not just to acknowledge grudgingly that maybe you just might be a Christian if you meet their sectarian standards.
Edwin
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Peter_J
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The Vatican forgot to check with forum members before publishing it.
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MaryHelp777
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Haha, that’s funny, that roundabout comment,
Catholics are baptised at birth, receive Our Lord’s Body.and Blood at First Communion, and at confirmation make Baptismal Vows to Jesus, (three Sacraments of initiation)
The Apostles were given the Catholic Faith by Jesus Himself and later also.from.the Holy Spirit, the Apostles.wrote a historical document called.the Didache which clearly outlines the church as the.catholic church we have today with the Sacraments, they passed all their teachings received to.the Church Fathers (who have extensive historical writings), who passed this to the Early Christians. Which has been passed down for 2017 years in the Catholic Church
Amen
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Peter_J
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I’m just saying.The Vatican forgot to check with forum members before publishing it.
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adf417
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Hi Edwin, my opion on this is a yes and no!
Yes if you are speaking in a Protestant vacuum where there is only one Catholic partaking and ALL other non-Catholics see it your way, this “could” the case.
No if…
Scenario #1, If there is one non-Catholic in the bunch who believes as they are taught in their own communion but understands Catholic teaching in that there is “worship” involved with a Catholic understanding and they witness a Catholic partaking without clarifing with this Catholic, it is easly conceivable how this non-Catholic may get the wrong idea of what the Catholic is perceiving in his mind at the time and jump to conclusions of idolatry on the part of the Catholic.
Scenario #2, If there are multiple Catholics in this service and one choses to partake in the good conscience. It still can confuse the other Catholic who does not partake and not fully understand the Catholic church teaching on the differences.
I think the church’s teaching is justified from both the protective and non-confusion positions.
Peace!!!
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adf417
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…again
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exnihilo
Guest
I think you are right that most Protestant churches would have ‘open’ communion and therefore not attach the same significance to it the Catholic Church would. But is this a more modern position? It seems to me Protestants themselves have over time become more accepting of different Protestant groups. Would they have more commonly practiced closed communion in the past?
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ConfusedLucy
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I go to a weekly non-Catholic Christian group. I am upfront about being Catholic and its never been a problem. I don’t think the Catholic bunker attitude is sustainable anymore to be honest.
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Peter_J
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What have you got against Archie?
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MaryHelp777
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Have you found nice Christian friends in that Christian group?
Ever attended other Sunday services with them?
I was at a Protestant Mass once, besides all the singing, and the use of the Our Father and Glory Be, and Bible,
It felt so empty:
- no True Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist (which even St Paul wrote about in the Bible, and which Jesus spoke of in His preaching and at the Last Supper),
-no priest with Jesus authority to forgive sin (an authority He gave to the apostles before the Ascension),
-No presence of the saints or Our Lady, (our Lady who is mentioned in Revelation as the one who God has chosen to crush the head of the serpent, just like God chose St Michael to cast Satan to hell, the intercession of saints is mentioned in Revelation as bowls filled before Gods throne, Jesus Himself accepted the intercession of Moses and Elijah when God sent them to Him on Mount Sinai, Jesus also accepted the intercession of an angel who God sent to comfort Him in the Garden of Gethsemene), Catholics don’t worship the saints but we biblically accept and ask for them to pray for us,
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TK421
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@OP:
There aren’t explicit instructions given on how to handle this sort of thing. There isn’t a comprehensive rulebook sitting in the library for the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith that tells us when we can and can’t attend a protestant event or a Muslim event or a non-Catholic event. There are a few things that are cut and dry, such as never receiving protestant communion or a protestant simulacrum of communion, but most of it falls under the realm of prudence.
We might say we had " a feeling" of an event being empty, or a feeling of an event being Spirit filled, but both of these are not a guide because feelings are not based on vice or virtue, but only on emotion. We might feel empty at a Catholic Mass but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a valid & holy Mass.
Generally, most will advise that attending a protestant study is frequently problematic because protestant study - by nature of being protestant - is based on the interpretation of the individual, or the interpretation of X or Y pastor who is popular for the time being, and this is entirely contrary to Catholicism.
But, whoever says it is objectively, explicitly sinful is speaking beyond their authority and does not know their place. So much of it can depend on how the prayer group is structured and the dynamics that exist within that particular group of people. A prayer group would probably be far less problematic than a Bible study group.
Pray to God. Speak to your spiritual advisor/priest-confessor. Don’t use internet people as your final source.
There aren’t explicit instructions given on how to handle this sort of thing. There isn’t a comprehensive rulebook sitting in the library for the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith that tells us when we can and can’t attend a protestant event or a Muslim event or a non-Catholic event. There are a few things that are cut and dry, such as never receiving protestant communion or a protestant simulacrum of communion, but most of it falls under the realm of prudence.
We might say we had " a feeling" of an event being empty, or a feeling of an event being Spirit filled, but both of these are not a guide because feelings are not based on vice or virtue, but only on emotion. We might feel empty at a Catholic Mass but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a valid & holy Mass.
Generally, most will advise that attending a protestant study is frequently problematic because protestant study - by nature of being protestant - is based on the interpretation of the individual, or the interpretation of X or Y pastor who is popular for the time being, and this is entirely contrary to Catholicism.
But, whoever says it is objectively, explicitly sinful is speaking beyond their authority and does not know their place. So much of it can depend on how the prayer group is structured and the dynamics that exist within that particular group of people. A prayer group would probably be far less problematic than a Bible study group.
Pray to God. Speak to your spiritual advisor/priest-confessor. Don’t use internet people as your final source.
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