Catholic Anarchism

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Is being an Catholic Anarchist impossible?

The only thing I’ve found so far relevant to this is this (newadvent.org/cathen/01452a.htm), but it seems to be working with some bizarre definition of anarchism that isn’t really anarchism.

I think I’m an anarchist, but I’m willing to give it up if it contradicts Catholic belief.
 
Is being an Catholic Anarchist impossible?

The only thing I’ve found so far relevant to this is this (newadvent.org/cathen/01452a.htm), but it seems to be working with some bizarre definition of anarchism that isn’t really anarchism.

I think I’m an anarchist, but I’m willing to give it up if it contradicts Catholic belief.
Interesting thought…aspect to seek the Truth of our Faith.
How do you define it…source of your definition?..or is it a personal definition?
Pax Christi
 
Is being an Catholic Anarchist impossible?

The only thing I’ve found so far relevant to this is this (newadvent.org/cathen/01452a.htm), but it seems to be working with some bizarre definition of anarchism that isn’t really anarchism.

I think I’m an anarchist, but I’m willing to give it up if it contradicts Catholic belief.
According to the link given, anarchism is an evil and …there can be no family, no State, no Church, no society of any kind. The individual is to be the centre and determining power of everything… Thus, anarchism is definitely contradictory to Catholic believe.

Also, according to Merriam-Webster, Oxford, and Cambridge dictionaries, anarchism is the belief that there should be no formal laws from a formal government. The second sentence of the New Advent link you provided states the same thing as this. How do you define anarchism?
 
Interesting thought…aspect to seek the Truth of our Faith.
How do you define it…source of your definition?..or is it a personal definition?
Pax Christi
I pretty much define anarchy as a state of society with no government.
 
According to the link given, anarchism is an evil and …there can be no family, no State, no Church, no society of any kind. The individual is to be the centre and determining power of everything… Thus, anarchism is definitely contradictory to Catholic believe.

Also, according to Merriam-Webster, Oxford, and Cambridge dictionaries, anarchism is the belief that there should be no formal laws from a formal government. The second sentence of the New Advent link you provided states the same thing as this. How do you define anarchism?
No government, but I don’t think no government necessarily means no family, no State, no Church, or no society.
 
No government, but I don’t think no government necessarily means no family, no State, no Church, or no society.
Okay, then your definition more or less matches with what the three major dictionaries claim and what New Advent states. From my brief reading of the New Advent article, it seems to be indicating that this is what would happen in an anarchist environment, and not necessarily that that is what anarchists actually believe.
 
Okay, then your definition more or less matches with what the three major dictionaries claim and what New Advent states. From my brief reading of the New Advent article, it seems to be indicating that this is what would happen in an anarchist environment, and not necessarily that that is what anarchists actually believe.
I don’t think that’s necessarily an accurate depiction, but okay.

Do you believe that there is an inherent contradiction?
 
I pretty much define anarchy as a state of society with no government.
Government is still recognized as a good, as it helps to maintain the civil order (so long as it is working in the interest of the common good). We see things which this would contradict in Church teaching, beginning with the Gospels themselves–Jesus saying “render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s, and unto God’s that which is God’s” (Matthew 22,22) comes to mind. Here Jesus is emphasizing the importance of certain civil duties along with the duties of faith. Paul tells us to pray for our civil leaders, since all earthly power is ultimately derived from God (Romans 13, 1; cf. 2 Timothy 2, 3). In more recent times, we see the social teaching inaugurated by Leo XIII and continuing to the present day with Bl. John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI telling us the proper place of government. Also, the Catechism of the Catholic Church’s section on man in society is pretty clear on this as well: we need laws, and we need a government to make and preserve the rule of law.

So government is a civil good, and the Church has always affirmed this. The principle objection to anarchy would simply be that man is necessarily a communal being, and just because sometimes there are abuses of this communal nature in the form of repressive or inept governments or internal strife within communities does not necessarily negate the need for community and government. Just the opposite–it is a call for governments and communities to be more greatly ordered toward the common good.

-ACEGC
 
Government is still recognized as a good, as it helps to maintain the civil order (so long as it is working in the interest of the common good). We see things which this would contradict in Church teaching, beginning with the Gospels themselves–Jesus saying “render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s, and unto God’s that which is God’s” (Matthew 22,22) comes to mind. Here Jesus is emphasizing the importance of certain civil duties along with the duties of faith. Paul tells us to pray for our civil leaders, since all earthly power is ultimately derived from God (Romans 13, 1; cf. 2 Timothy 2, 3). In more recent times, we see the social teaching inaugurated by Leo XIII and continuing to the present day with Bl. John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI telling us the proper place of government. Also, the Catechism of the Catholic Church’s section on man in society is pretty clear on this as well: we need laws, and we need a government to make and preserve the rule of law.

So government is a civil good, and the Church has always affirmed this. The principle objection to anarchy would simply be that man is necessarily a communal being, and just because sometimes there are abuses of this communal nature in the form of repressive or inept governments or internal strife within communities does not necessarily negate the need for community and government. Just the opposite–it is a call for governments and communities to be more greatly ordered toward the common good.

-ACEGC
Thank you for your response.

What about Dorothy Day? I believe she was an anarchist.

Also, anarchy doesn’t mean a community can’t exist, it just means that the community cannot use force to make people do things, unlike the government which can. Community can be good, but governments have caused more trouble than I think they’ve solved.
 
Thank you for your response.

What about Dorothy Day? I believe she was an anarchist.

Also, anarchy doesn’t mean a community can’t exist, it just means that the community cannot use force to make people do things, unlike the government which can. Community can be good, but governments have caused more trouble than I think they’ve solved.
I was going to say that I think the Catholic Worker movement is somewhat anarchist. I used to consider myself anarchist. I think it can work in small groups but the larger they get the more difficult. Even getting consensus with 10 people can be incredible difficult and frustrating. Food Not Bombs is a good example of it working (not Catholic of course).

I’m not sure how to reconcile allegience to Rome with anarchism though.
 
Interesting thought…aspect to seek the Truth of our Faith.
How do you define it…source of your definition?..or is it a personal definition?
Pax Christi
Do you think it would be possible for you to just say you are Catholic and that you are unsatisfied with the current state of government?🤷
 
Anarchism, at its root, falls under the anti-establishment theory. Though you may view it simply as a belief in a system of existence without the Government (big ‘G’), it truly is a rebellion against all government (little ‘g’), or any institution (whether formal or not) that seeks to create rules / codes which its members / citizens must abide by.

So, even if your brand of anarchy focuses solely on the Government, what does that really mean? While flawed, the purpose of the government is to protect the rights of its citizens. So you are, in effect, in favor of no protection of rights. This leaves a lawless state. Now, you suggest that communities can work towards this outside of Government, but what about when disputes occur? A person or group must be chosen to decide in these situations, and precedents are set. That group, or another, would also decide if any punishments should be administered. Lastly, it is then inevitable that a group, whether the same or not, would project out, based on the precedents set, laws which prevented similar instances. And thus, you have your Executive, Judicial, and Legislative branches all over again.

If you truly mean to do away with those, you make each person responsible for their own rights. However, that means you can never prosecute crimes, seek damages, etc, because you have removed all authority but one’s own. This desire is ultimately rooted in selfishness, as the direct result of the system is putting one’s own will above that of every other. This is clearly not compatible with Catholic teaching, as Christ Himself recognized the importance of earthly authority, although it should properly honor and submit to Divine Authority.

Lastly, on a much simpler idea, how could an anarchist ever respect the authority of God if they are entirely against recognizing any authority at all? Not saying this is necessarily your brand of anarchism, but it is the true nature of anarchism in general. And following that line, it only could lead to a self-centered paganism or atheism…
 
Thank you for your response.

What about Dorothy Day? I believe she was an anarchist.

Also, anarchy doesn’t mean a community can’t exist, it just means that the community cannot use force to make people do things, unlike the government which can. Community can be good, but governments have caused more trouble than I think they’ve solved.
I do not believe Dorothy Day was an anarchist, she was much more a communist/socialist before her conversion as to her beliefs.

As to your original question. It seems highly unlikely anarchism (according to your definition, which seems to be inline with the link you provided, just a popularized version) can in any way be compatible with Catholicsm.

The Church teaches that that
  • It is useful for laws to be framed by men (Summa, Question 95 article 1)
  • Human law should be framed by the community (Summa, Question 96, article 1)
  • human law should suppress those vices “from which it is possible for the majority to abstain … and without the prohibition of which human society could not be maintained: thus human law prohibits murder, theft and such like”. (Summa, QUestion 96, article 2)
  • If a human law is just - it is binding to a man’s conscience" (Summa, Question 96, article 3)
  • THe notion of law is two things : first, that it is a rule of human acts; secondly, that it has coercive power. (Summa, Question 96, article 5)
Or look at the need for the enforcement of private property, how would that happen. Leo XIII said tells us "For, every man has by nature the right to possess property as his own. " (Reum Novarum, paragraph 6). Not only a right, but it is essential to mankind’s dignity:

“And on this very account - that man alone among the animal creation is endowed with reason - it must be within his right to possess things not merely for temporary and momentary use, as other living things do, but to have and to hold them in stable and permanent possession; he must have not only things that perish in the use, but those also which, though they have been reduced into use, continue for further use in after time” (Leo XIII, paragraph 6)

How can this ever be implemented in an anarchist society when considering man’s fallen nature?
 
To many of the uninformed/uneducated youth, the idea of anarchism represents total freedom. Unfortunately, without governmental rules, the individual would fall under societal pressures that are far more severe than the laws and rules of most modern Western governments.
The free-est place I ever lived in is Richmond, Virginia. There, one is free to do anything they want or say anything - as long as it is done in private. But woe betide the person who does something in public that causes horses to shie or ladies to faint!
They do not have a crime called “disturbing the peace”. Their law is “causing or committing a public outrage”!
 
I consider myself an Anarchist…and I’m completely Catholic.

I just don’t like politics…I don’t think the government should rule over the things they do. I do believe people should make their own choices for themself. I’ve never seen or heard of a politician that I really have respect for.

When I say that I’m an anarchist, people say “Oh, you don’t believe in God?” so people have a pretty narrow window of Anarchy. I very well to believe in God, and believe he should be the only one in control.
 
I consider myself an Anarchist…and I’m completely Catholic.

I just don’t like politics…I don’t think the government should rule over the things they do. I do believe people should make their own choices for themself. I’ve never seen or heard of a politician that I really have respect for.

When I say that I’m an anarchist, people say “Oh, you don’t believe in God?” so people have a pretty narrow window of Anarchy. I very well to believe in God, and believe he should be the only one in control.
Sneaux, How do you respond to Aquinas’s arguments in favor of human law? As a Catholic, do you think the Church should abolish all canon law? Do you reject Pope Leo XIII’s great encyclical Rerum Novarum? How should society deal with crimes such as murder? How does a society defend itself from an unjust armed invasion?

All serious questions. Your statement that only God should be in control sounds nice; but how does it work in the world God has established where we have free will; the world that is now fallen and corrupt?
 
I pretty much define anarchy as a state of society with no government.
Anarchy is not an option in Catholic Social Doctrine…Principle of Solidarity…as I can determine.
Pax Christi
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
SECOND EDITION
V. THE AUTHORITIES IN CIVIL SOCIETY
2234 God’s fourth commandment also enjoins us to honor all who for our good have received authority in society from God. It clarifies the duties of those who exercise authority as well as those who benefit from it.
Duties of civil authorities
2235 Those who exercise authority should do so as a service. "Whoever would be great among you must be your servant."41 The exercise of authority is measured morally in terms of its divine origin, its reasonable nature and its specific object. No one can command or establish what is contrary to the dignity of persons and the natural law.
2236 The exercise of authority is meant to give outward expression to a just hierarchy of values in order to facilitate the exercise of freedom and responsibility by all. Those in authority should practice distributive justice wisely, taking account of the needs and contribution of each, with a view to harmony and peace. They should take care that the regulations and measures they adopt are not a source of temptation by setting personal interest against that of the community.42
2237 Political authorities are obliged to respect the fundamental rights of the human person. They will dispense justice humanely by respecting the rights of everyone, especially of families and the disadvantaged.
The political rights attached to citizenship can and should be granted according to the requirements of the common good. They cannot be suspended by public authorities without legitimate and proportionate reasons. Political rights are meant to be exercised for the common good of the nation and the human community.
The duties of citizens
2238** Those subject to authority should regard those in authority as representatives of God, who has made them stewards of his gifts:43 "Be subject for the Lord’s sake to every human institution**. . . . Live as free men, yet without using your freedom as a pretext for evil; but live as servants of God."44 Their loyal collaboration includes the right, and at times the duty, to voice their just criticisms of that which seems harmful to the dignity of persons and to the good of the community.
2239 **It is the duty of citizens to contribute along with the civil authorities to the good of society in a spirit of truth, justice, solidarity, and freedom. **The love and service of one’s country follow from the duty of gratitude and belong to the order of charity. Submission to legitimate authorities and service of the common good require citizens to fulfill their roles in the life of the political community.
2240 Submission to authority and co-responsibility for the common good make it morally obligatory to pay taxes, to exercise the right to vote, and to defend one’s country:
Pay to all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.45
[Christians] reside in their own nations, but as resident aliens. They participate in all things as citizens and endure all things as foreigners. . . . They obey the established laws and their way of life surpasses the laws. . . . So noble is the position to which God has assigned them that they are not allowed to desert it.46
**The Apostle exhorts us to offer prayers and thanksgiving for kings and all who exercise authority, “that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way.”**47
2241 The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him.
Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens.
2242 The citizen is obliged in conscience not to follow the directives of civil authorities when they are contrary to the demands of the moral order, to the fundamental rights of persons or the teachings of the Gospel. Refusing obedience to civil authorities, when their demands are contrary to those of an upright conscience, finds its justification in the distinction between serving God and serving the political community. "Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s."48 “We must obey God rather than men”:49
When citizens are under the oppression of a public authority which oversteps its competence, they should still not refuse to give or to do what is objectively demanded of them by the common good; but it is legitimate for them to defend their own rights and those of their fellow citizens against the abuse of this authority within the limits of the natural law and the Law of the Gospel.50
2243 Armed resistance to oppression by political authority is not legitimate, unless all the following conditions are met: 1) there is certain, grave, and prolonged violation of fundamental rights; 2) all other means of redress have been exhausted; 3) such resistance will not provoke worse disorders; 4) there is well-founded hope of success; and 5) it is impossible reasonably to foresee any better solution.
 
I’ve struggled with this a long time, myself, at times considering myself an anarchist, too.

I think there are some basic premises that should be established, though –
  1. Do we keep in mind that all interactions are between individuals? That government, corporations, law, nations, etc, are abstract constructs?
  2. Do we account for man’s fallen nature in determining the form of our society?
  3. Do we allow for the protection of the innocent?
  4. Are we striving for a perfect society?
  5. What purpose are we trying to serve by creating an anarchist society?
I see a lot of recurring themes in anarchist thinking, the almost extreme idealization of an anarchist society. At the same time, we’re led down an equally dubious path, of assuming that people in government are the wisest and smartest of all people (taking a quick look at Congress should dispel that notion). We also assume that people in government are not self-serving and corrupt…this is a paradox, because some call for government because we need government to protect us from the lawless and corrupt, but government is made up of people who are no more perfect or flawless than anyone else.

The argument to extremes that anarchism sometimes entails implies to me that it is a philosophy which is ultimately grounded in the abstract, not the concrete. There are some tortuous arguments around protecting the rights of the unborn, as well as how to deal with roads, and so on. In this sense, it’s not radically different from Marxism that also strives to answer objections with ever more dubious abstractions. (this division is also a mark of Protestantism, as shown by the hundreds, if not thousands, of Protestant denominations that try to distinguish themselves through division)

If we considered the absence of government, would we also consider the great evils which might arise? (child exploitation comes readily to mind) In rejecting anarchism, do we consider what corrupt people in charge of an unrestrained state will bring? (political murder, oppression, looting all come to mind) Do we instead recognize the evils present in either extreme and work to try to provide fairness and relative freedom within a system?

And coming full circle, there is the question of being a Catholic Anarchist. I tend to equate it with being a Catholic Marxist, a Catholic Republican, Catholic Democrat, Catholic German, Catholic American, whatever. Are we trying to merge an earthly identity with our religious identity? Much is made, by opponents of the Church, of the great influence that the Church had over the medieval world, but this was when the idea of “Christendom” was still alive and well. People viewed themselves as Christians primarily and national identity, the way we understand it, was not even on the radar at the time (the French Revolution staked out this territory in a definitive way only at the expense of the Church by force). Do we accept that our faith is the primary arbiter in our lives and that everything else is second to it?

I hope that is some food for thought in wrestling with the question. I don’t care much for politics (seeing most people seeking political office as self-serving and looking for power), but I would fall somewhere between the libertarian and conservative groupings. Most crucial, I think the problems we have are not so much a product of the systems and organizations we have, but of the moral and ethical character of people administering them. After all, who was it – Madison, maybe? – that said a people could only remain free if they remained moral.
 
I don’t think that’s necessarily an accurate depiction, but okay.

Do you believe that there is an inherent contradiction?
I imagine the Church’s 2000 years of recording History would suggest that She knows what happens when government is removed (even willingly) from a civilized people.

From Lancer’s quote from the Catechism, it should be clear that it is a contradiction to be Catholic and an anarchist.
 
I imagine the Church’s 2000 years of recording History would suggest that She knows what happens when government is removed (even willingly) from a civilized people.

From Lancer’s quote from the Catechism, it should be clear that it is a contradiction to be Catholic and an anarchist.
It’s always a good reminder in discussions like these to remember how much wisdom and thought has gone into the positions of the Church, and that these ideas haven’t been developed haphazardly or in absence of real-world examples. 2000 years is a long time to study humanity. 🙂
 
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